patrick.net

lostand confused says

Strategist says

Lets have a simplified tax code. Flat tax - no loopholes. That should actually be #5.

That will never fly. All the takers and the welfare cases will have to pay taxes . Oh wait-they don't have income, live off our taxes and cry about the 1%.

Not really. Flat tax at 17% is revenue neutral as per billionaire Forbes.
The needy will not be affected.

indigenous says

Oh ok, but is there a danger that the guys who own companies will take their ball and go home because they are tired of being stopped from making a profit, after all there would be no incentive left for them to try?

Not really. Let them go. There are plenty of people who would start new companies to fill the gap if they left. It's an empty threat anyway, because we all know they would never leave.

indigenous says

tatupu70 says

Does that also apply to SEIU, CALPERS workers?

Not sure what you mean--the unions don't typically hire people. People join the union after they are hired. So, doesn't really apply

Ok I was just wondering because they have grown in numbers over the past few years and they average about twice as much as private sector workers so they are starting to resemble them rich fellers you were talking about.

Let's not get distracted into a public union discussion again. But I will comment that if you think union workers are "rich fellers" then you aren't paying attention.

lostand confused says

That was already tried in the last century. it was called communism.

Actually it was tried in the last century. It was called the 30 years or so post WWII in the US. Until Reagan came along...

indigenous says

Them billionaires are pretty smart fellers (I guess that is why they are billionaires) they will figure out ways to get around paying the taxes.

Really--do you have any evidence of correlation between intelligence and wealth?

Strategist says

Lets have a simplified tax code. Flat tax - no loopholes. That should actually be #5.

lol--that is the WORST tax structure. If you want to increase wealth disparity, this is the way to do it.

Strategist says

Not really. Flat tax at 17% is revenue neutral as per billionaire Forbes.

The needy will not be affected.

You're delusional. If the rich are paying less, then who is paying more?

Bring back jobs from overseas. I remember when we had all the jobs in America, it was great, unemployment was by choice those days. But today, that's not the case... increasingly crappier jobs, lower pay, and worse economy for working men and women.

And I blame it all on outsourcing, because I've seen how thousands of jobs gone overseas and communities left to struggle with no jobs and pick themselves up.

tatupu70 says

NOW-if money were redistributed to the lower 50%,

Redistribute.... LOL yea and when thats all spent what next ?

indigenous says

Them billionaires are pretty smart fellers (I guess that is why they are billionaires) they will figure out ways to get around paying the taxes.

Billions of after tax savings... well the Billionaires give it away.. so they

are not taxed...

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Not really. Flat tax at 17% is revenue neutral as per billionaire Forbes.

The needy will not be affected.

You're delusional. If the rich are paying less, then who is paying more?

Please understand it first. The first $33,00 would not be taxed. Closing the loopholes and deductions is why it would be revenue neutral.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Forbes

I highlighted this part for you:

His flat tax plan has changed slightly. In 1996 he supported a flat tax of 17% on all personal and corporate earned income (unearned income such as capital gains, pensions, inheritance, and savings would be exempt.) However, he supported keeping the first $33,000 of income exempt. In 2000 he maintained the same plan, but instead of each person receiving an exemption of $33,000, it more closely resembled the Armey Plan (Forbes' version called for a $13,000 per adult and $5,000 per dependent deduction). Forbes himself is very wealthy, with a net worth in 1996 of $430 million.[4] In response to this criticism, Forbes promised in his 2000 campaign to exempt himself from the benefits of the flat tax, although he did support the repeal of the 16th Amendment in a debate with Alan Keyes the previous year.

FortWayne says

Bring back jobs from overseas. I remember when we had all the jobs in America, it was great, unemployment was by choice those days. But today, that's not the case... increasingly crappier jobs, lower pay, and worse economy for working men and women.

And I blame it all on outsourcing, because I've seen how thousands of jobs gone overseas and communities left to struggle with no jobs and pick themselves up

Best Answer here by a mile... and of course who is the road block...

" Those jobs are not coming back - Bill Clinton "

Get rid of the road blocks and distractions and get American jobs

back to in the hand of the American people... let them be masters

of their own destiny.

thomaswong.1986 says

FortWayne says

Bring back jobs from overseas. I remember when we had all the jobs in America, it was great, unemployment was by choice those days. But today, that's not the case... increasingly crappier jobs, lower pay, and worse economy for working men and women.

