patrick.net

thunderlips11 says

Bigsby says

And you haven't responded to my other point. Do you think these cops are worse terrorists than ISIS? Or would you just like to admit that you were being overly frothy with your language?

If a massacre is going on, what difference does it make if something is worse that Hitler, or not quite as bad as Stalin?

Especially when it's at home, and not in the asscrack of the world.

It's not a massacre. And it still doesn't make them the worst terrorists. Language does matter.

Bigsby says

They didn't constitute the majority at the onset of the uprising. The fact is that they hijacked the uprising because they saw an opportunity. And the US don't support ISIS. Why do you think they so rapidly stepped away from any direct military involvement after being so gung-ho at the beginning?

Yep, they were held in abject fear by the backhand of Assad's Army. The US pushed some covert ops down there, created some anarchy, and they took the chance to liberate themselves from the Satanic Heretical Alawites and their Kaffir Christian and Shi'a and Druze allies. Allah Ahkbar!

This is blowback, anyway you look at it.

As for ISIS in Iraq, Muslim Fundamentalism weren't a fly on Gaddafyi's, Saddams, or Assad's ass before the US started destablizing their regimes. Now they are a major problem. Have you seen what's cooking in Libya lately, where the US succeeded in using Wahabi nuts to set up Neoliberal Oligarchs? The Wahabi Nuts are turning on the Oligarchs, after all neoliberals oligarchs aren't known for fighting themselves and don't inspire anyone to an uprising with promises of more free trade 30 fabric softener brands.

Bigsby says

Dan8267 says

Bigsby says

Dan8267 says

This guy is a hero.

Seriously?

Damn straight. Just because you don't value the rights of others, does not make them unimportant. He is literally doing more for freedom than George Washington ever did.

And how do you know what I do or don't value? I took it as some bloke wanting to get a name for himself by posting up videos to Youtube. A bit of ego massage if you like. I don't see how sitting in a car, filming the police and just following your rights makes you a hero. Debasement of language seems to be all the rage these days.

Dan, Just how are the cops supposed to do their job when you support criminal behavior? That cop is trying to keep drunks off the road, to protect me and my kids. You are supporting drunks when they get away with it.
Aren't you the real criminal here?

Bigsby says

It's not a massacre. And it still doesn't make them the worst terrorists. Language does matter.

Language does matter - I believe it was you who were trying to distract from Missouri to ISIS with:

Bigsby says

And you haven't responded to my other point. Do you think these cops are worse terrorists than ISIS? Or would you just like to admit that you were being overly frothy with your language?

Obviously the populace is terrorized, or they wouldn't be flipping out.

They should write a letter that will be ignored, or march around a bit until the news cycle changes. That will bring necessary oversight and reform.

Dan8267 says

This is an act of terrorism and a threat to viciously torture and kill someone with an animal. Imagine if a group of protesters came forward with guns strapped to their hips and 10 attack dogs viciously barking at that cop and his dog. That would be taken as a death threat.

And if the dog is a cop, it's also a criminal for communicating I'm going to tear your throat apart and bath in your blood.

The use of animals to maul people is barbaric and should never be tolerated in any civilized country.

That cop is trying to keeping law and order. I see nothing wrong here.

thunderlips11 says

Yep, they were held in abject fear by the backhand of Assad's Army. The US pushed some covert ops down there, created some anarchy, and they took the chance to liberate themselves from the Satanic Heretical Alawites and their Kaffir Christian and Shi'a and Druze allies. Allah Ahkbar!

Perhaps you should read up a little more on the history of Syria under Assad's rule (and his father).

thunderlips11 says

As for ISIS in Iraq, Muslim Fundamentalism weren't a fly on Gaddafyi's, Saddams, or Assad's ass before the US started destablizing their regimes. Now they are a major problem.

The US has facilitated what has happened by causing/allowing that country to descend into sectarian chaos, but those tensions always existed with or without the interference of the US. They were simply kept in check through industrial scale oppression and murder.

thunderlips11 says

Obviously the populace is terrorized, or they wouldn't be flipping out.

They should write a letter that will be ignored, or march around a bit until the news cycle changes. That will bring necessary oversight and reform.

The populace is poor, they have no hope beyond winning the lottery. So they are looking for someone to blame.

thunderlips11 says

Bigsby says

It's not a massacre. And it still doesn't make them the worst terrorists. Language does matter.

Language does matter - I believe it was you who were trying to distract from Missouri to ISIS with:

I wasn't trying to distract from anything. You/Dan/anyone else are perfectly free to discuss what happened there, but Dan also should refrain from calling US cops the worst terrorists in the world. It does his argument no favours.

