patrick.net

I watched the youtube dan, I'm just not sure what you are attempting to convey. That some individuals discriminate. There are plenty laws in place to protect against such discrimination.

The war on people that choose to use drugs is a different story. There is nothing to protect us all from the insanity that is caused BECAUSE OF BAD POLICY

errc says

I watched the youtube dan, I'm just not sure what you are attempting to convey

Bringing in an unrelated issue doesn't prove a point. The fact is that gays in this country are unfairly discriminated against and in many states do not receive the same treatment as others, just because they are gay. That is a problem. End of story.

errc says

those affected by the tenacles of the WOD are treated worse than a jew in nazi germany

Go on...

errc says

I watched the youtube dan, I'm just not sure what you are attempting to convey.

The ridiculousness of the statement

American gays are not under any type of duress

sbh says

You don't even respect your country's foundational ideas.

America has "Foundational ideas"?

You are something... must be related to edvard2, at least same tribe of constitutional scholars.

FortWayne says

America has "Foundational ideas"?

Yes, America has foundational ideas. For example, "all men are created equal".

FortWayne says

You are something... must be related to edvard2, at least same tribe of constitutional scholars.

Thank You Wayne,
I take pride in my knowledge of the constitution and the rights it says we're all supposed to have. I take then that you too are in support of the Constitution as well?

I wasn't posting for shock value, I'm honestly looking to be informed here. But nobody has offered up any laws that discriminate against homosexuals. I agree its disgusting that some people are bigots, but they come in all shapes and sizes. Have you ever heard of the way that many on this forum, speak about republicans?

So what's the meat and potatoes here fellas

errc says

Have you ever heard of the way that many on this forum, speak about republicans?

It's bigotry to judge a person inferior because of his or her
- skin color
- gender
- sexual orientation
- nationality
- physical deformities
- hair/eye color
- and other arbitrary and irrelevant criteria

It's valid to judge a person inferior because of his or her
- actions
-- rape
-- murder
-- robbery
-- assault
- bad values or lack of good values
-- women who go to school deserve to be scarred with acid or killed
-- slavery is good
-- Jim Crow Laws, Voter ID laws, and other voter suppression techniques are justified
-- It's OK to tax gays more and prevent them from having the same rights as straights
- what they say
-- God hate fags
-- Homosexuality is an abomination
-- Women who have abortions are dirty sluts

There is a huge difference between prejudice (pre-judging) and judging based upon a person's actions. The Republicans deserve most of the criticism levied against them by everyone. The Democrats deserve most of the criticism levied against them by true independents.

errc says

I wasn't posting for shock value, I'm honestly looking to be informed here.

Incredible. Really? Like you somehow DIDn'T know that three quarters of the state's in the US have a ban on same-sex marriages? That's the "meat and potatoes".

Hopefully you are now informed.

Same sex marriage is not a right. Its a privilige that gays are not privy to.

Let's not mince words here

edvard2 says

I take then that you too are in support of the Constitution as well?

Most internet commenters on the Constitution are like this guy:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-c,2849/

In reality, if they were real constitutional experts, they wouldn't ever claim that the entirety of the gigantic parade of horrors they typically talk about is strictly the president's fault. The president has defined constitutional powers that don't allow control over many of those alleged horrors.

errc says

Same sex marriage is not a right. Its a privilige that gays are not privy to.

Ah-ha! And see, that is where you are wrong. Section 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act was declared unconstitutional in 2013, and hence that means that the act of banning same sex marriage is in effect- unconstitutional. So you are wrong. It is in fact a right, and the US supreme court made it as such. corntrollio says

Most internet commenters on the Constitution are like this guy:

Luckily I am not "Like that guy" see the above comments. Thanks.

errc says

Same sex marriage is not a right. Its a privilige that gays are not privy to.

Actually, it is right, no different from interracial marriages, as protected by the 14th Amendment and upheld by the Supreme Court Case of Loving v. Virginia. The arguments made against same-sex marriages are identical to those made against interracial marriages, and the Supreme Court's responses apply equally to both.

I have nothing against gays. I have nothing against gays marrying

I just happen to agree with the premise of the thread, that it is quite the odd issue to prioritize.

Marijuana smokers are jailed by the millions. Obama could easily push to do the right thing and reschedule marijuana, where it ought to be. Non addictive, has medical benefits,,,,,and put an end to the madness. But somehow, that's on the back burner to gay marriage??? SERIOUSLY??

errc says

I have nothing against gays. I have nothing against gays marrying

I just happen to agree with the premise of the thread, that it is quite the odd issue to prioritize.

Marijuana smokers are jailed by the millions. Obama could easily push to do the right thing and reschedule marijuana, where it ought to be. Non addictive, has medical benefits,,,,,and put an end to the madness. But somehow, that's on the back burner to gay marriage??? SERIOUSLY??

