patrick.net

Automan Empire says

socal2 says

Bush and his foreign policies for trying to drag the 1000X worse Muslim/Arab

world into the 21st century on "social matters"

I've heard many justifications for those wars, but this is a new one on me.

Well, god did tell Bush to invade Iraq according to Bush himself. So either Bush is a liar on the same level as a 5-year-old or he's fucking crazy. Take your pick. Just remember that this idiot had the nuclear codes the next time you wonder whether or not religion is harmful.

FortWayne says

Liberals can't coherently explain anything here.

I call bullshit. I am the quintessential definition of liberal. Point out one thing that I have failed to explained coherently. Any subject.

Call it Crazy says

Dan8267 says

Point out one thing that I have failed to explained coherently. Any subject.

We don't have the weeks to list them all.....

Translation: I can't think of any, so I'll lie and imply that there are a lot while failing to list even one.

As a Liberal, it's not a situation that is first thing on my mind when I wake up every day. Yes it's a serious matter. But I don't control what is "hot news" any more than you do.

On the other hand, if this were the 1960's would you be arguing that we shouldn't report on civil rights marches and so on, because that's not about the economy which is all important? Human rights is a valid issue.

Everybody has a beef with something that is reported. I despise all the celebrity crap, but somebody else is really into it, so they make good money reporting what Bieber and Cyrus are up to right?

Vicente says

On the other hand, if this were the 1960's would you be arguing that we shouldn't report on civil rights marches and so on, because that's not about the economy which is all important?

Until the economy is perfect, only economic news should be reported. Oh yeah, and the War on Christmas. And how many babies die in abortion clinics. And how Obama bowed to a Saudi King. And most of all, Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi!

But nothing else. Nothing else at all!

Dan8267 says

Well, god did tell Bush to invade Iraq according to Bush himself.

More incoherence.

You do realize that this quote came from the Palestinian Authority President Minister Abu Abbas who is currently serving his 10th year of his 4 year elected term?

You believe the shit Putin and Kim-Jong Un say too?

socal2 says

Why did you say Russia need to be dragged into the 21st century based on their policies against gays?

I didn't. Automan Empire did.

Russia needs to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century in social matters.

I know I look a lot like Hello Kitty, but do try to distinguish between us.

Nonetheless, I agree with Empire's statement. It is extremely dangerous to allow that nutcase Putin to reinstate a Dark Age in Russia, turning the population and its state into a tyrannical theocracy. The Middle Ages proved that Christianity is every bit as dangerous as Islam. The only reason that Christianity does not do as much harm today is because hard-core atheists and rationalists like me have managed to fight the religious every time they violate separation of church and state. We don't always win those battle, but the mere fight keeps the Christian nutjobs in check.

If Putin does in Russia what Fox News wants to do in America, turn it into a Christian theocracy, then Russia will be every bit as bad as the Middle East. Same for America.

And just remember, the combination of religious fever and nuclear weapons is incompatible with continued human existence.

Dan8267 says

1. The Middle Eastern Islamic world does need to be dragged into the 21st
century.
2. Using violence and 1st century religion is NOT the way to bring
them into the 21st century.

Well - based on the massive death toll in Syria (which is now higher than Iraqi in 3 short years) and increasing strength of Al Qaeda in the Region since Obama pulled all US troops from Iraq - I think it is going to take more than the internet or finger wagging from the West on the other side of the planet to modernize the Muslim/Arab world.

I think many people foolishly assume that all civilizations progress by force of nature or over time.

But look at how much more modern places like Egypt and even Afghanistan were to women and non-Muslim minorities in the 1970's. Much of the Muslim/Arab world have gone backwards in the last 4 decades and are even more extreme today. More women are wearing burqas today than in the 1970's and virtually every last Jew, Christian, Hindu and Bahai have been forced out of the Region by threat of violence from extremist Muslims.

How does the civilized world address this type of violence, bigotry and cultural devolution?

socal2 says

I think it is going to take more than the internet or finger wagging from the West on the other side of the planet to modernize the Muslim/Arab world.

No shit, but don't underestimate the power of media. It's not a coincidence that the progressive movement and the woman's suffrage movement happened after the invention of the radio; that the civil rights and anti-war movement happened after the invention of the television; and that the Arab spring happened after the invention of the Internet.

