patrick.net

TwoScoopsPlissken says

My god Marcus, reading comprehension?!

As if you've taken the time to comprehend anything I've said.

I've had better arguments with a wall.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

This isn't choice, this is my way or the highway, where "my way" seems to be entirely arbitrary.

"It's about different methods."

"Here is a concrete example of a kid using the teacher's 'array' method twice and she marks each one off, even though he alternates the larger and smaller number to make the groups. It's like she's just being an arbitrary asshole using some cloudy cuckoo rules she invents on the fly."

"Ugh, it's Like talking to a wall."

The Common Core standards designers included not a single person except one who was a Math PhD who taught college students in engineering, physics, and well math. This former NASA Consultant and current Sanford Professor was outvoted by Ed.D theory mongers pushing the same collaborative "facilitator" student guided bullshit they've been harping on for 30 years. So what if it works for Asians, what are the Koreans, Japanese and Chinese up to now, 4 hours a night of Math Cram School (rote memorization).

The bizzarre grading of one stupid teacher is not an indictment of the curriculum. There have always been elementary school teachers that do a bad job with Math. This is no different with common core curriculum. This has nothing to do with what I've been arguing, which is the value of decomposing small number for adding small numbers such as
7 + 6. IF a kid doesn't remember, they could use their fingers, but the patterns are nice and are not new. Years ago I'm sure many good teachers taught the same thing using a number line. It's a visualization thing. Maybe its more for visual learners, many of whom are going to be good at Math in the long run becasue of the visual aspects of a lot of higher Math.

IF you know where 8 is on the number line relative to 10, then it's obvious that 8 + 4 is 12. It's possible to "know" this, without memorizing it, and without counting on your fingers. It's really the same as the method at the top of this thread.

Everyone is going to know 8 + 4 is eventually anyway (YOU WOULD THINK) but in this calculator age, it is actually possible for a kid to never learn it. I've seen this happen, A LOT !! Or they sort of know, but want to confirm it with their calculator instead of their mind.

And since you have gone on to other arguments, without conceding anything, I will repeat, adding 8 + 5, or 7 + 6, or 8 + 6 are actually subroutines in the traditional method.

66
+88

To do this using the traditional method, you must know that 6 plus 8 is 14 and that 7 + 8 is fifteen.

It's not steak or orange juice. You can have both. Although red wine sounds like a better combo for steak.

Here you go again. Get a taste of reality.

https://www.engageny.org/resource/grade-1-mathematics-module-1-topic

Again. Reality. That is if you want to know what first grade curriculum is actually like these days,

I'm not totally a fan of everything about common core. But what it's about more than anything is standardizing, at a reasonable level so that all states are doing more or less the same thing. IF it goes away, which might be good, some good will have come from getting mediocre and weak teachers focused more on concepts and problem solving. Not that there isn't a place for drills.

The truth is that MAth scores haven't gone down significantly in the US over the decades. And I take some of the claims above about children being less prepared for kindergarten above with a grain of salt. If true it may be due to parenting. A lot of kids used to not even go to preschool. Myself included. So if a kid isn't prepared for kindergarten, isn't that becasue the parents don't read to them and interact with them enough ? Or perhaps too many children are under nourished ? Or otherwise picking up on the stress that comes with poverty ?

marcus says

It's not steak or orange juice. You can have both.

But not when you lack the cognitive development at 6 years old. Until then, you're better off with Concrete Methods like memorization and simple visual/manipulative counting.

Marcus, I don't know how many ways I can say this.

The teachers are insisting on the number bond method, not saying "Whatever works for you". Again, the example I gave of the kid being right, and even using an array as was asked, but for some reason the teacher is marking both answers off, even though the answers are absolutely correct. If number bonds are a method, then stop insisting kids only use that method. Either it's a free choice to use whatever works for the kid or not. There's tons of evidence put out by angry parents on the Inter Tubes that teachers are pushing the Number Bond woo woo to the exclusion of everything else.

I even saw a kid's specifically correct answer marked "wrong" and the teacher demanding he estimate it with round numbers. The instruction was to get as close to the correct answer as possible, and the kid got the exact answer (using the time tested old fart methods). Who knew it was a key point in STEM where approximate answers are superior to exactly correct results. Sure is training kids to be great at STEM.

The reason we hold off on algebra and other shit until around age 10 or 11 is the same reason Irony and Sarcasm begin to make their appearance in English Books around that age. Kids have an almost non-existent ability to grasp that kind of thinking until just before puberty.

The hardcoded, biological fact is that any sort of beyond basic abstract reasoning doesn't begin until about 10 years old. Until then it's all concrete-based tasks.

If human psychology/neuroscience knows anything, it's the stages of childhood development. It's too bad NCTM thinks they can front-load "Mathematical Thinking" on 1st and 2nd Graders. Or that Asian Group Work is compatible with Western Culture despite decades of rejection by American Society. It's not gonna happen, give it up already and stop torturing parents and kids with the Facilitator/Group Work Extreme Constructivism.

Facilitators are for HS/College/Beyond level work. When you're old enough to think abstractly and create and pursue own goals. Not for kids. Young Children mimic adults. Learning Base10 is not the same as learning to walk.

Finnish teachers are stumped by Common Core 1st Grade Questions, such as the legendary "Pucks? Pennies? in a Teacup" question (Copyright PearsonTM Education). Kids are being asked to read questions that are light years ahead of what they read for reading class. And Finland beats the shit out of the US in Math.
http://taughtbyfinland.com/first-grade-math-tests-in-american-and-finnish-classrooms/

We'll be the only nation in the world that has a standard that has kids in the 1st Grade counting to 100. Straight from horses mou---
http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/K/CC/A/1/

Shit, that's the KINDERGARTEN standard. Holy Fuck Me.

The problem with US Education isn't K-6, it's 6-12. HS students in most states can get away with just one or two math classes, a far cry from Elementary where they have math regularly.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

The teachers are insisting on the number bond method, not saying "Whatever works for you"

OH noes !

Don't tell me they are actually forcing 6 year olds to know that 5 can be thought of as 4 + 1, or 3 + 2,

THE HORROR !!!!

OH my god ! What are they doing to the children !! Tell me they aren't actually forcing young kids to contemplate that 7 is 5 + 2, and yet it's also 4 + 3, or even 6 + 1 !!

What the FUCK. Don't they know that the children aren't ready for that level of abstraction ?

TwoScoopsPlissken says

HS students in most states can get away with just one or two math classes

Wrong. Not these days. Years ago yes.