Bigsby says

Perhaps you should read up a little more on the history of Syria under Assad's rule.

Yep, he's a dictatorial cunt who uses violence. If he didn't, the place would be overrun with Sunni Freaks.

Bigsby says

The US has facilitated what has happened by causing/allowing that country to descend into sectarian chaos, but those tensions always existed with or without the interference of the US. They were simply kept in check through industrial scale oppression and murder.

Yes, the US sure did.

And there's industrial scale, or really, widespread Homebrew Massacres a la Somalia or the Sudan, going on now. It wasn't Assad that used Chemical Weapons on the populace (and, notice who leaped to the microphone saying they had strong evidence it was Assad's Army after it happened).

Strategist says

The populace is poor, they have no hope beyond winning the lottery. So they are looking for someone to blame.

Of course, the fact that an unarmed man was shot to death has nothing to do with it.

When are the factories coming back?

Bigsby says

I wasn't trying to distract from anything. You/Dan/anyone else are perfectly free to discuss what happened there, but Dan also should refrain from calling US cops the worst terrorists in the world. It does his argument no favours.

I see where you came from with that argument. A counter-argument would be: ISIS is in the asspit of the world over there, and trigger happy cops are here.

I think we have around 300 wrongful cop shootings per year, which is like a Boston Bombing twice a week.

thunderlips11 says

Bigsby says

Perhaps you should read up a little more on the history of Syria under Assad's rule.

Yep, he's a dictatorial cunt who uses violence. If he didn't, the place would be overrun with Sunni Freaks.

Who do you think has contributed to the radicalisation of so many Sunnis?

thunderlips11 says

It wasn't Assad that used Chemical Weapons on the populace (and, notice who leaped to the microphone saying they had strong evidence it was Assad's Army after it happened).

I didn't say it was, and I'm not clear on the purpose of that comment.

thunderlips11 says

I see where you came from with that argument. A counter-argument would be: ISIS is in the asspit of the world over there, and trigger happy cops are here.

That's not a counter-argument to cops being the worst terrorists in the world. It is an argument that it has a more immediate impact upon those living in the US (though in the long run the permanent creation of an Islamic caliphate could pose a more substantial threat to the safety of US citizens).

thunderlips11 says

I think we have around 300 wrongful cop shootings per year, which is like a Boston Bombing twice a week.

Not every one of them involves a white cop and a black kid/man.
We also have 300 million people. We have 40,000 road fatalities every year.
There will always be these kind of shootings. Humans will make mistakes in a life threatening situation. It just does not make it racist or murder.
The best we can do is reduce these tragic situations as much as possible. Blaming the cops every time and claiming racism every time is not productive and not the solution.

Bigsby says

That's not a counter-argument to cops being the worst terrorists in the world. It is an argument that it has a more immediate impact upon those living in the US (though in the long run the permanent creation of an Islamic caliphate could pose a more substantial threat to the safety of US citizens).

Imagine ISIS in control of the Middle East. Now imagine hell for us.

Strategist says

Imagine ISIS in control of the Middle East. Now imagine hell for us.

Imagine the hell for the people living in the Middle East.

Bigsby says

Who do you think has contributed to the radicalisation of so many Sunnis?

Why are Sunnis so radicalized in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, and the Sudan?

Bigsby says

I didn't say it was, and I'm not clear on the purpose of that comment.

To illustrate how much the US wanted to blame Assad.

Speaking of an absolute government using violence, how'd our friends in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan treat the Palestinians... or those Democratic Emirs of Bahrain treat their Democracy Protesters?

Bigsby says

It is an argument that it has a more immediate impact upon those living in the US (though in the long run the permanent creation of an Islamic caliphate could pose a more substantial threat to the safety of US citizens).

A Caliphate would still be unable to make it's own tanks, much less jet fighters or even guns. No population, no know-how, and attempts at a unification would be a howl to watch. Germany was one of the top 5 Industrial Powers; Russia had a massive population. The Levant has neither the population nor the industry to be a threat.

We have enough problems at home, and plenty of Weapons with which to nuke the Levant.

thunderlips11 says

Bigsby says

It is an argument that it has a more immediate impact upon those living in the US (though in the long run the permanent creation of an Islamic caliphate could pose a more substantial threat to the safety of US citizens).

A Caliphate would still be unable to make it's own tanks, much less jet fighters or even guns. No population, no know-how, and attempts at a unification would be a howl to watch. Germany was one of the top 5 Industrial Powers; Russia had a massive population. The Levant has neither the population nor the industry to be a threat.

