patrick.net

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Or the explicitly Racist policies of Harvard, Princeton, etc. Because given SAT scores, there's no way they could have so few Asians except by deliberate deselection of them on purpose. And that's just the Asians that are US Citizens, not international applicants.

Yeah. It's just so confusing how asians succeeded where the black community could not considering blacks had these advantages.

- Spoke English natively
- Targeted grant and scholarship funding for "blacks" far outpaces those same programs for asians
- Smaller social circle
- Less representation at the local, state, and federal government.
- Benefited from affirmative action (as you pointed out affirmative action programs actually hurt asians)

Maybe it's not an opportunity problem, but something else.

drB6 says

Not all of them - Catholics are against, for example. Most of JESUS crowd will also be against contraceptives for 16 yr olds, ignoring fact that humans become sexually active even earlier, and that accidental pregnancies are probably more likely for teens. And religious people are, in general, in denial of reality - "abstinence before marriage" idea is pushed by them, completely ignoring the realities of human sexuality.
I have not seen any enthusiasm from "fiscal conservatives" about FREE part of free contraceptives as well, although in a long run, it would save a lot of money spent on incarceration.

A box of condoms is $2.94 at walmart. Maybe if you can't scrounge up $2.94 to have a LOT of sex, you shouldn't be having sex.

Contraceptive injection will work for months and they can screw around as much as they want, and anywhere they want, and is more effective with respect to everything other than STD prevention. Sex education is also needed and as far as I know, it is often shouted down by religious nuts. "Perhaps they should not have sex" we can agree on, but that will not happen, can not be legislated, and can not be controlled.

Considering most whites in this country arrived decades after the end of slavery and did not receive any free land, the author of the political cartoon you posted is either intentionally lying or unbelievably clueless. Or perhaps you think that Italian and Irish immigrants had that free white priviledge 1870 to 1930.

Oh, and also explain the success of Asians in the US.

Feux Follets says

In summary - all that minorities in inner city ghettos have to do to resolve their situation is to do as follows:

1. Vote GOP**

2. Graduate High School**

3. Get a Job**

4. Get Married**

5. Have Kids After Getting Married**

** required for safe passage to Middle Class America. (this is much much easier if you are white - a lot of things will get overlooked with a wink and a nod)

Anyone noticed those good paying jobs with benefits that would allow a high school graduate to work their way into supposed "Middle Class" status (I call it debt for life) are few and far between anymore and the ones that remain are disappearing as well.

And then there is this: (I know, I know - there is no racism in America, it's only Black against White racism now)

drB6 says

Contraceptive injection will work for months and they can screw around as much as they want, and anywhere they want, and is more effective with respect to everything other than STD prevention. Sex education is also needed and as far as I know, it is often shouted down by religious nuts. "Perhaps they should not have sex" we can agree on, but that will not happen, can not be legislated, and can not be controlled.

That's cruel joke. It cannot be controlled? So how do Asian families control it? They have an exceedingly low single parent rate. Let's not even talk about race, let's talk about the middle to upper class block of people who do not send themselves into poverty by having kids they can't afford.

Of fucking course it can be controlled.

What your statement is really saying is that poor inner city blacks are uneducated monkeys who can't control their base urges or afford a $3 box of condoms, at least not like middle to upper class blacks, whites, indians, who don't tax the welfare system and have too many kids.

If that's what you're saying, then fine. But now you're also suggesting we socialize the cost of their bad choices.

What does the taxpayer get back? Only the assurance that MAYBE these poor inner city blacks won't have kids that eventually become criminals and tax the system even more? How about we get something back that's actually tangible. If you get on an entitlement program, you have to satisfy certain criteria, let's call them goals. If you do not meet these goals, then you lose the social safety net and have to deal with the consequences of your choices. You know, like normal people.

Why can't we do that? What incentive do poor blacks have to get better? I put forth that there is no true incentive since the size of the welfare state has not only grown, but the percentage of blacks who are now dependent on it has sky rocketed in the past 5 decades. So something is obviously not working.

the idea that affirmative action even helps underpriveledged African Americans is laughable. Meanwhile, I teach in one of the richest towns in NJ. The blacks there are already part of the upper middle class. They instantly get accepted to schools like Princeton and Columbia. So people that have already assimilated get a free ticket to success. Meanwhile, the poor kids 2 towns over get no benefit.

Michael Jordan's kids will benefit from affirmative action before anyone that has the deck stacked against them ever will.

Goran_K says

But now you're also suggesting we socialize the cost of their bad choices.

