patrick.net

tatupu70 says

Sure--this is a good place to start:

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/11/656682211/why-saudi-arabias-government-felt-threatened-by-journalist-jamal-khashoggi

This was Kashoggi's main complaint against MBS according to this interview?

____
"HAMID: And he supported some of the general reforms that MbS was trying to put forward, including more rights for women. But he felt that if Saudi Arabia was going to go through a transformation, that the people had to be part of the conversation. And the Saudi leadership and MbS in particular increasingly moved in a direction where they didn't want any questioning of this new direction. And Khashoggi couldn't bring himself to agree with that. And I think that he was pained to have this break with the Saudi regime. He didn't want it."
____

Couldn't that be interpreted that Kashoggi was pissed that MBS was bypassing the old Islamist hardliners which he calls "the people"?

I've honestly yet to see a single thing Kashoggi has written against the Saudis from an liberal/secular angle. Dude just seemed pissed that MBS was trying to change the old Saudi Wahabbi guard which sure as shit needs decades of massive reform.

tatupu70 says

The Saudis didn't record it-Turkey did.

Exactly isn't Turkey in the EU?

I'm beginning to think this Kashoggi guy was a threat to the Trump/MBS alliance, which is why he was tortured for information and killed. If so, I'm all for it. I trust Trump to do what it takes to destroy Islam. In the case of Islam, the end justifies the means.

tatupu70 says

The Saudis didn't record it-Turkey did.

How did they record it? Any proof?

clambo says

Of course, this will be blamed on Trump somehow for attempting better relations with the Saudis.

Yes it will, but in this case I think the left's insane hatred for Trump may actually have some utility.

We don't need better relations with the Saudis. We need zero relations with the Saudis.

And we should make sure they cannot get at their money in the US to fund more terrorism. I don't care how it's done, but they should be completely excluded from the US financial system.

tatupu70 says

No the question is how to we rationalize it so Trump gets no blame.

Why should we blame Trump if the Saudis took out a Muslim Brotherhood sympathizer whose Uncle was a billionaire arms dealer and was connected to somebody serving 23-25 years in prison for financing the assassination of a Saudi Prince?

If we don't blame Obama for not sanctioning Saudi Arabia when it executed Witches and Gays, why are we suddenly holding Trump accountable if the Saudis killed a dangerous terrorist supporter?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

tatupu70 says

No the question is how to we rationalize it so Trump gets no blame.

Why should we blame Trump if the Saudis took out a Muslim Brotherhood sympathizer whose Uncle was a billionaire arms dealer and was connected to somebody serving 23-25 years in prison for financing the assassination of a Saudi Prince?

If we don't blame Obama for not sanctioning Saudi Arabia when it executed Witches and Gays, why are we suddenly holding Trump accountable if the Saudis killed a dangerous terrorist supporter?

Can you stop with the rational statements? You are confusing the liberals.

Let's review:

1. This kind of shit has been going on forever in the House of Saud, it's just the first time the US Establishment is reporting it, with belated, coincidental timing.
1b. Isn't it odd that they do so just when there are actual, concrete liberal reforms to point to in SA for the first time in decades?
1c. The Establishment is not just being ideological: Plenty of people are pro-Iran Deal and were involved in it, see it as their legacy, and have a personal grudge over it.

2. The Saudis killed a known MB Member, lifelong OBL Friend, Taliban Supporter, who posed with Taliban fighters, and authored pieces for Islamist Propaganda.
2b. And is connected to an assassination financier who is serving 20+ years in the Federal Pen.
2c. And Alaweed bin Talal, who was an opponent of MbS' family members and purchased the Yacht of...
2d. And the nephew of the billionaire Arms dealer Adnan Khashoogi, whose wealth and power is so enormous, Robin Leach and Queen covered his exploits in film and song.

3. Turkey has more journalists in prison than any country in the world, including Iran and China. And most of them were imprisoned in the past 2 years.
3b. Erdogan has definitely been aiding AQ/ISIS and courting Islamists, both domestically and abroad.
3c. Most of the sources are Turkish Government Officials
3d. Most of the reporting is via Isokoff, who is a militant Democrat, appears on Democracy Now!, and co-wrote books with David Corn.
3e. Strategist raised the great point - why visit the Saudi embassy in Turkey, and not London or NY? It's possible Khashoggi was working with Turkey and figured Erdogan the Islamist Symp would protect him? Was he about to give secrets to Turkey, or to the pro-MB types in the Deep State?

4. Left-Islamist Alliance

5. Nothing has been proven yet, but there's a 75/25% chance it was the Saudis.
5b. However Saudi Arabia didn't kill a Journalist. They killed a Muslim Brotherhood Shill.

