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A Modest Proposal


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2008 Jan 24, 12:55am   31,148 views  323 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

out of reach

How about some legislation with the express intent to LOWER house prices, unlike the crap legislation we're getting from Pelosi and Barney Frank designed to make housing less affordable?

We should completely eliminate Fannie Mae, and after that, the mortgage interest income deduction.

Here are some more ideas from Steve, a patrick.net reader:

the goals should be something like to promote home ownership by
discouraging flipping and owning multiple residences

promote homeownership but discourage multiple residences:
- remove the mortgage rate deduction for all but the primary residence.
- second home/first investment property/ vacation property will have
no mortage deduction and no additional tax
- third home will carry a 10% annual tax
- fourth home will carry a 20% annual tax
- fifth home 30% tax
- sixth home 40% tax
- etc

discourage flipping:
- 35% tax on sale of property held for less then 6 months
- for property held less 6 months to 1 year will prorate down to 0%

i'm not sure what the legal issues are in putting something on the
ballet, i'm a tech person like yourself, maybe you can ask on your
site for someone with experience in that? or a section of your site
for brainstorming this?

#housing

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41   anonymous   2008 Jan 24, 3:49am  

PeeterPee - back before McFood, there were seasonal variations, and a huge variety of dishes. Look in cookbooks from the 1920s and earlier, look into food history.

The food arguement is lame, lame, lame.

42   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 3:51am  

I don't eat McFood and I love seasonal variations.

I like Chicken a la King and Oyster Rockefeller. Both are old recipes.

Food from earlier days tend to be very rich though. (Hence the reference to Rockefeller)

43   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 3:52am  

The food arguement is lame, lame, lame.

Not arguing with you.

44   skibum   2008 Jan 24, 3:53am  

Religion is good. Faith is essential.

But there's a distinction. "Faith" is fine by me. Organized "religion" has done the world no good, and it's been misused in every part of the world for secular and evil purposes.

I believe in God, but I find almost all organized religion offensive.

45   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 3:54am  

I believe in God, but I find almost all organized religion offensive.

Want to start one?

46   DinOR   2008 Jan 24, 3:59am  

"Want to start one?"

Yes!

The Faith Ministries of Eternal Real Estate Appreciation Church!

47   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 4:00am  

Humans can misuse anything. This is why I have zero faith in humanity.

48   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 4:01am  

The Faith Ministries of Eternal Real Estate Appreciation Church!

I am thinking about one that allows people to worship themselves. It is about feeling good about oneself. :)

49   Randy H   2008 Jan 24, 4:01am  

I find ignorance offensive. Sadly, it's in no short supply these days; and worse yet seems to be in high demand.

To wit, some ignoramus jackass quoting you-know-who. Hey, did you manage to crawl out of your cave long enough to actually research your misstatements denying your hero's murders in Ohio in 1987? Care to clear the record? Or do you get a wet spot in the pants playing pretend white warrior from behind your pseudo-anonymous screen name?

(And for the record, "Fuhrer" is not a verboten term in German. It is used for things like "boy scout leader", for example. But Wehrmacht wannabees don't speak German, as a general rule.)

50   Chuck Ponzi   2008 Jan 24, 4:07am  

Jeebus,

Has everyone forgotten that the main reason that rental properties are profitable over for-consumption housing has nothing to do with interest tax deduction, but the deduction of depreciation?

Let me be the first to ask a simple question:

Why do we allow people to take a tax depreciation expense over 30 years when property values "always go up"?

If that truly is the case, wouldn't you be charging landlords extra tax every year for the capital gains? Worst part is... it just gets 1031'd until the person dies and no tax is ever paid on it. Think about that for a minute. If you want to make it a level playing field, make it truly level so landlords can only deduct what homeowners can deduct, and you'll see prices change on their own and we won't be giving tax breaks to some of the richest.

Chuck Ponzi

PS, I'm a capitalist, not a socialist.

51   e   2008 Jan 24, 4:17am  

That is why Congress, the Pres, and all the hangers-on are working furiously to keep this Boomer-conceived clusterfuck that is today’s housing situation and economy. This country will never pass any laws to shoot down the “American Dream” of homeownership.

But without false hope, what would there be?

False hope is essential to any organization in succeeding:

-Startups: Stock options will turn you into googlaire.

-Religion: Heaven, reincarnation into something better, etc.

-America: Mentioned above

-Stores: Buy your way into happiness and success

Without false hope, you'd end up churning out very disgruntled people with too much free time on their hands - like suicide bombers, etc.

52   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 4:19am  

But I rather be a net seller of false hope. :)

53   DennisN   2008 Jan 24, 4:27am  

Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod.

54   e   2008 Jan 24, 4:31am  

Real estate is saved!!!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-stimulus25jan25,1,2503104.story?track=rss

The package also includes a provision to make refinancing mortgages easier by raising the limit to $625,500 for government-backed loans. That is expected to make more funds available to homeowners in expensive real estate markets such as Southern California who want to get out of their adjustable rate mortgages.

Mountain View condos median to be $625,500 immediately after the 4th quarter of the SuperBowl. (Go Pats!)

55   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 4:32am  

GLD is way up.

56   DennisN   2008 Jan 24, 4:43am  

The legislation would temporarily raise that limit to $625,500...

Nothing is more eternal than a "temporary" government program.

They charged two bits to cross the Golden Gate bridge "temporarily" until the construction bonds were paid off. The bonds were paid off 50 years ago. Do they still charge tolls?

The more I think about it, the more I like my plan: tax cap gains as ordinary income BUT increase the basis figure year-by-year with an inflation multiplier. I think this is the thinking behind the current system but it's much too crude.