They don't need the ability to make advanced weapons to be a serious threat. They can always buy and steal weapons. What capability did Al Qaeda have? They still managed a 911. ISIS is even worse then them. Look at the destruction they have already created?
Imagine if they manage to get a nuke or even a hundred shoulder fired missiles into the US.

thunderlips11 says

Why are Sunnis so radicalized in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, and the Sudan?

Some Sunnis are radicalised. There is an enormous difference between that and what you are saying.

thunderlips11 says

To illustrate how much the US wanted to blame Assad.

Of course they wanted to blame Assad. What exactly do you think the history of the region is?
thunderlips11 says

Speaking of an absolute government using violence, how'd our friends in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan treat the Palestinians... or those Democratic Emirs of Bahrain treat their Democracy Protesters?

Poorly.

thunderlips11 says

A Caliphate would still be unable to make it's own tanks, much less jet fighters or even guns. No population, no know-how, and attempts at a unification would be a howl to watch. Germany was one of the top 5 Industrial Powers; Russia had a massive population. The Levant has neither the population nor the industry to be a threat.

You would have a group imposing radicalisation on a whole region, generating enormous wealth from which they would be able to buy the weapons they can't produce. And they don't need modern weapons to cause problems in the US as you well know. They need organisation, funding and volunteers, of which there would be substantially more.

thunderlips11 says

We have enough problems at home, and plenty of Weapons with which to nuke the Levant.

Good grief.

Bigsby says

Some Sunnis are radicalised. There is an enormous difference between that and what you are saying.

Who funds ISIS, the Chechen Rebels, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Muslim Militants in India and Paki Terror Teams?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Chain
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/09/us-iraq-saudi-qatar-idUSBREA2806S20140309
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/13/world/middleeast/private-donors-funds-add-wild-card-to-war-in-syria.html?_r=0

And of course, $60M in State Department Aid goes a long way...
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/02/us_to_aid_syrian_gro.php

Bigsby says

You would have a group imposing radicalisation on a whole region, generating enormous wealth from which they would be able to buy the weapons they can't produce. And they don't need modern weapons to cause problems in the US as you well know. They need organisation, funding and volunteers, of which there would be substantially more.

Several of the 9/11 hijackers encountered routine traffic stops, yet, unlike if the same thing happened anywhere in industrialized Europe or Asia where police check immigration status, not deported. Most (all?) of the hijackers were visa overstayers. Instead, we jail dangerous Icelandic Students and Tourists for staying a few days too long. Hard to hijack a plane in Boston when you're back in Morocco/Egypt/Saudi Arabia.

Also, Islamic Fundamentalism is linked to US Meddling. No Shah and no Mossadegh overthrow, it's highly unlikely Khomeni would have taken power. The Egyptian populace is well aware of where the tanks and guns used to impose military dictatorships come from, and who pays for their oppression, as are the Pakistanis.

As for taking over the Levant, the Iranians, Turks, Kurds, Israel, Arab Shi'a and definitely Hezbollah would keep them VERY busy even if they could occupy both Syria and Iraq.

Bigsby says

thunderlips11 says

We have enough problems at home, and plenty of Weapons with which to nuke the Levant.

Good grief.

That's an exaggeration, of course. But if the Levant ever did try to build Skunkworks and Tank Factories, they're only a cruise missile away. If we even have to bother, assuming the Russians, Iranians, Turks, etc. don't do it first.

We can't afford Team America: World Police anymore. Most of the violence in the middle east is the blowback of our own buttinsky ways. Who ever heard of ISIS in 2002?

Again, not a speck on Assad's or Saddam's ass - until we destabilized the region with our occupation.

thunderlips11 says

Also, Islamic Fundamentalism is linked to US Meddling. No Shah and no Mossadegh overthrow, it's highly unlikely Khomeni would have taken power. The Egyptian populace is well aware of where the tanks and guns used to impose military dictatorships come from, and who pays for their oppression, as are the Pakistanis.

And I already made the same point.

thunderlips11 says

Who funds ISIS, the Chechen Rebels, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Muslim Militants in India and Paki Terror Teams?

I know very well who funds these groups - and in the case of ISIS, I understand they have largely become self-funded with their recent advances.

thunderlips11 says

Several of the 9/11 hijackers encountered routine traffic stops, yet, unlike if the same thing happened anywhere in industrialized Europe or Asia where police check immigration status, not deported. Most (all?) of the hijackers were visa overstayers. Instead, we jail dangerous Icelandic Students and Tourists for staying a few days too long. Hard to hijack a plane in Boston when you're back in Morocco/Egypt/Saudi Arabia.