The more ideas are exchanged freely across political boundaries, the harder it is for tyrants to remain in power and the harder it is for governments to suppress huge sections of their populations for any reason. History has clearly demonstrated this.

socal2 says

How does the civilized world address this type of violence, bigotry and cultural devolution?

- Science education
- Telecommunications
- Fair trade
- Link trade with human rights
- Stop using the military for selfish interests

Dan - the Muslim/Arab world has gotten more primitive and intolerant with the advent of the internet, TV, radio. So your list is bunk.

Islamist extremists see technology and modernization as a threat and use violence to consolidate their power.

The Taliban throw acid in faces of little girls who want to go to school and learn to read.

The Commies in the Khmer Rouge killed people who had glasses because they were thought they could read (and educated) and a threat to the the "cause".

How is science, fair trade and telecommunciations going to deal with stuff like that?

socal2 says

Dan - the Muslim/Arab world has gotten more primitive and intolerant with the advent of the internet, TV, radio. So your list is bunk.

Really? You took measurements? Please provide them. I want to see exactly how many units of primitiveness and intolerance have increased in the Middle East since those events along with the DateTime stamps of the measurements.

Also, what units are you using in those measurements? I want to make sure I use the same: metrics or English.

socal2 says

The Taliban throw acid in faces of little girls who want to go to school and learn to read.

Precisely because those girls are now threatening their power. That's proof of progress. Painful proof, but proof nonetheless. The cowards throw that acid precisely because things are changing and they are losing the battle over the suppression of women.

For the exact same reason, all the bigots have come out of the woodwork after Obama was elected president and after states started recognizing same-sex marriages. Why would the GOP hate blacky-mc-blackinstien so much when he implements all of their plans? Oh yeah, because he's still black while he does it.

socal2 says

How is science, fair trade and telecommunciations going to deal with stuff like that?

Same way it did in that festering backwaters of ignorance and stupidity known as America.

Dan8267 says

Really? You took measurements? Please provide them. I want to see exactly how
many units of primitiveness and intolerance have increased in the Middle East
since those events along with the DateTime stamps of the measurements

You think this stuff is in dispute?

Here is the Arab Human Development Report from the UN.
http://www.arab-hdr.org/

It documents and measures how the Arab world is falling behind the rest of the planet and regressing.

"Self-doomed to failure"
An unsparing new report by Arab scholars explains why their region lags behind so much of the world
http://www.economist.com/node/1213392

Dan8267 says

Precisely because those girls are now threatening their power. That's proof of
progress. Painful proof, but proof nonetheless.

Dan - these girls had more freedoms 20-30 years ago. How is this progress?

I repeat, any normal republican (let alone a moderate one or a democrat or a liberal) reads this thread and thinks Fort wayne is a totally moronic douchebag.

FortWayne says

nything to avoid talking about economy, or why Obama keeps bailing out the bankers, or why Snowden ran from Obama.

sbh says

FortWayne says

Automan Empire says

So why do you think gay peoples' lives should be meddled with and discriminated against?

Way to go prove me wrong there about your clown party priorities...

Way to continue with your cowardice. You can't even mouth the words, can you? You "god and country" rednecks want so desperately to represent manhood in America, but you, as so many of you, are just a gutless punk. C'mon. Man-up and answer the question.

There was a question in there that a normal person would care about? You think I care about gays in Russia, or actually believe they are oppressed. You think I care about stray dogs in Sochi, or homeless cats in Los Angeles? Or the one that just kills me, unfair treatment of stray dogs, man that was some piece on NPR...

You guys are hilarious, you better wait for more marching orders from your god Obama, he'll communicate his wishes to you via MSNBC. Stay tuned.

FortWayne says

? You think I care

Well obviously you don't, so why don't you go yell at the kids to get off your lawn with their noise again, K?

socal2 says

Dan - these girls had more freedoms 20-30 years ago. How is this progress?

Wall Street Journal: Facebook and Twitter Are Changing the Middle East

Dan8267 says

Precisely because those girls are now threatening their power. That's proof of progress. Painful proof, but proof nonetheless. The cowards throw that acid precisely because things are changing and they are losing the battle over the suppression of women.

Dan, Taliban is a modern creature. Afghanistan has been located at the crossroad of various major world cultural winds for thousands of years. It was not for nothing that the Ancient Greek King Alexander the Great married an Afghan princess. Numerous branches of Hinduism / Budhism, Christianity and Islam came and went, usually leaving behind little mountainous cantons like those in Switzerland. Any organic religion in that place has to be practical and reasonably tolerant in order to build followings locally and sustain itself in that environment, including most Islamic sects that managed to grow organically there.