The premise of this thread is nonsense to start with. Bringing up an unrelated issue isn't a valid point either. Want to bring up issues that deserve attention? How many days do you want to spend listing them all out? The comments about gay rights were addressed because it is in fact a serious issue, and it also happened to be one of the particular issues addressed in the post.

errc says

I just happen to agree with the premise of the thread, that it is quite the odd issue to prioritize.

And what exactly does "prioritize" mean? Don't even discuss marriage equality until weed is legal?

The way our nation works is that many issues are discussed and advanced simultaneously. It would be impossible for any nation to operate one issue at a time.

In any case, gay human rights is an urgent issue because every day those rights are violated real people are harmed considerably. One wouldn't say, stop police from investigating rape cases until all murder cases are solved. One would say, abolish all anti-rape laws until we've stopped all murders from happening. So, what exactly does prioritizing mean?

errc says

I just happen to agree with the premise of the thread, that it is quite the odd issue to prioritize.

In that case, you agree that it's good thing that it is not the priority that FW suggests, just because our media (which is controlled by 5 corporations) and the blogosphere ran stories about Putins bizarre comments.

edvard2 says

Luckily I am not "Like that guy" see the above comments. Thanks.

I've read numerous of your comments, edvard2, and appreciate them. You were not the target of that comment.

Dan8267 says

And what exactly does "prioritize" mean? Don't even discuss marriage equality until weed is legal?
The way our nation works is that many issues are discussed and advanced simultaneously. It would be impossible for any nation to operate one issue at a time.

Exactly. The crux of this thread is basically "people I don't like (and that I label inaccurately) talk about things I don't care about." Great. This is why ideological statements are basically non-sense, and we should focus on ideas and arguments instead. Ideology doesn't tell us what good policy is.

corntrollio says

I've read numerous of your comments, edvard2, and appreciate them. You were not the target of that comment.

Sorry for the misinterpretation.

Prioritize means to weight by importance.

Expending enrgy worrying about replacing the burned out light bulb in your shed, while leaving the gaping hole in your roof go, with storms on the horizon.

Gay people don't go to prison in this country, for being gay

Marijuana prohibition leads to hundreds of deaths every day, millions in prison, countries south of our border in terror and chaos, not to mention an undermining of our entire legal framework by allowing such insanity to continue. And there's some very simple solutions available, that not only don't cost anything, but would greatly benefit the economy.

Its a no brainer

lostand confused says

97% of alimony goes from men to women. 80% of custody of children goes to women and people are forced to pay-undert threat of jail-upto 50k a month in child support-with absolutely no say in how the children are raised and how the money is spent.

People who ask for custody do not have to pay child support. Instead, they could step up and be men, instead of bitching about money being used to support their children.

What percentage of child support orders are 50K/month? Bet you don't know.

errc says

Prioritize means to weight by importance.

You lost the argument.

edvard2 says

errc says

Prioritize means to weight by importance.

You lost the argument.

Agree -- this whole thread is the problem in that case. Instead of making a coherent argument about an important issue, it rails incoherently against an unimportant one.

corntrollio says

this whole thread is the problem in that case.

Exactly and I am ashamed of myself for giving it the attention it didn't deserve.

edvard2 says

errc says

Prioritize means to weight by importance.

You lost the argument.

Lol

edvard2 says

Luckily I am not "Like that guy" see the above comments. Thanks.

I still remember you claiming that constitution had a "right to happiness" in it. So you really are that guy, along with sbh who has "foundational ideas".

Yes, the founding framers had ideals, and this Republic was rooted in those ideals.

edvard2 says

errc says

I have nothing against gays. I have nothing against gays marrying

I just happen to agree with the premise of the thread, that it is quite the odd issue to prioritize.

Marijuana smokers are jailed by the millions. Obama could easily push to do the right thing and reschedule marijuana, where it ought to be. Non addictive, has medical benefits,,,,,and put an end to the madness. But somehow, that's on the back burner to gay marriage??? SERIOUSLY??

The premise of this thread is nonsense to start with. Bringing up an unrelated issue isn't a valid point either. Want to bring up issues that deserve attention? How many days do you want to spend listing them all out? The comments about gay rights were addressed because it is in fact a serious issue, and it also happened to be one of the particular issues addressed in the post.

You go to great lengths to avoid being critical of your own party,,,and your beliefs for that matter. It is ok to admit wrong doing, learn from your mistakes, and moved forward

FortWayne says

I still remember you claiming that constitution had a "right to happiness" in it. So you really are that guy, along with sbh who has "foundational ideas".

What exactly is your problem with "foundational ideas" as a way to describe the constitution? Perhaps you would prefer "the ideas that were the foundation of America"? Seriously -- I've read enough of your posts here to know that you should not be criticizing others' writing skills.

errc says

You go to great lengths to avoid being critical of your own party,,,and your beliefs for that matter. It is ok to admit wrong doing, learn from your mistakes, and moved forward

That would be a great start for a more fruitful discussion beyond the effectively one-and-the-same party line.

