patrick.net
An Antidote to Corporate Media
1,193,892 comments by 13,881 users - Ceffer, richwicks online now
invite response« First « Previous Comments 41 - 48 of 48 Search these comments
41
Goran_K
2018 May 22, 4:39pm
Goran_K
2018 May 22, 4:39pm
Heraclitusstudent says
There is truth to that.
But there is a movement in the GOP for a more moderate libertarian form of government. This is headed by guys like Rand Paul, Laura Ebke, Justin Amash, etc. These people are more foundational constitutional politicians as opposed to guys like Paul Ryan, Mccain, and Romney.
You don't have this same movement in the DNC, in fact, you have more radicalism in the pursuit of collectivism (Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, anyone in the California Assembly who is a Democrat). This ideology leads to bigger and more powerful government and less individual freedom, proven time and time again over the past 2 millennia.
In fact, I challenge anyone to find 5 elected DNC politicians who primarily advocate for smaller government policies.
That's why I believe the left is far more dangerous, there is more collectivist thought and much less internal dissent. Luckily their power was severely checked in 2016.
There are still republicans who think Reagan is the model for GOP politicians, and anything on the left is communism. These people live 40 yrs in the past and are as lost as those on the left who believe Democrats actually want to help American working class families. Things are just no longer cut out that way.
IMHO
There is truth to that.
But there is a movement in the GOP for a more moderate libertarian form of government. This is headed by guys like Rand Paul, Laura Ebke, Justin Amash, etc. These people are more foundational constitutional politicians as opposed to guys like Paul Ryan, Mccain, and Romney.
You don't have this same movement in the DNC, in fact, you have more radicalism in the pursuit of collectivism (Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, anyone in the California Assembly who is a Democrat). This ideology leads to bigger and more powerful government and less individual freedom, proven time and time again over the past 2 millennia.
In fact, I challenge anyone to find 5 elected DNC politicians who primarily advocate for smaller government policies.
That's why I believe the left is far more dangerous, there is more collectivist thought and much less internal dissent. Luckily their power was severely checked in 2016.
42
HowdyThere
2018 May 22, 5:28pm
Goran, what policies of Bernie Sander or Elizabeth Warren do you consider to be radical collectivism?
43
mell
2018 May 22, 6:40pm
Goran_K says
I supported Rand Paul but it was clear he isn't going to win. As explained many times, Libertarians are especially vulnerable to leftoid venom of bullshit spewed all over them since they tend to be more docile when attacked, similar to mainstream Recucklicans, but with much better constitutional policies. Trump is neither mainstream Republican nor Libertarian nor right-wing religious Republican, you can't put him in a bucket, but he runs tight game and gives zero fucks about his political career - coming from a highly profitable private enterprise - which is the secret of his success. He like no other can put a mirror in front of the leftoids and mainstream Republicans, can agree and amplify (since he is not a politician so it doesn't put him in a bad light) in light of corruption allegations and put his yuge fingers into their wounds, right where they are vulnerable: they are all politicians who essentially have done nothing to curb higher taxes and immigration while lining their own pockets and (a specialty of the left) alienating and vilifying the common man, no matter what spin they put out on the floor.
HowdyThere says
I'd start with their stances on taxes and immigration as well as discrimination against straight white males in the spirit of collectivism. Well for Warren that backfired since she won't do genetic testing which will show she is as white as whitey whiteman.
This is headed by guys like Rand Paul, Laura Ebke, Justin Amash, etc. These people are more foundational constitutional politicians as opposed to guys like Paul Ryan, Mccain, and Romney.
I supported Rand Paul but it was clear he isn't going to win. As explained many times, Libertarians are especially vulnerable to leftoid venom of bullshit spewed all over them since they tend to be more docile when attacked, similar to mainstream Recucklicans, but with much better constitutional policies. Trump is neither mainstream Republican nor Libertarian nor right-wing religious Republican, you can't put him in a bucket, but he runs tight game and gives zero fucks about his political career - coming from a highly profitable private enterprise - which is the secret of his success. He like no other can put a mirror in front of the leftoids and mainstream Republicans, can agree and amplify (since he is not a politician so it doesn't put him in a bad light) in light of corruption allegations and put his yuge fingers into their wounds, right where they are vulnerable: they are all politicians who essentially have done nothing to curb higher taxes and immigration while lining their own pockets and (a specialty of the left) alienating and vilifying the common man, no matter what spin they put out on the floor.
HowdyThere says
Goran, what policies of Bernie Sander or Elizabeth Warren do you consider to be radical collectivism?
I'd start with their stances on taxes and immigration as well as discrimination against straight white males in the spirit of collectivism. Well for Warren that backfired since she won't do genetic testing which will show she is as white as whitey whiteman.
44
Goran_K
2018 May 22, 6:42pm
Goran_K
2018 May 22, 6:42pm
Those are good ones. I’d add their stances on health care, taxation and then being advocates for equality of outcome to round out their socialist tendencies.
45
mell
2018 May 22, 6:56pm
I'd like to add that the Republicans have done similar assholery such as the failed war on drugs incarcerating people sometimes needlessly. However with free speech and being treated as equal people can advocate for a change in such laws while they can live without smoking a joint at work place or in public places, but they cannot live with the thought/speech police surveilling every word they say and discriminating against them for what they cannot change. That is why I think the modern left is losing, their policies are far more dangerous and people have started realizing that.