Taliban is a Wahabist nightmare entirely financed by foreigners (Saudi oil money and US/Pakistan intelligence services). Its fundamentalist tract makes about as much sense to traditional muslims as snake charming pastors would seem to mainstream Christians. Just like those born-again Christian sects, Taliban anti-modernism is a reaction to modern society.

Dan8267 says

Until the economy is perfect, only economic news should be reported. Oh yeah, and the War on Christmas. And how many babies die in abortion clinics. And how Obama bowed to a Saudi King. And most of all, Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi!

But nothing else. Nothing else at all!

Also that Obama takes vacations once in a great while, how dare he ??!!!!

Good catch.

sbh says

It was obvious to anyone with a highschool education that the challenge you're too yellow to answer is about gay people in general and in America specifically. So C'MON PUNK, WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM WITH THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION? Can you read? Can you? Can you grasp EQUAL PROTECTION? Why are you so gutless and so primitive?

Another great deal of you communist lefties, you want equality. Pretty soon you'll all be equally poor with nothing to show for it. Young fools, no brain yet, but think they know it all.

I guess we all were young once, and we all were dumb, but man we were never that stupid.

Vicente says

Also that Obama takes vacations once in a great while, how dare he ??!!!!

Obama just plays golf all day long, occasionally he breaks his game to go rant about republicans. But that's really about it. He is good for nothing, like the left of the liberals.

FortWayne says

Another great deal of you communist lefties, you want equality. Pretty soon you'll all be equally poor with nothing to show for it. Young fools, no brain yet, but think they know it all.

I guess we all were young once, and we all were dumb, but man we were never that stupid.

I've got some news for you: Calling anything that isn't totally agreeable and inline with right-leaning ideology "communist" is the most worn-out piece of nonsense in the book. Sure- McCarthy was able to succeed at doing that... until he was disgraced and basically turned into a laughing stock once enough people called out his bullshit.

Secondly, if you want to talk communism in the sense that is meant to indicate Democrats as "spreading the wealth", well I recall having a similar discussion last week over the same thing. If Democrats are spreading the wealth then what exactly do you call what the GOP has been doing for over 30 years, where a certain, highly wealthy chunk of the population is unfairly taxed a far lower rate while the bulk of the population pays more of their paychecks? Folks on the right like to go on and on about a fictional assertion that the left spreads the wealth while the GOP has in reality taken the wealth away from the bulk of the country and handily stuffed it to the top. If that's not distribution I dont know what is.

Vicente says

As a Liberal, it's not a situation that is first thing on my mind when I wake up every day. Yes it's a serious matter. But I don't control what is "hot news" any more than you do.

On the other hand, if this were the 1960's would you be arguing that we shouldn't report on civil rights marches and so on, because that's not about the economy which is all important? Human rights is a valid issue.

Everybody has a beef with something that is reported. I despise all the celebrity crap, but somebody else is really into it, so they make good money reporting what Bieber and Cyrus are up to right?

Sorry, but I can't buy that any so called "liberal" is on a civil rights crusade because they are friends of the LGBT folk, unless they are equally or more so, vocal about ending the war on drugs. The heinous atrocities that so many suffer thru, both south of our borders, and domestically, trump any so called inconveniencies that the gays suffer thru, by an order of magnitude many times over.

American gays are not under any type of duress, conversely, those affected by the tenacles of the WOD are treated worse than a jew in nazi germany

errc says

trump any so called inconveniencies that the gays suffer thru, by an order of magnitude many times over.

American gays are not under any type of duress,

http://www.youtube.com/embed/TOsgy7CYnMI

I watched the youtube dan, I'm just not sure what you are attempting to convey. That some individuals discriminate. There are plenty laws in place to protect against such discrimination.

The war on people that choose to use drugs is a different story. There is nothing to protect us all from the insanity that is caused BECAUSE OF BAD POLICY

errc says

I watched the youtube dan, I'm just not sure what you are attempting to convey

Bringing in an unrelated issue doesn't prove a point. The fact is that gays in this country are unfairly discriminated against and in many states do not receive the same treatment as others, just because they are gay. That is a problem. End of story.

errc says

those affected by the tenacles of the WOD are treated worse than a jew in nazi germany

Go on...

errc says

I watched the youtube dan, I'm just not sure what you are attempting to convey.

