patrick.net

It's probably less about everyone knowing each other, and more about everyone behaving in the same way. These sales people were probably all trained by more or less the same agents who probably learned from the same agents. It's like evolution in business, the best strategies survive, while the worst die off. These are the surviving agents, and they're using the strategies that have always worked for them in the past.

Maybe I’m being paranoid, but I had this thought that all the “agents” had this clandestine network so that when a hapless “house hunter” fell into their Mancatcher, they all sent smoke signals on their cell phones to make sure and present all the homes as having multiple bids.

I'm pretty sure this is driven by the agent's desire to win the bid. He/she does not want to risk losing a pay check because he/she did not convince you to bid higher. There is a big conflict of interest. Once he/she knows how much you are willing to bid and lose, they will start showing you cheaper homes and still want you to bid the same price as you did on the better home.

This show is still on? I figured this kind of realty porn would have disappeared by now.

The thing is, if you do the math, it doesn't make much sense for the agent to lie about full-price offers. Let's say you lowball and get the house for $50k under asking. The agent loses out on $1250 (half of the 5% assuming a 50/50 split with the listing agent) and probably a lot less goes in his/her pocket after giving up the office's cut. However, if you keep moving on to the next house because you're not willing to make a full-price offer, the agent's going to spend a lot more time with you and that could have been spent with another client making another commission. If I were an agent, I'd want to get you to buy spending as little of my time as possible.

I-man says

The thing is, if you do the math, it doesn’t make much sense for the agent to lie about full-price offers. Let’s say you lowball and get the house for $50k under asking. The agent loses out on $1250 (half of the 5% assuming a 50/50 split with the listing agent) and probably a lot less goes in his/her pocket after giving up the office’s cut. However, if you keep moving on to the next house because you’re not willing to make a full-price offer, the agent’s going to spend a lot more time with you and that could have been spent with another client making another commission. If I were an agent, I’d want to get you to buy spending as little of my time as possible.

I'd agree and say it doesn't make much sense based on the math IF the realtor didn't have the opportunity or skill to read their mark (err, homebuyer) before lying. Most of the people I've observed on the show (my wife frequently watches it - I only pass through the room, I swear :) are either utter fools, or the show is edited to make it seem as though they are. When I've watch a realtor throw the "multiple offers at listing price" thing out there, everyone seems to buy it hook, line and sinker. If I were a realtor, I might not try to game everybody, but if they were as clueless as these people seem, I'd certainly try once or twice.

First thing Realtors(r) are tought in FTB101(fool the buyer 101) is to tell the buyer “multiple offers at listing price”.

Hey John, which episode is it exactly?
I was trying to find the exact episode in HGTV website for the heck of fun though, I am not sure what it is that you're refering to.

bubblesitter says

FTB101(fool the buyer 101)

FOOL the buyer? That's not what I heard it meant...

IME, the same realty office or major broker gets all the foreclosures in a certain metro area. It just makes it easier for the banks to list with one office who knows how to handle the paperwork and the short sales. We had one or two offices that had all the foreclosures in a 350,000 east coast metro town. So the agents absolutely all know and speak to each other in their Monday morning meeting. solution: buy direct from the bank

if you're dumb enough to listen to a realtor, it's hard for me to have much sympathy for you.

Great subject! I talked to a RE agent acquaintance last weekend. He said he'd had an open house two weeks ago (this is in the midwest in a nice area) where he'd had two viewers the entire time. Turned out both were RE agents sussing the place out. They're beginning to cannabalize each other, guys!

IMHO anyone buying a house now for their principal residence or as an investment is nuts. We're entering a double dip drop in the housing market (and I see a third and a fourth coming, 2011 and 2012). The gov is very positive that we're not entering a double dip recession in the economy. Which is b.s. too. Until the unemployment rate drops I believe an we'll be in constant recession mode. And, it (I'm guessing) won't drop (without gov manipulation) within my lifetime so....

As far as the RE agents, a couple years back, I had the misfortune to need to find a car quickly. More than a couple sales people tried "gaming" me. More than a couple asked me where my husband was. One told me she'd just had brain surgery, showed me the scar and needed the bread to feed her family. I walked away from 'em all. I knew up front that I'd be shown the cars on which the company would make the most profit. For sheer cojones though I have to give the award to the agent in 2006 who sent me a letter saying he knew I couldn't afford the house and so he wanted to sell it for me. Him, I had for lunch and lem'me tell you, he was tasty. All these guys are spawn of the people who host late night infomercials as anyone with insomnia can tell you.