If you shot John Pilger or Ken Livingstone or Michael Moore, you're not killing a Journalist, you're killing a Shill. Not that I condone such behavior in any way shape or form.

Strategist says

If we don't blame Obama for not sanctioning Saudi Arabia when it executed Witches and Gays, why are we suddenly holding Trump accountable if the Saudis killed a dangerous terrorist supporter?

Sanctions aside, congress can do that. The difference is that Obama didn't go along with a concocted story about "rouge killers" and that the King and Prince told him they knew nothing about those killers and that he believed them over his own intelligence people. Trump or perhaps princeling Jared seems to be either concocting or totally supporting the Saudi "excuse" for the torture killing and butchering of this dude. Did the evil Negro ever do that? Of course Obama hadn't done and continued to do millions in business with these savages. Money, in case you want to open your eyes is one of Tiny's weaknesses. And what do the Saudis have to dangle in front of him? Its how they operate.

Why is Turkey so upset over the death of Kashoggi? They don't go to these lengths on every murder or disappearance.
The plot thickens.

Strategist says

Why is Turkey so upset over the death of Kashoggi

A good question, their hands are dirty in all kinds of ways regarding human rights and due process. I would guess part of it is a killing in Turkey under their noses makes them lose face but likely there are other more sinister motives for their sudden spell righteousness.

HeadSet says

Both pics are disgusting. No US president should bow for anyone, not the Queen, not ever. This also goes for W when he held hands while walking with the Saudi monarch. The US president is light years above any world leader both in power and prestige. Even then, we do not require anyone to bow to our leader either.

THIS. It's called a fucking handshake and move on.

WookieMan says

HeadSet says

Both pics are disgusting. No US president should bow for anyone, not the Queen, not ever. This also goes for W when he held hands while walking with the Saudi monarch. The US president is light years above any world leader both in power and prestige. Even then, we do not require anyone to bow to our leader either.

THIS. It's called a fucking handshake and move on.

Lol, just thought of this. I'm going to create a religion where it's required for only attractive women to give me a blowjob upon meeting me. Jesus, these formalities and customs are absolute garbage.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

1. This kind of shit has been going on forever in the House of Saud, it's just the first time the US Establishment is reporting it, with belated, coincidental timing.

Really? Want to post all the times saudi's killed someone in their embassy in another country? Oh wait. allegedly killed. Actually he was abducted by aliens using special alien cloaking devices to take him out without cameras recording it. ROFLOL.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

2c. And Alaweed bin Talal

You never said how many community organizers Talal sent to harvard law for islamic studies other than obama.. ROFLOLx2

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

If you shot John Pilger or Ken Livingstone or Michael Moore, you're not killing a Journalist, you're killing a Shill

You forgot Hannity, Beck, and O'Reilly. on your shill list. RFLOLx3


Pretty impressive that Trump sent the sec of state to KSA to help them get their stories straight or at least come up with a story that the Trump could claim was plausible to try to preserve the fiction of the new and improved KSA. The entire world will be laughing their asses off of course, but at least it will be a cover story. .

WookieMan says

Lol, just thought of this. I'm going to create a religion where it's required for only attractive women to give me a blowjob upon meeting me.

Trump beat you to it.

WookieMan says

I'm going to create a religion where it's required for only attractive women to give me a blowjob upon meeting me.

You may need help handling an unlimited number of blowjobs. I'm quite sure every Patnetter would be willing to lend a hand. uuhhh make that a penis.

We can cut ties with the Saudis after 1. they run out of oil 2. we use natural gas as a substitute for oil 3. Iran self-destructs 4. Israel relocates to a safer region of the world

Since we got rid of Saddam, we need a presence in that area to check Iran because they threaten our ally Israel. This is an unexpected consequence of our Iraq adventure.

I'm fairly sure that Pres. Trump would rather be thinking about other things than Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq.

We have a lot of foreign "entanglements" which President Washington warned against a long time ago.

I don't know the answer, but I wonder what that dead journalist was doing to bother someone enough to kill him.

I have no desire to ever visit that part of the world and never will.

Aphroman says

The answer is simple. Let Israel fend for herself

I agree, with the caveat that we also don’t interfere with whatever they do to defend themselves. If they permanently excise the Palestinians from their country, we stand back! If they respond to Arab aggression by taking control of Syria or whatever, ok! And if they can’t hack it and get eliminated then we also stand back. But enough of these half measures that keep the region on a slow boil. Israel either needs to prove itself the baddest kid in the sandbox or it needs to get booted out. No more hamstringing the Israelis with UN edicts that keep a few million hostiles within their borders.

bob2356 says

Really? Want to post all the times saudi's killed someone in their embassy in another country?