We are socializing bad choices now, only it costs much more than my suggestion. Everything that has been done in last 50 years has made things worse, so perhaps something has to be changed. I suggest one thing that can be changed and is relatively cheap. "If you get on an entitlement program, you have to satisfy certain criteria, let's call them goals. If you do not meet these goals, then you lose the social safety net and have to deal with the consequences of your choices" - that is all fine and logical, but it likely will never happen. Even if it does happen, what will you do with kids born out of wedlock who are in families/single parent households that "have lost safety net"? Should they starve? Should state take them away? I do not know answers other than trying to decrease number of unplanned pregnancies.

All of this applies not only to black inner city kids, it applies also to many whites as well. The graph above shows that whites have similar and much faster increasing problems.

CovfefeButDeadly says

Considering most whites in this country arrived decades after the end of slavery and did not receive any free land, the author of the political cartoon you posted is either intentionally lying or unbelievably clueless.

Most white families in this country have had more than 3 generations to build wealth and knowledge. That wealth and knowledge should have been passed down. While my great grandparents were running businesses, most black people were decades away from being able to drink at the same water fountain as them. It's no surprise that black families are doing worse on average, and it could have a lot to do with historic inequality. It amazes me that this isn't somewhat obvious to people. True, there are individual white people who were not given much by their parents and made something of themselves. Same goes for black people. But the average black 30 yr old was raised with less than the average 30 yr old white person. They had worse schools, lower financial resources, and parents with lower education. One should expect that it would take many generations to wipe out the effect of Jim Crow.

drB6 says

that is all fine and logical, but it likely will never happen. Even if it does happen, what will you do with kids born out of wedlock who are in families/single parent households that "have lost safety net"? Should they starve? Should state take them away? I do not know answers other than trying to decrease number of unplanned pregnancies.

Why won't changes happen? That seems like you're saying society should just accept the cost of increasing and ineffective welfare entitlement programs. Why can't there be changes to the current system?

No one is saying "let kids starve", but how about a prison or work camp sentence for not following through until you pay back a certain amount of money via labor? I've seen teenage girls on freeways in California picking up garbage for repeated truancy. Why not for welfare queens who won't improve their situations?

anon_61c8a says

Most white families in this country have had more than 3 generations to build wealth and knowledge. That wealth and knowledge should have been passed down. While my great grandparents were running businesses, most black people were decades away from being able to drink at the same water fountain as them. It's no surprise that black families are doing worse on average, and it could have a lot to do with historic inequality. It amazes me that this isn't somewhat obvious to people. True, there are individual white people who were not given much by their parents and made something of themselves. Same goes for black people. But the average black 30 yr old was raised with less than the average 30 yr old white person. They had worse schools, lower financial resources, and parents with lower education. One should expect that it would take many generations to wipe out the effect of Jim Crow.

Asian families come into the United States all the time with no passed down wealth, no support system, and no solid grasp of English most of the time.

Why are they able to succeed where American born inner city blacks cannot?

Pretty much none of the white kids I grew up with had families who could give them ANYTHING! Anything beyond a basic education, three meals, and a part in the daily chores that is. Yet, as I’ve reconnected with them via Facebook, I’m finding success story after success story. Some haven’t succeeded, but the far greater portion who started life with nothing but a decent work ethic have done very well for themselves as they enter middle age. This group includes one black woman, half a dozen Latino people, and a couple asians. These especially have succeeded. This tells me that culture is the defining measure of success. Raise a kid right and they will probably do just fine. They might make some mistakes, hit some snags, and even fuck around for a bit, but the cultural indoctrination will pay off in the long run and they’ll find their way.

ThreeBays says

The rate of child birth among unmarried black women has declined significantly since 1965, all while the rate increased for white women. This graph counters the idea that more black women are having babies out of wed-lock to gain welfare than before.

That conclusion makes no sense. Birth rates for ALL minority households are down since the 1960s. Not just blacks.



This makes sense since as countries industrialize and become less agrarian, people have less kids as "labor", and have the amount of kids they want or can afford. The fact that they had 5 kids on the farm with a father around, and only 2 kids in the inner city as a single mother doesn't contradict anything I've presented.

Your graph does nothing to contradict the fact that a greater percentage of those black families that do end up having kids (whether it's 1 or 5) are doing so as single parent households. At least compared to asians, east indians, and even hispanics. In fact your graph puts a more succinct point on it, as black families have left their farms and joined the inner city core, they became more dependent on social services to survive. It's not a mistake that all the major inner cities are dominated by Democrat politicians.

