patrick.net

MisterLefty says

Where is Iwog when you need him?

He is a film producer now.

MisterLefty says

So the argument is that we will transfer 65% of the population to a government plan, and that folks' tax increases will not exceed $1,213 for single folks and $5,714 for an average family?

Nope that's not the argument.

LeonDurham says

Nope that's not the argument.

Why not?

MisterLefty says

Why not?

The "admin savings" is speculation. It is guess work at reducing redundant admin costs. Somehow the author forgot the efficiencies of competition, or the inefficiencies from lack thereof. Does anyone really think costs wouldnt skyrocket? Or that the legislation process wouldnt be completely manipulated by health industry billionaires looking after their own interests?

Here is the math if tax increases were to equal costs to individual and families insured through employers or through private plans.

US population: 325.7 million

Married versus single: 50/50

Employer insured: 49% of population = 159.6 million

Non-group plans: 7% of population = 22.8 million

Employee yearly premium cost under employer sponsored group plan: $1,213 for single coverage and $5,714 for family coverage

Yearly premium cost under non-group plan: $3603 for single coverage, $7,102 for family coverage.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/185968/average-annual-premiums-of-non-group-health-insurance-by-coverage-type/

Total annual premium cost: $674,782 million.

Does anyone believe that will cover transferring 65% of the population over to the government plan? Does anyone believe increased taxes to pay for this will not exceed the annual premiums paid by individuals and families?

LeonDurham says

That has nothing to do with the fact that Joe's compensation package might be more lucrative than Jack's.

Straw man again....

Please use reading comprehension before replying. Let's try this again:

MrMagic says

Conversely, if two people, Joe and Harry, start at a company at the same time with the same position.

Apparently I have to spell out the last piece of that: also at the same wages, same positions.

LeonDurham says

Any money the company pays towards health care premiums is part of one's compensation package.

The problem is, that's not what you said above, you said it was "Their Money":

LeonDurham says

it's the employee's money.

So, let's see if we can clear this up, you say their Benefits are part of their compensation package and their money. So based on that assertion, the employee can decide to take that complete benefit package as cash, right? Say the employer is paying $12k a year for the insurance premium as part of the benefit package, the employee can request his employer to cut him a check for that $12k instead. Is that how it works?

How often do employers agree to do that?

marcus says

Health care is evolving quickly. I can envision a future that reduces costs by using

1) AI for diagnostics and consultations. (in conjunction with)
2) nurse practitioners.
3) Overseen by MD managers
...

The only problem here is the oversight by "MD managers". MD's aren't really very well trained to manage the provision of healthcare. They're basically a second line of defense for problems that can't be solved by a nurse or PA. Specialists are a third line for problems that a GP suspects are related to a specific system but can't address himself.

The problem is that the farther you go up that chain the less the person is capable of seeing the bigger picture and the more they are zeroed in on their pet disease or bread-and-butter procedure. If you really want to administer better care for less money you need move in the opposite direction and find people who a detached from the "front lines" of treating this or that illness. Basically similar to what insurance benefit managers do but make the primary goal eliminating harmful and/or useless treatment rather than adding to the bottom line of the insurer (and yes there is a big difference between the two because insurers in many cases are effectively paid a percentage of all healthcare spend so they actually benefit from wasteful treatment).

bolinos says

marcus says

Health care is evolving quickly. I can envision a future that reduces costs by using

1) AI for diagnostics and consultations. (in conjunction with)
2) nurse practitioners.
3) Overseen by MD managers
...

The only problem here is the oversight by "MD managers". MD's aren't really very well trained to manage the provision of healthcare. They're basically a second line of defense for problems that can't be solved by a nurse or PA. Specialists are a third line for problems that a GP suspects are related to a specific system but can't address himself.

The problem is that the farther you go up that chain the less the person is capable of seeing the bigger picture and the more they are zeroed in on their pet disease or bread-and-butter procedure. If you really want to administer better care for less money you need move in the opposite direction and find people who a ...

People should be free with the adequate private ppo or out of pocket add-on to pursue the specialists and their procedures. I agree that there are many specialist procedures that aren't necessary from a quality of life and life expectancy perspective but everybody is different and has a different threshold for specialist / surgery involvement. The most basic insurance should not cover this, but mainly acute and only life threatening chronic conditions. A first in line GP can not only be a cost prevented but also a functional / holistic adviser for general lifestyle health/fitness and prevention.

MrMagic says

So, let's see if we can clear this up, you say their Benefits are part of their compensation package and their money. So based on that assertion, the employee can decide to take that complete benefit package as cash, right? Say the employer is paying $12k a year for the insurance premium as part of the benefit package, the employee can request his employer to cut him a check for that $12k instead. Is that how it works?

No, of course not. A benefit is a benefit. Salary is salary.

MisterLefty says

Why not?

Have you read any of my posts?