And I blame it all on outsourcing, because I've seen how thousands of jobs gone overseas and communities left to struggle with no jobs and pick themselves up

Best Answer here by a mile... and of course who is the road block...

" Those jobs are not coming back - Bill Clinton "

Get rid of the road blocks and distractions and get American jobs

back to in the hand of the American people... let them be masters

of their own destiny.

Guys, I am sorry to break it to you, but that is not gonna happen.
The world is getting smaller, we are steadily moving towards free trade, and there is no going back.
This country has a lot going for it to be competitive and beat the shit out of everyone else. Lets work on that.

Strategist says

Only up to high school. It should be free all the way to PhD.

With scholarships it can be. The problem is its overkill for most careers.

Ph.D. work also pays terribly for up to a decade. Coupled with the bachelors that's nearly 1/3 of one's working years with minimal or even negative earnings.

New Renter says

Strategist says

Only up to high school. It should be free all the way to PhD.

With scholarships it can be. The problem is its overkill for most careers.

That is right. What good is a history or an arts major. A total waste of scarce resources.
We need to divert more resources towards the sciences and business majors. Even vocational skills. But not humanities.

Strategist says

Guys, I am sorry to break it to you, but that is not gonna happen.

The world is getting smaller, we are steadily moving towards free trade, and there is no going back.

This country has a lot going for it to be competitive and beat the shit out of everyone else. Lets work on that.

It's a system that makes labor cheaper and wealthy wealthier. Race to the bottom. Sure this country has a lot of going for it, but if it doesn't trickle down to an average American it doesn't matter to an average American.

Strategist says

We need to divert more resources towards the sciences and business majors.

We already have an excess of scientists. We really don't need more. Programmers and hardware engineers we could use.

FortWayne says

Strategist says

Guys, I am sorry to break it to you, but that is not gonna happen.

The world is getting smaller, we are steadily moving towards free trade, and there is no going back.

This country has a lot going for it to be competitive and beat the shit out of everyone else. Lets work on that.

It's a system that makes labor cheaper and wealthy wealthier. Race to the bottom. Sure this country has a lot of going for it, but if it doesn't trickle down to an average American it doesn't matter to an average American.

That is a very common argument by those who oppose free trade agreements.
What happens is :
1. Those with limited marketable skills lose out.
2. Those with high skills come out ahead.
3. The standard of living of the general population increases.
4. The developing countries in the 3rd world benefit the most, but so do we.

What can I say, but you have to face reality. There is no turning back the clock on free trade.

Strategist says

We need to divert more resources towards the sciences and business majors. Even vocational skills. But not humanities.

We can't all be science majors, the way markets work... when everyone goes into one direction... that direction becomes really really cheap and miserable for the working class.

New Renter says

Strategist says

We need to divert more resources towards the sciences and business majors.

We already have an excess of scientists. We really don't need more. Programmers and hardware engineers we could use.

We have very few, which is why we import them from India and China.

FortWayne says

Strategist says

We need to divert more resources towards the sciences and business majors. Even vocational skills. But not humanities.

We can't all be science majors, the way markets work... when everyone goes into one direction... that direction becomes really really cheap and miserable for the working class.

I would agree. Not everyone goes into these fields because it is difficult.
It is easier to flip burgers, which is why it pays peanuts.

Strategist says

Guys, I am sorry to break it to you, but that is not gonna happen.

The world is getting smaller, we are steadily moving towards free trade, and there is no going back.

you remove the roadblocks...

free trade zones ... no such thing

href="http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_agreements_index_e.htm?id=A6#selected_agreement" >http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_agreements_index_e.htm?id=A6#selected_agreement

tatupu70 says

indigenous says

Them billionaires are pretty smart fellers (I guess that is why they are billionaires) they will figure out ways to get around paying the taxes.

Really--do you have any evidence of correlation between intelligence and wealth?

So Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, them Google fellers aren't smarter than the average bear? Please learn me some something regarding this?

Strategist says

We have very few, which is why we import them from India and China.

shortage.. like the onese we had in 70s 80s and 90s but managed anyway.

with fewer tech companies and the most heaviest work behind ... why import?

DIVERSITY... thats all ! you have to be some rainbow of colors...

Its absolutely outrageous you have all those white people working in Silicon Valley...