How about the 3,000 they killed in downtown New York Bob? Besides, I'd argue the Saudis killed this guy more carefully than Putin spreading radioactive poison all over Europe or even the US droning suspects from 20,000 feet.

You've been rightfully critical about the Saudi Wahabbi Islamist for years on this site. Why are you bent that Saudi Arabia took out a Wahabbi?

Or do you think Kashoggi was a liberal/secular reformer? I am willing to believe, but everything I have read about him suggests he was just another smooth talking Islamist radical that has duped so many in the West on both the Left and Right.

Strategist says

WookieMan says

I'm going to create a religion where it's required for only attractive women to give me a blowjob upon meeting me.

You may need help handling an unlimited number of blowjobs. I'm quite sure every Patnetter would be willing to lend a hand. uuhhh make that a penis.

Reverend Moon may have beat you to it, with his "right of first night" for brides that marry in his church.

Islam is cancer. The Saudis are evil but serve as a good barrier against the Iranians.

Aphroman says

MBS? Obviously

Maybe - but we have seen more reforms in Saudi Arabia in the last year than we have seen in decades. Let alone a rapprochement with Israel. I know it is a very low bar. I think cozying up to Israel is what pisses the likes of Kashoggi and the Iranians off the most.

Goran_K says

Islam is cancer. The Saudis are evil but serve as a good barrier against the Iranians.

That's like the fire being a barrier to the frying pan.

bob2356 says

Really? Want to post all the times saudi's killed someone in their embassy in another country? Oh wait. allegedly killed. Actually he was abducted by aliens using special alien cloaking devices to take him out without cameras recording it. ROFLOL.

Saudi Arabia never assassinated anybody until now? ROTFL. And in those previous incidents, the Media focused on it and it made front page news for weeks? LOL!

bob2356 says

You never said how many community organizers Talal sent to harvard law for islamic studies other than obama.. ROFLOLx2

Several.

bob2356 says

You forgot Hannity, Beck, and O'Reilly. on your shill list. RFLOLx3

They don't get hired by the Democracy Dies in Our Deep State Washington Post. ROTFLx3!

bob2356 says

Pretty impressive that Trump sent the sec of state to KSA to help them get their stories straight or at least come up with a story that the Trump could claim was plausible to try to preserve the fiction of the new and improved KSA. The entire world will be laughing their asses off of course, but at least it will be a cover story. .

Did your source at the State Department clue you in?

I'm glad Saudi Arabia took care of a dangerous terrorist sympathizer before he could do yet more harm.

Anybody remember this story? It was barely covered. Here's an article from ABC Australia, since US Coverage was scanty:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-29/sparrow-blind-eye-to-saudi-arabias-brutality/6813422

The charges were using his blackberry to Protest during the Arab Spring . He claimed to be tortured in the infamous

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60Ulaysha_Prison

He would have been 16-17 years oldwhen picked up for Protesting in 2011-2012. King Salman ordered CRUCIFIXION and BEHEADING. The sentence was believed to have been carried out February 2016.

Anybody remember the Media running this story front and center for weeks? What sanctions did Obama impose?

Here's another conundrum:

Iran has been murdering gays and dissenters for years and years.

How did Obama deal with it? By removing sanctions and releasing the Shah's cash into their hands, yes?

socal2 says

bob2356 says

Really? Want to post all the times saudi's killed someone in their embassy in another country?

How about the 3,000 they killed in downtown New York Bob? Besides, I'd argue the Saudis killed this guy more carefully than Putin spreading radioactive poison all over Europe or even the US droning suspects from 20,000 feet.

You've been rightfully critical about the Saudi Wahabbi Islamist for years on this site. Why are you bent that Saudi Arabia took out a Wahabbi?

Where am I bent the saudi's took at a wahabbi? I'm bent the saudi apologists starting with two scoops up to and including trump are still trying to sell the new improved KSA bullshit when they just proved they are worse than ever. I don't think any country ever had the balls to brazenly kill someone inside one of their embassies before.

I notice the kinder gentler KSA hasn't stopped funding radical imans or madras schools (aka terrorist recruitment and training centers) all around the world. All the radical islamic terrorist attacks around the world lead right back to the KSA. So hey, let's goad our way into war with Iran because they are bad people. WTF?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Saudi Arabia never assassinated anybody until now? ROTFL

Like who did they assassinate in their embassy over seas? Names are lacking. You don't think the first time any country has done something so bold and stupid is news worthy?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

bob2356 says

You never said how many community organizers Talal sent to harvard law for islamic studies other than obama.. ROFLOLx2

Several.

Like who? The names are lacking. You seem to be having trouble with this.

bob2356 says

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Saudi Arabia never assassinated anybody until now? ROTFL

Like who did they assassinate in their embassy over seas? Names are lacking. You don't think the first time any country has done something so bold and stupid is news worthy?