Feux Follets says

What about welfare kings, they also exist and come in a variety of skin tones and live in assorted urban and suburban communities all over the country.

It's MUCH harder to qualify for Welfare if you're a male, you basically need a helluva medical paper trail.

Whereas a female can just have unprotected sex once. "You have to give me free shit, because I'm a mom now!"

Another great idea: You can't file for a no-fault divorce unless you can prove you won't qualify for AFDC/HUD Subsidies if you go ahead with it. Poverty programs should be for stuff (at least somewhat) beyond your control like job loss, permanent injury, etc.

Single and Divorced Mothers are the #1 by far, recipients of Social Programs. But more importantly, it's a statistical fact that they are strongly associated with bad outcomes for children, impoverishment generally, and high crime. Kids should be our #1 Concern.

Adults can grin and bear it, Kids shouldn't be put in worse situations because the parents "Just aren't happy anymore"

State Aid should also "Trickle Away" over time rather than be removed all at once if somebody on welfare gets a job.

ThreeBays says

Right, but non-marital births for blacks were already high in 1965 -- very high relatively speaking.

I never argued otherwise, but 27% in 1965 vs 76% in 2014 is nearly a three fold jump. That's clearly due to the welfare state.

CovfefeButDeadly says

Considering most whites in this country arrived decades after the end of slavery and did not receive any free land, the author of the political cartoon you posted is either intentionally lying or unbelievably clueless. Or perhaps you think that Italian and Irish immigrants had that free white priviledge 1870 to 1930.

Oh, and also explain the success of Asians in the US.

I have to agree with this. None of my ancestors had anything to do with slavery, and they definitely did not get free land, free labor, or free anything else in spite of being very poor. No one did any favors for them because they were white. They weren't even considered properly white until my parents' generation. They were Irish, Polish, and Jewish, and there were ethnic jokes about all of them. "An Irishman, a Polack, and a Jew go into a bar..." I don't see much of a difference between myself and recent Asian immigrants, who also don't get any favors.

The whole "white privilege" lie needs to be refuted with the truth. It's OK to be white.

Why is the graph of single mothers by race and INCOME missing? No one is fessing up to how many poor white trash babies are born to single mothers.

“White privilege” is an excuse lazy minorities use to justify their lack of accomplishment in life.

The senior analysts I worked with who were black or Cuban and making $275,000 salaries never complained about white privilege. I wonder why.

bob2356 says

No one is fessing up to how many poor white trash babies are born to single mothers.

White out-of-wedlock births to white women are around 40% today, less than the 70% black but a disaster compared to high single, low double digits of 55 years ago.

bob2356 says

white trash babies

The even sadder part of it is that many, maybe even the majority, aren't born to what would be called lower income, uneducated people but rather middle and upper income, educated people. What happened about 45 years ago was that behaviors that once were confined to the lower classes began to be taken on by the more upper class, upper income people.

Feux Follets says

It exists and it's okay to be white as well but never the less "white privilege" exists to this day just as ethnic or racial privilege exists in other countries.

Does "white privilege" extends to medical school and university admissions, where whites and Asians need substantially higher scores to get admitted compared to other races?

Goran_K says

A box of condoms is $2.94 at walmart. Maybe if you can't scrounge up $2.94 to have a LOT of sex, you shouldn't be having sex.

I's can't afford no condoms, said Shaniqua, adjusting her new $200 Hair Hat.

Seriously Guise, you'd be shocked how expensive weaves and wigs are.

Remember, we need our weaves, so burn down the Suburbs instead.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Goran_K says

A box of condoms is $2.94 at walmart. Maybe if you can't scrounge up $2.94 to have a LOT of sex, you shouldn't be having sex.

I's can't afford no condoms, said Shaniqua, adjusting her new $200 Hair Hat.

Seriously Guise, you'd be shocked how expensive weaves and wigs are.

Remember, we need our weaves, so burn down the Suburbs instead.

This is the maddening part, same for birth control. Most of these "poor" easily spend 50-100 times more per month total than on birth control for that month. If you love sex and can't spend a few percent of your total allowance on birth control then you shouldn't have it. Instead we're casting the freeloader net wider and wider and skew insurance premiums by demanding free birth control, because !wommyn!. Men and women who screw like rabbits without providing for their offspring should be forcibly neutered, that would be a far more effective leftist big-government policy, yielding big savings for the taxpayer in the long run.

Feux Follets says

There exists a subculture in ethnic Asian communities for those already born here as opposed to those just arriving who are considered less worthy than.