FortWayne says

Strategist says

We need to divert more resources towards the sciences and business majors. Even vocational skills. But not humanities.

We can't all be science majors, the way markets work... when everyone goes into one direction... that direction becomes really really cheap and miserable for the working class.

Well the reality is that when the Chinese devalued their currency it gave them a huge advantage that sucked jobs out of this country like a Monica Lewinsky. Don't be too outraged because before them the Japanese did the same thing and before them the US did the same thing back in the 20s.

The good news is that the Chinese are going to take it in the ass for the foreseeable future. One Caveat they might go to war to solve their financial problems. Barring war the Yuan is going to have a higher value and jobs are going to be leaving China.

thomaswong.1986 says

Redistribute.... LOL yea and when thats all spent what next ?

lol is right. The money doesn't go away. You are really clueless about how an economy works...

Strategist says

Please understand it first. The first $33,00 would not be taxed. Closing the loopholes and deductions is why it would be revenue neutral.

I understand it fine. I'll ask again--if the 1% are paying less, then who is paying more to make it revenue neutral?

Strategist says

That is a very common argument by those who oppose free trade agreements.

What happens is :

1. Those with limited marketable skills lose out.

2. Those with high skills come out ahead.

3. The standard of living of the general population increases.

4. The developing countries in the 3rd world benefit the most, but so do we.

What can I say, but you have to face reality. There is no turning back the clock on free trade.

How exactly do we benefit?

indigenous says

So Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, them Google fellers aren't smarter than the average bear? Please learn me some something regarding this?

I don't know. How about Paris Hilton? Kim Kardashian?

tatupu70 says

lol is right. The money doesn't go away. You are really clueless about how an economy works...

sounds like your in favor or Tax refunds..

thomaswong.1986 says

sounds like your in favor or Tax refunds...

What the heck are you talking about?

Strategist says

We have very few, which is why we import them from India and China.

You are kidding right?

tatupu70 says

ndigenous says

So Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, them Google fellers aren't smarter than the average bear? Please learn me some something regarding this?

I don't know. How about Paris Hilton? Kim Kardashian ?

So you equate Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian with the aforementioned? really? wow? I mean I'm sure they give good head but besides that WTF?

indigenous says

So you equate Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian with the aforementioned? really? wow? I mean I'm sure they give good head but besides that WTF?

We're talking about the rich, right? I equate them as all having lots of money.

That's my point--if you take a cross section of the 1%, most don't look like Gates or Bezos....

tatupu70 says

We're talking about the rich, right? I equate them as all having lots of money.

Well let me learn you something, one of the key skills in life is the ability to determine differences. This a basic tenet of logic. Do you see that Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian are different from the aforementioned?

indigenous says

Well let me learn you something, one of the key skills in life is the ability to determine differences. This a basic tenet of logic. Do you see that Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian are different from the aforementioned?

Of course. Again--that was my point. You seem to believe that all rich folks are like Gates and Bezos. The reality is that there are a LOT of them like Paris Hilton.

Do you see the point now?

tatupu70 says

Of course. Again--that was my point. You seem to believe that all rich folks are like Gates and Bezos. The reality is that there are a LOT of them like Paris Hilton.

Do you see the point now?

More often than not they resemble the former more than the later?

I don't recall the aforementioned with a but ugly piggmy yapper dog

The Gates and Bezos are the ones who created the wealth, while the Paris Hilton's are the ones who inherited it. As most billionaires will eventually pass on their wealth, we have to assume the Paris Hilton ones are larger in number.
Won't that be right?

Strategist says

The Gates and Bezos are the ones who created the wealth, while the Paris Hilton's are the ones who inherited it. As most billionaires will eventually pass on their wealth, we have to assume the Paris Hilton ones are larger in number.

Won't that be right?

Vastly less than your Berkeley ass would think.

indigenous says

Strategist says

The Gates and Bezos are the ones who created the wealth, while the Paris Hilton's are the ones who inherited it. As most billionaires will eventually pass on their wealth, we have to assume the Paris Hilton ones are larger in number.

Won't that be right?

Vastly less than your Berkeley ass would think.

Ouch!
Independents get kicked around by both sides, and they are the only ones who are seldom biased.

Strategist says

Ouch!

Independents get kicked around by both sides, and they are the only ones who are seldom biased.

I assume you are Roberto?