46
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 May 22, 6:58pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 May 22, 6:58pm
Heraclitusstudent says
It's shocking that somebody would say that the Clintons - who ran the Democratic Party from 1992 onwards and were the #1 Allies of Outsourcing, Free Trade, H1-B Visas, and never, ever any reciprocal Tariffs or trade retailiation for IP Threft - were somehow defenders of American Manufacturing and Labor.
The Media still parrots the failed Neoliberal Policies of unlimited outsourcing, unlimited immigration, H1Bs to the Maximum, and the benefits of offshoring $20/hr jobs in exchange for fewer $9-12/hr jobs warehousing and moving imported goods.
It wasn't until 2016 that Hillary distanced herself from any Trade Deal, and that's because the TPP was quite rightly outed as another big transfer of jobs abroad. But her criticism was so weak and vague "As it's written" - anybody with half a brain knew that once she was elected she'd announce some token change fit her criteria. In fact, TPP would have signed by April 2017, if she had won.
I'm wondering how naive you have to be to think the 2 parties were not together in the corporatism and the short term profits. Clinton loved free trade agreements. And Democrats never made 1 move against that trend.
I find this really amazing that some people still think Democrats stand for labor in this country.
It's shocking that somebody would say that the Clintons - who ran the Democratic Party from 1992 onwards and were the #1 Allies of Outsourcing, Free Trade, H1-B Visas, and never, ever any reciprocal Tariffs or trade retailiation for IP Threft - were somehow defenders of American Manufacturing and Labor.
The Media still parrots the failed Neoliberal Policies of unlimited outsourcing, unlimited immigration, H1Bs to the Maximum, and the benefits of offshoring $20/hr jobs in exchange for fewer $9-12/hr jobs warehousing and moving imported goods.
It wasn't until 2016 that Hillary distanced herself from any Trade Deal, and that's because the TPP was quite rightly outed as another big transfer of jobs abroad. But her criticism was so weak and vague "As it's written" - anybody with half a brain knew that once she was elected she'd announce some token change fit her criteria. In fact, TPP would have signed by April 2017, if she had won.
47
HowdyThere
2018 May 22, 7:20pm
Okay, we have some examples.
Taxes. I'd say policy on taxes is irrelevant in the face of spending, unless you believe that deficits don't matter. Spending is what counts. Neither party is able to cut spending in a meaningful way.
Immigration. Putting aside the sabre rattling by the Rs, there is no significant difference in outcomes. In fact, Trump is deporting fewer than Obama.
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2017/12/14/donald-trump-is-deporting-fewer-people-than-barack-obama-did
Discrimination vs white males in the spirit of collectivism. I'll start off by saying I've been a victim of white male discrimination, over 20 years ago. Was not happy about it. But I'd like to know what policies either Bernie or Elizabeth have proposed that fit this description.
Health Care. Universal health care, single payer, whichever, is common throughout the world including many close US allies. Hard to call this radical collectivism. Maybe the US should invade the UK and Canada to stamp out the extremism of universal health care. Keep in mind, universal health care has significant benefits for employee mobility and minimizing lost days of productivity.
Equality of Outcome. Need a policy attached this. I've talked about the problem of D and R talking points in other threads. This sounds like an R talking point without substantiation.
mell says
This is important. There are people on the left side of the political spectrum that want to silence reasonable debate. There are people on the right side of the political spectrum that want to use free speech for protect hate speech. Moderates on both sides need to come together to find a reasonable compromise. As long as the general public keeps accepting the extreme messaging by Ds and Rs of the 'other side', the reasonable compromise is impossible.
Taxes. I'd say policy on taxes is irrelevant in the face of spending, unless you believe that deficits don't matter. Spending is what counts. Neither party is able to cut spending in a meaningful way.
Immigration. Putting aside the sabre rattling by the Rs, there is no significant difference in outcomes. In fact, Trump is deporting fewer than Obama.
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2017/12/14/donald-trump-is-deporting-fewer-people-than-barack-obama-did
Discrimination vs white males in the spirit of collectivism. I'll start off by saying I've been a victim of white male discrimination, over 20 years ago. Was not happy about it. But I'd like to know what policies either Bernie or Elizabeth have proposed that fit this description.
Health Care. Universal health care, single payer, whichever, is common throughout the world including many close US allies. Hard to call this radical collectivism. Maybe the US should invade the UK and Canada to stamp out the extremism of universal health care. Keep in mind, universal health care has significant benefits for employee mobility and minimizing lost days of productivity.
Equality of Outcome. Need a policy attached this. I've talked about the problem of D and R talking points in other threads. This sounds like an R talking point without substantiation.
mell says
they cannot live with the thought/speech police surveilling every word they say and discriminating against them
This is important. There are people on the left side of the political spectrum that want to silence reasonable debate. There are people on the right side of the political spectrum that want to use free speech for protect hate speech. Moderates on both sides need to come together to find a reasonable compromise. As long as the general public keeps accepting the extreme messaging by Ds and Rs of the 'other side', the reasonable compromise is impossible.
« First « Previous Comments 41 - 48 of 48 Search these comments
Goddamn Trumpler is starting a Trade War. We're all Doomed Doomed, DOOMED!
Oh. Well the North Korea talks will fall apart, then.