The ridiculousness of the statement

American gays are not under any type of duress

sbh says

You don't even respect your country's foundational ideas.

America has "Foundational ideas"?

You are something... must be related to edvard2, at least same tribe of constitutional scholars.

FortWayne says

America has "Foundational ideas"?

Yes, America has foundational ideas. For example, "all men are created equal".

FortWayne says

You are something... must be related to edvard2, at least same tribe of constitutional scholars.

Thank You Wayne,
I take pride in my knowledge of the constitution and the rights it says we're all supposed to have. I take then that you too are in support of the Constitution as well?

I wasn't posting for shock value, I'm honestly looking to be informed here. But nobody has offered up any laws that discriminate against homosexuals. I agree its disgusting that some people are bigots, but they come in all shapes and sizes. Have you ever heard of the way that many on this forum, speak about republicans?

So what's the meat and potatoes here fellas

errc says

Have you ever heard of the way that many on this forum, speak about republicans?

It's bigotry to judge a person inferior because of his or her
- skin color
- gender
- sexual orientation
- nationality
- physical deformities
- hair/eye color
- and other arbitrary and irrelevant criteria

It's valid to judge a person inferior because of his or her
- actions
-- rape
-- murder
-- robbery
-- assault
- bad values or lack of good values
-- women who go to school deserve to be scarred with acid or killed
-- slavery is good
-- Jim Crow Laws, Voter ID laws, and other voter suppression techniques are justified
-- It's OK to tax gays more and prevent them from having the same rights as straights
- what they say
-- God hate fags
-- Homosexuality is an abomination
-- Women who have abortions are dirty sluts

There is a huge difference between prejudice (pre-judging) and judging based upon a person's actions. The Republicans deserve most of the criticism levied against them by everyone. The Democrats deserve most of the criticism levied against them by true independents.

errc says

I wasn't posting for shock value, I'm honestly looking to be informed here.

Incredible. Really? Like you somehow DIDn'T know that three quarters of the state's in the US have a ban on same-sex marriages? That's the "meat and potatoes".

Hopefully you are now informed.

Same sex marriage is not a right. Its a privilige that gays are not privy to.

Let's not mince words here

edvard2 says

I take then that you too are in support of the Constitution as well?

Most internet commenters on the Constitution are like this guy:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-c,2849/

In reality, if they were real constitutional experts, they wouldn't ever claim that the entirety of the gigantic parade of horrors they typically talk about is strictly the president's fault. The president has defined constitutional powers that don't allow control over many of those alleged horrors.

errc says

Same sex marriage is not a right. Its a privilige that gays are not privy to.

Ah-ha! And see, that is where you are wrong. Section 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act was declared unconstitutional in 2013, and hence that means that the act of banning same sex marriage is in effect- unconstitutional. So you are wrong. It is in fact a right, and the US supreme court made it as such. corntrollio says

Most internet commenters on the Constitution are like this guy:

Luckily I am not "Like that guy" see the above comments. Thanks.

errc says

Same sex marriage is not a right. Its a privilige that gays are not privy to.

Actually, it is right, no different from interracial marriages, as protected by the 14th Amendment and upheld by the Supreme Court Case of Loving v. Virginia. The arguments made against same-sex marriages are identical to those made against interracial marriages, and the Supreme Court's responses apply equally to both.

I have nothing against gays. I have nothing against gays marrying

I just happen to agree with the premise of the thread, that it is quite the odd issue to prioritize.

Marijuana smokers are jailed by the millions. Obama could easily push to do the right thing and reschedule marijuana, where it ought to be. Non addictive, has medical benefits,,,,,and put an end to the madness. But somehow, that's on the back burner to gay marriage??? SERIOUSLY??

errc says

I have nothing against gays. I have nothing against gays marrying

I just happen to agree with the premise of the thread, that it is quite the odd issue to prioritize.

Marijuana smokers are jailed by the millions. Obama could easily push to do the right thing and reschedule marijuana, where it ought to be. Non addictive, has medical benefits,,,,,and put an end to the madness. But somehow, that's on the back burner to gay marriage??? SERIOUSLY??

The premise of this thread is nonsense to start with. Bringing up an unrelated issue isn't a valid point either. Want to bring up issues that deserve attention? How many days do you want to spend listing them all out? The comments about gay rights were addressed because it is in fact a serious issue, and it also happened to be one of the particular issues addressed in the post.