FortWayne says

Another great deal of you communist lefties

Oh for heaven's sake, stop being so party obssesed. Think outside of your liberal and conservative media diet. Divided we fall.

hrhjuliet says

Oh for heaven's sake, stop being so party obssesed. Think outside of your liberal and conservative media diet. Divided we fall.

Liberals can't take criticism of their silly priorities that's all. You point out that their priorities rival to that of a 15 year old, and they get really offended. And they get offended, because they are being called out on their childishness.

Out of all ills in our society, of all the problems and real problems, liberal priorities these days are fictitious war on women, gay marriage, and stray dogs... I can't even comprehend why they prioritize like children.

Maybe so, but I don't see proclaimed conservatives acting with any more maturity than proclaimed liberals. Not being a fan of either team, let me say that I truly believe that both parties are distracted by issues that can be argued into nihilism, and as relevant as they all are, I believe that all our freedoms and the issues you all fight about are threatened by the insidious power of the Fed.Reserve\Corporate\Bank empire within our Republic. I honestly believe that our internal fighting with each other is meant to depress and wear us out so we can not fight the real power. I also do not believe in the myth of a liberal media or a conservative media. Fox, NBC, you name it, they are all empire media. Millions have been pumped into finding out what will make conservatives feel that FOX is objective and honest, and millions have been pumped into the psychology of what will make proclaimed liberals feel trust for NBC. Divided we fall.

errc says

Gay people don't go to prison in this country, for being gay

Gays are still beaten, killed, and driven to suicide in this country.

errc says

Marijuana prohibition leads to hundreds of deaths every day, millions in prison,

And how exactly will ceasing to support gay civil and human rights advance the legalization or decriminalization of marijuana or in any way help those wrongly imprisoned for marijuana related offenses?

If anything, supporting liberal values including equality for gays would help all causes of liberty including marijuana users. Changing the culture to one of freedom and liberty to all is an important aspect of any fight for justice.

FortWayne says

I still remember you claiming that constitution had a "right to happiness" in it.

Are you sure they didn't mean the right to pursue happiness and the Declaration of Independence? In any case, please quote the specific post.

errc says

I just happen to agree with the premise of the thread, that it is quite the odd issue to prioritize.

The premise of the thread is false to begin with. Errc, usually you're smarter than this, you see through distractions better. I wonder if you're simply having a bad day. As I pointed out in the link, the OP has a problem with black people being on TV, so he calls the media "Liberal" because some TV shows are integrated. His complaints about that don't get him anywhere, but somehow he is able to fool some people by scapegoating the gays, instead.

In America, the equal protection of the laws is a fundamental right, not a privilege. That is a founding principle from the Declaration of Independence and codified expressly in the 14th Amendment, which was written by the generation that survived the Civil War. If you read the original pledge of allegiance, enacted while that generation yet lived, note what they emphasized: "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." (The religious bit was added during the McCarthy era.) They had survived the most lethal war in American history, and they wanted to spare us the pain of repeating it.

Forthood wants it back, and hides behind a picture of Ronald Reagan, who didn't even agree with his views anyway. The Reagans had friends who were gay, including a lesbian couple who were invited to house-sit and baby-sit the kids, and a gay male couple who were invited to stay in the Lincoln bedroom at the White House.

The recent progress towards equality in the area of same-sex marriage has resulted mostly from courts applying the 14th amendment. It isn't a matter of priorities in the sense of 'let's make progress on one issue at the expense of other issues.' If you want to understand how progress occurs, look at the mechanisms. "Don't Ask Don't Tell" was repealed only after courts declared it unconstitutional and ordered the military to stop enforcing it; then, mirabile dictu, Congress authorized the President to end it, and he did. The President deserves credit for doing the right thing in that area, even while we hope he will also do the right thing in more areas.

There are strong legal arguments to be made on the subject of drug legalization, but they aren't gaining traction, and the reason for that has to do with the tsunami of financial power going the opposite way: if you accept the premise that government has the power to tell you what drugs to ingest and what drugs not to ingest, and what you must do for your own health, then you can mandate 1/3 of GDP to the medical industrial complex, the prison industrial complex, and the military industrial complex. That's what you're up against, and I can understand your frustration, but I can't understand how you would allow Forthood to subvert it into resentment of gay couples getting married or calling that a "privilege" when everyone else has a fundamental right to marriage.

Dan8267 says

Are you sure they didn't mean the right to pursue happiness and the Declaration of Independence? In any case, please quote the specific post.

All right here:
http://patrick.net/?p=1235804&c=1040660#comment-1040660

edvard2 says

The constitution specifically states that all citizens are guaranteed the right to happiness and that we are all created equal.

I have a challenge for the Pat.net political voices. What do the conservatives and liberals agree on? Where are you two the same? Please don't digress into childish answers like, "we don't have anything in common, I hate them and I won't play with those commi-bastards, Nazi-conservative, fill in the blank with an insult here:________" answer. Mature answers please, I am honestly curious and home with a nasty cold and terrible poison oak, so take pity, and entertain, educate and enlighten my pitiful self.