I've been watching the RE shows on HGTV for the last few years (once I got cable). I'm glad I'm not the only one fascinated/disgusted by this house porn crap. My god, people have bad taste! I've seen some butt-ugly properties on HH. Makes me love my humble little apt. even more!

I believe Hulu has many episodes of this show available for all of you to watch and laugh. As for these buyers, I saw this episode and it is hysterical to watch these marks get led around by some idiot agent. What I don't understand is how a show can allow simple minded buyers to get victimized by these people when the show should be offering real guidance about buying a home and not the usual Kool Aid drinking "Home are rebounding" BS. This couple hopefully will overpay and learn a lesson about thinking for themselves. If they really knew anything about Real Estate, they wouldn't have been househunting with only $10K in the pocket. They were looking for a subprime loan and 0% down deal it shows how ignorant they are........

Here is a conversation with a realtwhore in Los Altos, CA last weekend. The house was empty. My kid and I walked in. Realtwhore ran to the door, handed us the flyer and his card. I wandered around the mostly outdated house - nice place, a few new touches here and there, but nothing really special. Was priced about 200K below where it would be at the peak of the bubble, but now there were better houses offered at the same price nearby.

Realtwhore: "Oh we just got two other offers."

Me: "Wow really, good luck. How long has this been on the market?"

Realtwhore: "About two months"
(A lie, the house had been relisted two months ago. Has been on the market for six months or more)

Me: "Two months, eh? Fancy getting two offers at once after two months!"

Realtwhore: "Ha, yes, the market is picking up, you know."

Me: "Yeah well, good luck then. If you already have offers, I am not interested."

Realtwhore: "But... ahem... you still have until Tuesday... or Thursday, I think"

Me: "No thanks. I don't want to play that game - lots of other houses on the market anyway. Bye"

native94027 says

Me: “No thanks. I don’t want to play that game - lots of other houses on the market anyway. Bye”

This is a lie :) Maybe in the higher end markets. But the lower end markets, sellers rather just hang on to their properties than to take a non bubble price. Then you have the short sales which might as well have an ad in your local Dollar Store.

I went to an open house two years back. The realtor greets me and tells me 'this one went just like that' Huh? He thought I just landed from Mars. The reality is that house had all its lawn dried up for months and had for sale sign on the front yard for months. I just walked in to check on it. I was just amazed by the fact that the realtor assumed I knew nothing about the house.

Vain says
This is a lie Maybe in the higher end markets. But the lower end markets, sellers rather just hang on to their properties than to take a non bubble price. Then you have the short sales which might as well have an ad in your local Dollar Store.

I don't know what you mean by 'this is a lie' - but where I am looking, there are several more attractive used-houses sitting on the market (for weeks and months now) at or near that price-point. The point is that realtwhores have a vested interest in making up colossal fibs about "competing offers", when even a dumbass like me can figure out the odds of getting even one offer at that price are pretty small.

I can't watch that show any more. I watched one where a single woman was asked if she was worried about her mortgage increasing and she said "I'll worry about that when the time comes". Really???? I thought the whole idea of owning a house was future planning and stability. The irresponsibility was just too much "reality" in this "reality show".

The whole idea is that happiness is based on the selection, the deal and ownership of the American Dream (AD). And at the same time ommitting the gory details of getting approved credit, looking at the fees of a contract, how much the realtors are getting, what repairs need to be made, what HOA fees there might be, what the school districts are, etc. etc. The "gory" details of picking out a place to live are left on the editing room floor. Lets not forget about that huge DEBT thing about owning a house also.

once per week each RE office holds an MLS meeting, and once per month each MLS area holds a general meeting with all area RE offices attending.

This is why the BPO process always comes back with higher-than-lender amounts. Commonly called colusion.
These meeting are where "price-per-suqare-foot" are set up by region and neighborhood, pulled from the asses of REwhores. More colusion.
These meeting is where they are all made aware of what make-idiots-into-buyers program is best to use in the area. This is where sub-prime, stated income, and liar buyers were born.
These meetings is where local lending agents make deals that see forced "pre-qualifications" at particular offices before an offer can be made on an REO. Just old fashioned back scratching, I guess.