End native Asian privilege now!

Feux Follets says

It really does exist

I'm confused though. How come Asians don't seem to be suffering from white privilege keeping them down?

In any case, the idea of white privilege is useful to our globalist corporate overlords for dividing the working classes and preventing them from unifying as effective opposition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_conquer

I think it's less of loving sex, and more of collecting "milk money chits" (babies)...

mell says

If you love sex and can't spend a few percent of your total allowance on birth control then you shouldn't have it.

Having babies has become a paid profession...

Here's a thought exercise.

It's all about framing.

A shared characteristic tied to achievement, low crime, and general good outcome could be considered "Excellence".

When a cop stops a white guy with a wedding ring, driving a mid-range car, with a cup of coffee and some folders in the cupholder and front seat, chances are he's dealing with an excellent individual and there's little reason to bother looking for drugs or a TEC-9 with no serial number or suspect that the car is stolen.

Let's call it "White Excellence" or "Asian Excellence" or "Middle Class Excellence" or even "Western Excellence" instead.

How can we inspire minorities to achieve "White Excellence"?

But of course, if you root for the underdog, right or wrong, and are reflexively over-critical and bitter, you want to frame it in a negative light, you call this "White Privilege" and act as if it's special, unmerited achievement. You view commuting to a decent job in an owned vehicle and minding your own business is part of some conspiracy to dole out special unearned privilege. Whereas riding dirty with some crack in a stolen car is just getting back at "White Privilege" you are excluded from. If you don't want to be excluded, stop calling it "Acting White" and say "I wanna have White/Asian Excellence" and act the part?

There's a reason Asians are a "Model Minority" and Somalis aren't.

Can anybody guess what those things are?

Hint: They're both not white looking.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Somalis aren't

This is highly instructive:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

It appears that Asian Americans have YUUUUGE white privilege....Asian average income is 74,245, white 59,698.

drB6

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Here's a thought exercise.

It's all about framing.

A shared characteristic tied to achievement, low crime, and general good outcome could be considered "Excellence".

When a cop stops a white guy with a wedding ring, driving a mid-range car, with a cup of coffee and some folders in the cupholder and front seat, chances are he's dealing with an excellent individual and there's little reason to bother looking for drugs or a TEC-9 with no serial number or suspect that the car is stolen.

Let's call it "White Excellence" or "Asian Excellence" or "Middle Class Excellence" or even "Western Excellence" instead.

How can we inspire minorities to achieve "White Excellence"?

But of course, if you root for the underdog, right or wrong, and are reflexively over-critical and bitter, you want to frame it in a negative light, you call this "White Privilege" and act as if it's special, unmerited achievement. You view commuting to a decent job in an owned ...

What the fuck

Instead of "White Privilege", can I simply be addressed as "Your Excellency"?

Feux Follets says

Perhaps not on an individual family level

This is where racists of every stripe fall down. Whenever you retreat from the individual level to try to make rules for people based on the “average black person” or the “average white person” you’re being racist as fuck and injustice follows hard in your footsteps.
Next thing you know, you’re using a 200 year old “one drop” rule to decide whether someone is disadvantaged or privileged, or did you forget that miscegenation is no longer against the law? America is full of wonderfully diverse people who are combinations of two, three, or even more ethnic groups. Stop making racial judgements about us!

Quigley says

200 year old “one drop” rule to decide whether someone is disadvantaged or privileged

This is interesting. I did genetic analysis and I somehow have "trace Native American heritage", specifically from area of Carribean/Venezuela/Colombia, + reasonable amount of North Siberian Asian heritage. I guess I qualify for affirmative action by one drop rule? In any case, I should qualify more than a well-known Senator who is Native American only by hearsay and her imagination.

I think "American Excellence" is the best term.

Anytime I hear or read "White Privilege', I'm substitutiing "American Excellence"

"If only people would realize the advantages their American Excellence gives them." hahahahahah

Excellence and Privilege are not synonymous

Are we going further down the Orwellian path where words have no meaning, and truth is an afterthought, as we abandon Free Speech?

Or should words have meaning?

errc says

Excellence and Privilege are not synonymous

It's a difference in Framing. "White Privilege" is a way to emphasize the OUTCOME of championing a work ethic, handing down the results of that work ethic (inheriting property/money), and putting a high value on accomplishment, as being a negative thing, almost "Unearned Advantage." Focusing solely on the relative outcomes between those with "White Privilege" and those who don't.