57   DinOR   2008 Jan 24, 4:45am  

So here we are having a discussion about being altogether too generous toward 'real estates' and they raise the Jumbo limit to 6 and a quarter.

Yea Team....

What do they mean by "temporary"? Is this going to go on just long enough for FB's to re-fi out of their loan-from-hell or is this (obviously) intended for new purchase loans as well? That we could get the NAR some much needed commissions.

58   DennisN   2008 Jan 24, 4:51am  

And I wonder what the definition of a "high cost area" will be.

59   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 4:53am  

And I wonder what the definition of a “high cost area” will be.

Wherever people will vote for democrats.

60   DennisN   2008 Jan 24, 4:54am  

am not a fan of Korean food but we must respect the civil liberties of those who like kimchee.

My grandmother was born in Korea in 1893, so to me kimchee is soul food. Hey, it's just Korean saurkraut!

61   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 4:59am  

I do like bean sprout and anything with oxtail. :)

62   OO   2008 Jan 24, 5:01am  

Bad news for those who love kimchee. Seoul University published a paper linking kimchee consumption to the very high incidence of stomach cancer among Koreans (Koreans have the highest rate of stomach cancer in the world). Interestingly, statistics show that even Korean Americans have the highest and earliest incidence of stomach cancer among all Asian Americans.

The Seoul University paper was released at a time when Korean government was trying to promote Kimchee as a health food to the world. So the researchers were silenced by denied further grants for their research.

63   LowlySmartRenter   2008 Jan 24, 5:03am  

DinOR, about the "super-outrageously-generous-beyond-belief tax treatment 2nd homes get", I'm with you. I don't believe the tax code should encourage or discourage home ownership. Not even for 1 house. Imagine that, buyers assessing the actual cost of ownership instead of deluding themselves that mortgage debt is actually "wealth"?

64   DinOR   2008 Jan 24, 5:04am  

So where were the Dems on this one? Instead of insisting on addressing the very issues we're discussing Pelosi wants to make sure even people that don't make enough to PAY taxes get a "rebate" check?

Why didn't they at least demand we enforce our current tax code? Are things really this bad?

65   OO   2008 Jan 24, 5:05am  

This is actually not paranoia, I know quite a few Koreans who started having stomach cancer in their 40s.

http://tinyurl.com/ysxvxn

"Stomach Cancer a Concern Among Koreans

Stomach cancer is much more common among people of Korean ancestry than other Asian groups, and death rates from this disease are highest among Koreans. The typical Korean diet, which includes many foods that are high in salt and nitrates/nitrites, may be part of the reason stomach cancer rates are so high."

66   OO   2008 Jan 24, 5:07am  

Be happy, at least it is not $700K.

Now HelloKitty can stay in the US instead of moving to France.

67   DinOR   2008 Jan 24, 5:12am  

LSR,

Can you believe this? Well... we often joked about "where was the bail-out for daytraders" and I guess we got our answer.

Hank looks a mess btw, necktie askew, shirt looks like he slept in it. Must have pulled a lot of all-nighters to come up w/ this "great steaming turd". If they're THAT concerned about shriveling tax bases from foreclosed subdivisions why don't we just enforce the tax code we have now?

Like Randy said, can't we have a little... faith in free markets? This is totally embarrassing.

68   skibum   2008 Jan 24, 5:21am  

I am thinking about one that allows people to worship themselves. It is about feeling good about oneself.

It already exists. It's called Boomerism.

69   peng_us   2008 Jan 24, 5:34am  

When can we expect to get the increased conforming loan limit in effect? This will probably boost house prices, at least in the short term.

70   tannenbaum   2008 Jan 24, 5:44am  

Actually, if you read some of the news articles regarding this mateer closely (i.e., CNBC) , the increase in the comforming limit is only temporary - one year.

71   OO   2008 Jan 24, 5:46am  

Don't worry, the one-year temp limit will stick.

We are already on this track of "fuck the dollar, fuck the USD bagholders". If housing price starts coming down drastically, this limit will be extended for another year, another year...

72   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 5:47am  

So the researchers were silenced by denied further grants for their research.

Triumph of food!!!

Cancer is caused by stress, not food.

73   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 5:49am  

Koreans are also hyper-competitive. They lead high-stress lives.

74   HiThere   2008 Jan 24, 5:53am  

Where's the market heading? I thought we started a BEAR market. Microsoft just had a blow out Quarter. I know some of you predicted market last year as per as where DOW would end at the end of 2007. What do you think this time?

75   Peter P   2008 Jan 24, 5:54am  

Like Randy said, can’t we have a little… faith in free markets?

Faith? Liberals are anti-faith.

76   HeadSet   2008 Jan 24, 5:56am  

If housing price starts coming down drastically, this limit will be extended for another year, another year…

Not just extended, the limits may be raised.

As long as the attitute is "how can we finance high prices" and not "how can we bring prices down to affordable levels" we will see even more creative ways to prop up prices.

A month ago, did anyone really see the "rebate" trick? Some saw a possible raise in "conforming" loans limits, but did any expect what happened? My point is, be prepared for new surprises.

77   DinOR   2008 Jan 24, 5:58am  

OO,

Agreed. By that time it will be "given the current inflationary environment..." and become a real knee-slapper inside the Beltway.

Yuck, yuck :)

78   DinOR   2008 Jan 24, 6:01am  

Headset,

As a matter of fact if you had tried to tell me that... even a month ago, I would have told you to curtail your "heady credit-toking ways"!

79   HeadSet   2008 Jan 24, 6:06am  

DinOR,

Nice phrase! Lots of big guns pulling for the "credit tokers." Seems Washington wants to keeep current tokers supplied and create new addicts.

80   DinOR   2008 Jan 24, 6:23am  

Headset,

Love to take credit for that gem but it's all... *skibum!

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