These meetings are very very interesting to attend, but if you go then you must sit quiet and not jump up and holler, "AHHH HA!!! I knew it !!! You rotten bastards are screwing us blind!!"

If you can not hold your tounge, do not go ..... espicially to one of the large monthy MLS meetings. But, if you can just sit and listen you will learn just how much like Mafia this stuff works. If they ask your intent or reason for attending just say you are looking at getting a license or some other bullshit line.

bubblesitter says

FTB101(fool the buyer 101)

FOOL the buyer? That’s not what I heard it meant…

lmao

I went to an open house a few weeks ago at a new work/live loft complex in my town. The real estate agent told me that two were sold, but they were still showing one of the "sold" units. My friend went last week to snoop at them and now they have sold three more! I don't believe this. There are already two bankrupt condo/loft bldgs. in town that are nearly empty. These new ones just sprang up this summer, god knows why. Do the agents lie and say they sold them, or, I wonder if people are crazy enough to buy these ugly, unimaginative places? They are priced between 400k-620k.

Bap33 says

These meetings is where local lending agents make deals that see forced “pre-qualifications” at particular offices before an offer can be made on an REO. Just old fashioned back scratching, I guess.

I've had problems with this scenario before where the person you must prequalify with ignored calls/voicemails. I can see how if you can bribe the loan officer, you can snag the house at a great deal. They also know what someone intends to offer on the home.

One note re "House Hunters" and "My First Place" shows: I'm pretty sure I just saw this same Phx. episode, and it was a rerun from at least 2009? Even though I live way back East, I'm somewhat up to speed on where prices are now in the Phx. metro area. Knowing that, it's getting incredibly easy to watch the first few minutes of a Phx-focused "House Hunters" or "My First Place" episode and know whether or not I'm watching a new 2010 episode, or a rerun from 2007, 2008 or 2009.... Check the date at the very end of the episode.

Sure do feel bad for the folks who bought in Phx. area from about 2004 up until about early 2010....

Echoing something said a few posts ago: if HGTV had more integrity, they'd create a show focusing on FOLLOWING UP ON many of the homebuyers profiled on "House Hunters" and "My First Place" earlier this past decade, to show a very stark and sad glimpse of how those "just got the keys!" smiles have turned upside-down in many cases. That would be very useful-- though of course painful-- television programming....

Bap33 says

bubblesitter says

FTB101(fool the buyer 101)

FOOL the buyer? That’s not what I heard it meant…

lmao

:)

When are people going to start selling their own homes and we get rid off these snake realtors! all you need is a real estate lawyer to sell your home! best to all.

About 18 months ago I was looking for a house in Springfield, MA.

I got the same spiel from the realtors there.

But what I said was that I'm not interested in competing with anyone, so unless you can confirm no one else has bid, don't take me to see.

I also told the realtor I don't do counter--offers, I'm a one bid person only.

I also showed him I had money in the bank.

sarahmusrara1 says

About 18 months ago I was looking for a house in Springfield, MA.
I got the same spiel from the realtors there.
But what I said was that I’m not interested in competing with anyone, so unless you can confirm no one else has bid, don’t take me to see.
I also told the realtor I don’t do counter–offers, I’m a one bid person only.
I also showed him I had money in the bank.

I'd put 1 more condition. I want half of your commission. I mean you are hiring the realtor. You decide his pay.

Ms.Sullivan says

When are people going to start selling their own homes and we get rid off these snake realtors! all you need is a real estate lawyer to sell your home! best to all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

What do you expect? :p

Almost all the homes seemed to be bank foreclosures that they were bidding on. With each house they liked, the story was the same…”there’s another (or 2, or 3) couples…and they’ve bid full price”.

Biggest scam ever, Congress is too busy chasing evil bankers to even notice the scams from the REA.

steve04074 says

Echoing something said a few posts ago: if HGTV had more integrity, they’d create a show focusing on FOLLOWING UP ON many of the homebuyers profiled on “House Hunters” and “My First Place” earlier this past decade, to show a very stark and sad glimpse of how those “just got the keys!” smiles have turned upside-down in many cases. That would be very useful– though of course painful– television programming….

They do, it is called "My First Sale" and it has short sales...people looking for bubble prices and more. They are also get more realistic. "For Rent" which covers apartment hunting and negotiating on the lease. :)

Nomograph says

It was like 2005 never ended.
I would love to see a show called House Hunters: Five Years Later.