"American Excellence" celebrates those values and correctly frames the "Privilege" of Whites as the result of adoption of success inducing values.

The Malays think the Chinese have "Privilege", because Malays emphasize living the Good Life over sacrifice and academic accomplishment. Really, the Chinese have a form of "Excellence" they practice that makes them better off than most Malays.

The fact that most Asian ethnicities are generally are wealthier than Whites in the US creates "Problems" for the "White Privilege" framing.

I invite all Americans to adopt "American Excellence" rather than falling into the fail trap that is "I ain't gonna act White."

Don't apologize because your ancestors worked hard and left you both advantageous values and often material wealth.

Somebody explain to me how going from the inability to launch a suborbital rocket to landing a man on the moon in about 20 years has anything to do with slavery that ended 100 years before. It's not like Blacks in Africa had rocket science and we enslaved them to build the Saturn V.

It's a difference in Framing. "White Privilege" is a way to emphasize the OUTCOME of championing a work ethic, handing down the results of that work ethic (inheriting property/money), and putting a high value on accomplishment, as being a negative thing, almost "Unearned Advantage." Focusing solely on the relative outcomes between those with "White Privilege" and those who don't.

"American Excellence" celebrates those values and correctly frames the "Privilege" of Whites as the result of adoption of success inducing values.

———————

You’re responding to the issue with faulty assumptions. Priviliges are granted to those who didn’t do anything to deserve them, hence ‘unearned’.

Excellence is something one accomplishes by working hard for it, hence why Excellence cannot be given, but must be earned.

Two completely different things. Not sure why anyone would attempt to muddy the waters by conflating them as if they ars the same

errc says

It's a difference in Framing. "White Privilege" is a way to emphasize the OUTCOME of championing a work ethic, handing down the results of that work ethic (inheriting property/money), and putting a high value on accomplishment, as being a negative thing, almost "Unearned Advantage." Focusing solely on the relative outcomes between those with "White Privilege" and those who don't.

"American Excellence" celebrates those values and correctly frames the "Privilege" of Whites as the result of adoption of success inducing values.

———————

You’re responding to the issue with faulty assumptions. Priviliges are granted to those who didn’t do anything to deserve them, hence ‘unearned’.

Excellence is something one accomplishes by working hard for it, hence why Excellence cannot be given, but must be earned.

Two completely different things. Not sure why anyone would attempt to muddy the waters by conflating them as if they ars the same

How was the privilege given to whites in the first place? Makes no sense, it had to be earned at some point, nothing comes from nothing. Truth is that Caucasians advanced technology, science and standard of living as well as human rights for everybody to a degree previously unmatched by any civilization. Of course people born into this modern society may mostly benefit from it without having put in anything so far, but that privilege is open to everybody, and more so to some (affirmative action, women's programs etc.). To insinuate that there is what they call "systemic" racism (because they cannot come up with anything tangible wrt hard data) is ludicrous.

mell says

errc says

It's a difference in Framing. "White Privilege" is a way to emphasize the OUTCOME of championing a work ethic, handing down the results of that work ethic (inheriting property/money), and putting a high value on accomplishment, as being a negative thing, almost "Unearned Advantage." Focusing solely on the relative outcomes between those with "White Privilege" and those who don't.

"American Excellence" celebrates those values and correctly frames the "Privilege" of Whites as the result of adoption of success inducing values.

———————

You’re responding to the issue with faulty assumptions. Priviliges are granted to those who didn’t do anything to deserve them, hence ‘unearned’.

Excellence is something one accomplishes by working hard for it, hence why Excellence cannot be given, but must be earned.

Two completely different things. Not sure why anyone would attempt to muddy t...

White Collar White guys sniff all the coke. No resources spent on harassing and jailing them.

Black kids express entrepreneurial spirit: sell crack cocaine to all the white who prefer smoking to insuffocating on the Free market! 20- life in prison with massive amounts of resources spent against them and their Small Businesses

White kids deal dope, white kids die en masse from dope: we must help thrm. Rehab and wrist slap.

There is no Racism here. Only White Excellence

errc says

White Collar White guys sniff all the coke. No resources spent on harassing and jailing them.

That's because they have money, not because they're white. Blacks with tons of money get away with everything as well, see OJ. Money is the divider in the US - for better or worse - not race.

Not that it matters, but are any users here actually black? (not anon users - you guys don't count) Kind of interested if any of you are. Won't change my opinion either way as I have a tonnnnnnnnn of black friends so I truly know the in's and out's of blacks like no other white guy.