No, it's not newsworthy. It would be newsworthy if Islam stopped killing.

bob2356 says

Like who? The names are lacking. You seem to be having trouble with this.

Before I answer, can you explain why Iran was rewarded for executing gays and protesters with the Iran Deal?

Because you and tatupu seem to not want to explain this.

Why we need to have MbS - the only Saudi Ruler who has actually passed concrete liberal reforms - removed over a potential assassination, but we need to keep the Iran Deal with the Murderous Mullahs who imprison, torture, and execute countless people every year?

bob2356 says

I notice the kinder gentler KSA hasn't stopped funding radical imans or madras schools (aka terrorist recruitment and training centers) all around the world.

You know this for sure?

‘We Misled You’: How the Saudis Are Coming Clean on Funding Terrorism"
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/saudi-arabia-terrorism-funding-214241

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Throw Khashoggi down the well.

So it is ok to kill him because you love trump?

personal

gsr says

So it is ok to kill him because you love trump?

Go read my posts. I explained who Khashoggi is and what groups and people he's affiliated with.

Did you support the Iran Deal? Did Iran stop torturing, imprisoning, and executing Gays and Protesters before and / or after it?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Before I answer, can you explain why Iran was rewarded for executing gays and protesters with the Iran Deal?

Because you and tatupu seem to not want to explain this.

Why we need to have MbS - the only Saudi Ruler who has actually passed concrete liberal reforms - removed over a potential assassination, but we need to keep the Iran Deal with the Murderous Mullahs who imprison, torture, and execute countless people every year?

ROFLOL. Now that's really funny shit. Rewarded for killing gays and protesters? Like decapitation and subsequent public crucifixion of Ahmed bin ‘Adhaib bin ‘Askar al-Shamlani al-‘Anzi, for homosexuality? Oh shit that was in Riyadh, never mind. What a fucking joke. KSA gets rewarded every day by the USofA for executing gays and protesters using your "logic" .

I still waiting for the list of names. But I'm sure you will get it to me before the sun goes supernova. Maybe.

socal2 says

‘We Misled You’: How the Saudis Are Coming Clean on Funding Terrorism"
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/saudi-arabia-terrorism-funding-214241

I missed the part of the article that says what KSA DID about their sponsorship of terrorism around the world. Both officially as a government and private money. It's noticeably absent. So the saudi's now openly admit to fostering terrorism against the US and the rest of the west for decades. Nice. With friends like these who needs enemies? But hey they are now the new kindlier gentler KSA. They feel bad about it and some day they will consider doing something about it. Maybe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-45909732

Police in Turkey investigating the alleged killing of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi have expanded their search.

Unnamed Turkish officials say his body may have been disposed of in the nearby Belgrad forest or on farmland.

Mr Khashoggi disappeared after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on 2 October, where Turkish officials allege he was murdered.

Saudi Arabia denies any knowledge of what happened to him.

Samples taken from the Saudi consulate and the consul's residence during searches this week are being tested for a match with Mr Khashoggi's DNA.

The latest reported searches - Belgrad forest and an area in the city of Yalova - took place after suspicion was raised over the movements taken by Saudi diplomatic vehicles at the time of Mr Khashoggi's disappearance, officials said.

The major French daily Le Figaro on Thursday published a bombshell story which reports the Saudi royal family is actively considering a replacement to crown prince Mohammed bin Salman (MbS) as next in line to succeed his father King Salman as the kingdom finds itself under the greatest international pressure and scrutiny it's faced in its modern history over the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi — widely believed to have been killed on orders of MbS himself.

The Li Figaro report's unnamed diplomatic source says the Allegiance Council, which is historically the body responsible for approving the order of succession to the throne, is currently meeting in secret (translation from the French):

For several days, the Allegiance Council for the ruling Saudi family is meeting in the utmost discretion, says a diplomatic source to Le Figaro in Paris. The information has been confirmed by a Saudi Arabian contacted in Riyadh. Composed of a delegate representing each of the clans — at least seven — of the royal family, this body, responsible for inheritance problems, examines the situation created by the disappearance, still unresolved, more than a fortnight ago, of the journalist dissident Jamal Khashoggi at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-19/saudi-allegiance-council-meeting-secret-consider-mbs-replacement-report

Patrick says

The major French daily Le Figaro on Thursday published a bombshell story which reports the Saudi royal family is actively considering a replacement to crown prince Mohammed bin Salman (MbS) as next in line to succeed his father King Salman

Trump will decide who gets to inherit the Saudi throne.

Am I the only one secretly hoping we hear the tape soon?