Once in any country, it's pretty difficult to track people down if they're trying to avoid the authorities, so I'm not sure what your point is.

thunderlips11 says

As for taking over the Levant, the Iranians, Turks, Kurds, Israel, Arab Shi'a and definitely Hezbollah would keep them VERY busy even if they could occupy both Syria and Iraq.

If they actually did manage to control Iraq and Syria, I suspect your flippancy about the consequences would be misplaced.

Bigsby says

I know very well who funds these groups - and in the case of ISIS, I understand they have largely become self-funded with their recent advances.

When does the bombing of Saudi Arabia begin, then? The sanctions for oppressing women, for jailing lawyers for 15 years over blogging about legal reforms?

I remember during the Occupation, the Pentagon hemmed and hawed about Foreign Fighters, then it finally came out that large numbers of them were Saudi and other Gulf and Arab "Allies".

Bigsby says

Once in any country, it's pretty difficult to track people down if they're trying to avoid the authorities, so I'm not sure what your point is.

They were stopped, and if I remember right, on I-95. If this was pretty much every European country, the cop would say "Passport and Visa, please".
"Oh, this expired last year. We're going to Immigration, Gentlemen."

Bigsby says

If they actually did manage to control Iraq and Syria, I suspect your flippancy about the consequences would be misplaced.

Won't happen. The Kurds, Shi'a, and Iran won't allow it.

Meanwhile, John Kerry is delivering attack helicopters to General Sisi. The Egyptian street is well aware where the copters come from and who pays and how they are paid for.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/22/john-kerry-egypt-visit-sisi

thunderlips11 says

We can't afford Team America: World Police anymore. Most of the violence in the middle east is the blowback of our own buttinsky ways. Who ever heard of ISIS in 2002?

Again, not a speck on Assad's or Saddam's ass - until we destabilized the region with our occupation.

The past is the past. The issue is what is to be done now with the very real threat of ISIS.

thunderlips11 says

Won't happen. The Kurds, Shi'a, and Iran won't allow it.

They don't have to literally control all of it, do they? Some oil fields and major cities can supply a substantial amount of funds.
thunderlips11 says

When does the bombing of Saudi Arabia begin, then? The sanctions for oppressing women, for jailing lawyers for 15 years over blogging about legal reforms?

Yes, because the two situations are obviously the same...

thunderlips11 says

They were stopped, and if I remember right, on I-95. If this was pretty much every European country, the cop would say "Passport and Visa, please".

"Oh, this expired last year. We're going to Immigration, Gentlemen."

You have a lot of experience living in Europe, do you? If someone was stopped for speeding in Europe and produced a driving licence, then they wouldn't be asked for their 'passport and visa.'

Dude, all kidding aside, you have issues you need to deal with.

Dan8267 says

The worst criminals and terrorists are cops

when he gets on a leaky boat in the dead of winter in the middle of the freezing night with minimal clothing and crosses the frigid delaware river, then, and only then can you compare him to washington.

Dan8267 says

Bigsby says

Dan8267 says

This guy is a hero.

Seriously?

Damn straight. Just because you don't value the rights of others, does not make them unimportant. He is literally doing more for freedom than George Washington ever did.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Strategist says

That cop is trying to keeping law and order. I see nothing wrong here.

What a pussy pension squatter.

A real cop would have thrown gravy all over the mob and set the dogs on them.

SNACK TIME, FLUFFY!

What would our friend Kim Jong-un have done in this situation?

But it is the private citizens that have hired the police to treat them as slaves under the laws the private citizens constructed themselves.
When you set up a situation where you are to be policed, and then go out and hire the people to do the policing, at minimum it would be expected that you would tolerate the situation you set up.

Dan8267 says

We should not tolerate the police treating the private citizens as slaves.

what threat did he avoid? What safety did he risk? A titty slapping from the commanding officer? OMG, sure glad he got out of there without boning up!

Dan8267 says

So yes, this guy is a hero who risked his safety to stand up for liberty.

SoftShell says

what threat did he avoid? What safety did he risk? A titty slapping from the commanding officer? OMG, sure glad he got out of there without boning up!

Dan8267 says

So yes, this guy is a hero who risked his safety to stand up for liberty.

Dan does not know the true meaning of liberty.

Only because obama forgot to collect our two trillion barrel severance upon leaving iraq...
thunderlips11 says

We can't afford Team America:

Bigsby says

The past is the past. The issue is what is to be done now with the very real threat of ISIS.

Stab the heart of the beast. Stop playing whackamole. Stop cutting off the hydra's heads.

But I'm sure you know as well as I do that it will never happen. Who will pay for the Presidential Library, the University Chairs, Political Campaign Contributions, etc?