How about these highly resellable homes?
http://www.bonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/23830/299080.html
http://www.airportjournals.com/Display.cfm?varID=0509014
http://www.monsterhouse.tv/mhhouse/magichouse.htm
http://www.monsterhouse.tv/mhhouse/lofthouse.htm

NEVER, I repeat, NEVER use an agent any more, unless you don't know the area or are out of town so much you need someone to help you.

ALWAYS make your own offers and add this line to the bottom:
"My offer reflects me acting as my own agent". Offer at lease 5%, lower, but typically I offer at least 10% lower than the asking price and base it purely on price per sq ft in the area with comps from the web.

THEN WHEN THEY ASK, TELL THEM THAT THEIR AGENT ONLY GETS 2% OR LESS OF THE 6%, SO THE REAL SALES PRICE IS ACTUALLY REDUCED BY THE AGENT'S FEE LOSS! THIS REALLY PISSES THE AGENTS OFF. If they fight it and make a counter, I counter by taking 5.5% away from the agent directly in the contract and offer another 5% off the total from before, they get then picture fast. I have had home builders call me back a week later to take the first offer

So easy, so Simple, yet I cannot figure out why we don;t all act on our own behalf and POCKET the cash.

well gammer, I have wrote only 15 offers in the past 3 years. I have no idea how to avoid the agent. Any chance you can post a link to a sample offer form we could use to do as you suggest?

FalconMaster says

I would love to see a show called House Hunters: Five Years Later. They could go around to all those nice houses that people bought during the bubble and see how they look with dead grass, graffiti, and foreclosure signs in the front yard. People could talk about how much better life is when you aren’t a slave to an interest-only, adjustable rate mortgage on an overpriced POS with ugly green granite counters and cheap particleboard cherry veneer cabinets.

I would also love to watch this show.

zzyzzx says

I would also love to watch this show.

Then get on hulu dot com! I just realized they have it :)

http://www.hulu.com/watch/177846/house-hunters-new-hampshire-new-home
I love how that episode's guests made a comment about the blue walls make it seem like "you're underwater." Little did they know....

I used to watch that show back in 2003 and 2004 when all the episodes took place in the Greater Los Angeles area. At the time, the show kept the prices and locations of the houses a well-hidden secret and it was hosted by Suzanne Whang. The show was very redundant and formulaic. Each episode showed a buyer looking at three houses. Then near the end of the show, each house was briefly shown and given a nick name such as "the house with the large yard" and Whang would ask "So which house did they choose? Stay tuned to find out". All I can say is that every buyer had horrible taste and almost always complained about "not having enough room".

We love this show. The format has a way of making milquetoast people appear even more stupid than they probably are. The way they trudge through the houses like zombies, complaining about not enough closets, they don't like the wall color (this one makes me laugh every time), there isn't enough granite in the kitchen or marble in the bathroom, etc. Clueless.

The older version of the show used to have a fake bidding thing at the end, where they would pretend to be waiting by the phone for their Real Estate Huckster to call them with the good news. You could tell they were scripted. It was the height of silliness. Funny thing is the real estate agent was usually pretty good at delivering her lines. . . . Too bad they don't do this bit anymore. It really did send my partner and me into stitches

Philistine says

We love this show. The format has a way of making milquetoast people appear even more stupid than they probably are. The way they trudge through the houses like zombies, complaining about not enough closets, they don’t like the wall color (this one makes me laugh every time), there isn’t enough granite in the kitchen or marble in the bathroom, etc. Clueless.
The older version of the show used to have a fake bidding thing at the end, where they would pretend to be waiting by the phone for their Real Estate Huckster to call them with the good news. You could tell they were scripted. It was the height of silliness. Funny thing is the real estate agent was usually pretty good at delivering her lines. . . . Too bad they don’t do this bit anymore. It really did send my partner and me into stitches

The suspense of waiting to find out if the bid went through was excruciating!

BobbyS says

excruciating!

Lordy, wasn't it?! You could just be sick with the suspense.

High camp at its finest.

Oh man I just started watching this show on Hulu a bit back from time to time and I have to wonder, are home buyers REALLY like that?

Do they really go "WOWWWWWW!!! Ohhhh ahhhhh This is niceeeee!" in real life? Doesn't that pretty much kill ANY negotiating room you have if the seller's agent sees that you really love the place and would pay 10x your annual salary for the place?