patrick.net

Patrick says

That's the whole problem with this idea that posting prices will matter. You keep saying it will. How?

A lot of consumers either don't use insurance, or are within their deductible and therefore they WANT to shop around for a better price. Posting prices would help a lot.

bob2356 says

You can't have it both ways. Either doctors offices can tell you how much or they can't. Of course they can tell you how much. So why would I put my cash out of pocket, do all the work of submitting a superbill to the insurance company and then struggle to get paid for it when I can just let the doctor bill the insurance company? How much becomes the insurance companies problem not mine. Does it affect my deductible, not at all. Will it be less than my copay. No way. So why do it? That's the whole problem.

This is an interesting problem. There is legit extra expenses and risk of charging a bill to an insurance provider, which is why they are willing to cut your price if you pay in cash. Would it be legal to post 2 prices per procedure? If it was pure tit for tat, could healthcare providers post different prices for different insurance providers? I am imagining MRI's: "Obamacare policy, $1200, United Healthcare policy $900, cash $700"

Long story short, our govt interference in healthcare has destroyed its efficiency.

CBOEtrader says

Try being a doctor, and extend a 250 lb ghetto queen' s life as she eats her Cheetos and little Debbie donuts. Life expectancy is far more about life choices than health coverage.

Obama care was a huge step backwards, but we do still have the best doctors and most accessible healthcare in the world.

Exactly.

Now socialize the cost of keeping that fat ghetto welfare queen latifa alive for the next 30 years.

anon_4480e says

Patrick says

That's the whole problem with this idea that posting prices will matter. You keep saying it will. How?

A lot of consumers either don't use insurance, or are within their deductible and therefore they WANT to shop around for a better price. Posting prices would help a lot.

Feel free to quantify "a lot". What percentage of people don't use insurance and strictly pay cash for medical care? That aren't getting their care in the ER that is.

Deductibles rarely apply to routine visits, prescription drugs, or preventative treatment. How does the accounting work that being within the deductible makes it desirable to pay cash? If you pay cash then it doesn't go against the deductible. You would not only have to go shopping for prices but calculate if your total cash payments will exceed your deductible or not. Probably over multiple years. Which means you need to know exactly the course and length of your treatment would be, something that frequently only god knows Pretty complex stuff. How many people do you suppose will be doing this while being sick enough to go outside of routine visits? If they are that sophisticated then they are sophisticated enough to call doctors right now and ask prices.

I keep asking for nuts and bolts details of how this will save money. How many people, who they are, how the accounting would work, how much savings would actually be involved, etc., etc., etc... All I get is either platitudes or crickets chirping. But guaranteed that the next discussion of health care it will be posted again like some moony mantra chanted endlessly.

Posting prices will make the right wing the free market will fix everything think tanks happy, but it won't save any substantial money in the real world.

drB6 says

I did not mention race anywhere, so this can not be race-baiting in any way, shape, or form. And yes, it is Spanish-speaking people which sometimes do not learn English and form enclaves with interesting traditions.

Feel free to present examples of third generation Hispanics that don't speak English. I'll be waiting. and waiting, and waiting.

Try reading The Integration of Immigrants into American Society from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. Which utterly debunks this immigrants don't integrate nonsense. But hey it's tough when facts interfere with a good rant.

bob2356 says

Feel free to present examples of third generation Hispanics that don't speak English. I'll be waiting. and waiting, and waiting.

Looked up and I am wrong about 3rd generation - 2nd generation sometimes has problems with English but not 3rd. However, I am not wrong about affirmative action, and I am not race-biting. With respect to affirmative action, a rare place where it can be quantified is by looking at SAT scores for medical school acceptance by race. So for those topics you have a good leftist rant.

MCAT scores, not SAT scores.

drB6

Quality over Quantity

Always

Well if you don't like our healthcare then you are racist.


Hehehe it's really all Liberals have is calling everyone racists when they fail time and time again like they always do.
I'm a racist right now for pointing out their propensity for abject Failure.

Here is US life expectancy by race:

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/life-expectancy-by-re/

Whites live to about 78.9 years, blacks to 74.6. Honestly I thought the gap would be larger.

Also surprising that Hispanics live longer than whites at 82.8. Not surprised that Asians live to 86.5 though.

Patrick says

Also surprising that Hispanics live longer than whites at 82.8.

Interesting, given that Hispanics seem to be more overweight than whites. Perhaps, since they appear to be more family-oriented, they do not ship their elderly off to elderhouses to die, but keep them in family and so old people feel useful (look after grand-kids) and have some purpose to live.

Start with the AMA and Rockefeller. Since then American medicine has silo-ed to treatment only. Prevention isn't taught, isn't understood, and isn't profitable. The good news is everyone, EVERYONE can avoid going bankrupt, and start getting healthier right now! You just have to assume responsibility for yourself, start eating healthy, eliminate dangerous chemicals from your life, and exercise.

bob2356 says

You guys keep saying post prices, post prices. But why is anyone going to ;bother to look at them if the insurance company pays anyway? Crickets chirping every time I ask that.

@bob2356 If all providers had to stick to their own price list whether the patient has insurance or not, and all insurers had to treat every provider the same, then insurance rates would be a nice proxy for that price list.

So yes, we need a little bit more than published price lists. But publishing the list would still be a massive help in driving down costs, because people would in fact choose the better value, given that their insurer is going to cover only some fixed amount of any given billing code.

Look at it this way: if procedure X costs $1000 from one provider, and $2000 from another, and your insurer pays $700 for procedure X either way (treating all providers the same), then the provider who is more cost efficient at procedure X will win, and prices will fall.