patrick.net

marcus says

Tenouncetrout says
No it’s not, because in the late 90’s and early 2000’s nobody could say anything about addressing most of the issues with out the race card being pulled.

Anything else you want to make up ? That is such BS. I have seen the posts back and forth about your supposed weed abuse. I think there is a much simpler explanation.

ToT is 100% correct. Any crackdown on gangs was called racism. Alot like the crackdown on illegal invaders is being called racisim .. same leftists pulling the same poop, in my opinion.

Bap33 says

illegal invaders

If I have the opinion that there is a race component to what's going on in Arizona, that's just my opinion. I should be entitled to it. Anchor babies ? How often does that happen ? And how bad is it. They become American, pay taxes, and have children who pay taxes. Oh no !!

But gangs ? I recall big increases in urban police forces under Clinton. There was a police Chief Bratton who came to LA in 2002, and was in New York and I think Boston before that. I never heard any crys of racism in his campaigns against gangs. This is nothing more than an incredibly weak attempt to pin the gang phenomenon on liberals. The drug trade, and basically all cultural problems and decay in values are the fault of liberals. If you are for family values and God, then you should vote republican.

Speaking of which here is a great site about Glenn Becks lies (which you won't want to check out):

http://glennbeckreport.com/glenn-beck-lies/

marcus says

The drug trade, and basically all cultural problems and decay in values are the fault of liberals. If you are for family values and God, then you should vote republican.

best post ever

Marcus .... when did you become a republican?

Let's face it, beliefs make us who we are, and they don't have that much to do with rational logical thought. I even know some people of nearly average intelligence who have almost those exact beliefs (that Bap quoted from me above).

How can it be that there is no clear measure for morals nor right/wrong, but there is a clear measure for logic and intellect? Could it not be said that there is no absolute logic, no absolute correct answer, if there is no absolute base for all things? Just who or what decides "average intelligence"? Could we use them/it to figure out what's absolute right/wrong? In my itty bitty mind it would seem that if someone belives there is a known and agreed upon absolute guage for "rational thought", then that same person should believe in a known and absolute guage for acceptable moral behavior, right/wrong, stuff like that.

Bap33 says

In my itty bitty mind it would seem that if someone belives there is a known and agreed upon absolute guage for “rational thought”, then that same person should believe in a known and absolute guage for acceptable moral behavior

I wasn't pitting intelligence or logic against morals. Just noting there are plenty of fools who feel good about being republican (backing their corporate overlords) because they have bought into the idea that "moral decay" is the fault of democrats or liberals, and that being republican is somehow the spiritually right choice.

And yet most of these people never even consider the biggest moral questions, such as was our adventure in Iraq morally right? Forgetting the answer, how many of these morally superior judgmental types are even willing to look at that question? Why is it that this same group can't acknowledge the monumental sins of their forefathers such as the genocide of native americans?

Not to look down on the intelligence of all republicans, but yes the ones who use such simple and intellectually dishonest reasoning.

Religion often does little more than help people to feel self righteous about their morals. Morality is in the eye of the beholder. Issues like gay marriage and a womans choice are good examples. Sure a simple law direct from God would make things easy. But it turns out things aren't so simple.

Bap33 says

How can it be that there is no clear measure for morals nor right/wrong, but there is a clear measure for logic and intellect?

So you tell me then, and were talking BIG IMPORTANT actions. Does your religion tell you whether what we did to native americans was right or wrong ? HOw about the people we killed in Iraq? Is there some cost benefit analysis that needs to be done, or is the answer clear?

Bap33 says

known and absolute guage for acceptable moral behavior

What behaviors would you be considering?

I think there is agreement about what's right and wrong, and for the most part what we want to teach children. Religion is useful for that education.

But for adults: Promiscuous sex? Drinking? Drug use? Gambling? These are the areas that might be part of what is described as our culture's moral decay. Nearly everyone agrees moderation or minimizing these is a good thing. But absolute rules? Rules that one person can follow and than judge others who don't follow them as well? Typically, a person might have gone through a stage when they were promiscuous, if they were lucky, and yet want to impose rules for their children. That's normal.

But judging kids that are out there doing things you might have done when you were a kid ? And then blaming liberals?

you happened to suggest there was a connection between intellect and right and wrong sides of things, not me. So, I just asked from whence you found/based the guage for intellect and if that same guage would work to settle the other question that we discussed about morals and boundries and such. Nothing more.

My "religion", whatever that is, doesn't tell me anything -- that I am aware of, anyways. Does yours?