Until the USG gets goes about stopping terror at the source, the Gulf States, I know it isn't serious.

That's the problem with empires, they have conflicting interests. They need the Wahabis to help win against Gaddafyi in Libya, to be funded via Saudi Arabia, to overthrow Syria, but not to overtake Iraq, or get TOO powerful in Libya (or Syria if they win) so they overthrow the Neoliberal Oligarchs.

Bigsby says

They don't have to literally control all of it, do they? Some oil fields and major cities can supply a substantial amount of funds.

The Kurds have had a tough time of extracting it, AND a tough time of exporting it. Those fields are damaged and ancient; the infrastructure is also in lousy shape.

The oil rich areas of Iraq (and much of the densely populated areas) are also where all of ISIS' strongest and most hated enemies are, the Shi'a and Kurdish regions. The Shi'a alone are ~65% of the population. Toss in the Kurds and other minorities, it's 75%.

Wahabis hate Shi'a more than they hate "Crusaders" or "Zionists". The hate is at 1600s Germany levels.

Hezbollah has already been fighting with ISIS along the Lebanese-Syrian border. Hezbollah "advisors" are in Northern Iraq.
http://www.juancole.com/2014/06/radicals-showdown-hizbullah.html
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/4/5968181/lebanon-isis-town-arsal
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/01/hezbollah-s-widening-war-spreads-to-iraq.html

Bigsby says

Yes, because the two situations are obviously the same...

We sanction countries over a lot less than executing Sorcerers and Adulterers. Saudi Arabia is the wellspring. Unless you dam it up, it's whackamole over the entire Muslim World - even Nigeria and Kenya.

Bigsby says

You have a lot of experience living in Europe, do you? If someone was stopped for speeding in Europe and produced a driving licence, then they wouldn't be asked for their 'passport and visa.'

That depends. If they were obvious foreigners - like the 9/11 hijackers - they would probably be. If they were Euro or American tourists, probably not. Cops can't check for immigration, and we don't have random ICE/DHS checks (and shouldn't). Let cops check immigration status.

As for the EU states, they have been turning against immigration generally, and now there's even blowback against Tomas/Stoyan the friendly Polish/Bulgarian Plumber and EU "internal migration"

This is something a couple hundred titty bars situated on the gulf of aden would solve rather quickly....
thunderlips11 says

Until the USG gets goes about stopping terror at the source, the Gulf States, I know it isn't serious.

thunderlips11 says

Until the USG gets goes about stopping terror at the source, the Gulf States, I know it isn't serious.

As ISIS has basically become self-funded, then that becomes far less important (and it's obviously not just the Gulf states doing the funding).

thunderlips11 says

The Kurds have had a tough time of extracting it, AND a tough time of exporting it. Those fields are damaged and ancient; the infrastructure is also in lousy shape.

The oil rich areas of Iraq (and much of the densely populated areas) are also where all of ISIS' strongest and most hated enemies are, the Shi'a and Kurdish regions. The Shi'a alone are ~65% of the population. Toss in the Kurds and other minorities, it's 75%.

Wahabis hate Shi'a more than they hate "Crusaders" or "Zionists". The hate is at 1600s Germany levels.

And your point? A group hell bent on regional dominance at any price is going to extract money any way they can. The more land they control, the more money they will gather. They don't have to control every city or every oil field to cause havoc both in the region and elsewhere.

thunderlips11 says

That depends. If they were obvious foreigners - like the 9/11 hijackers - they would probably be.

Obvious foreigners? When was the last time you were in England, France or Germany? What exactly is a citizen of one of those countries supposed to look like? Close to 3m muslims live in England. Add up every black, Asian, Arab or mixed citizen in England and that's 8m people.

Bigsby says

As ISIS has basically become self-funded, then that becomes far less important (and it's obviously not just the Gulf states doing the funding).

And next time, in the next place? India-Pakistan border? Chechnya Part 2? Egypt? Morocco? Nigeria?

Bigsby says

And your point? A group hell bent on regional dominance at any price is going to extract money any way they can. The more land they control, the more money they will gather. They don't have to control every city or every oil field to cause havoc both in the region and else where.

Good luck controlling the a place where 3/4 of the population is opposed to everything you stand for.

The pipelines and highways either go up through Turkey or down the Rivers to Basra.

North is Kurdish land, nice and hilly too, and the South is loaded with Shi'a.

If you think the US convoys got attacked a little bit, just wait until you see ISIS try to move some gas out of Iraq.

Bigsby says

Obvious foreigners? When was the last time you were in England, France or Germany? What exactly is a citizen of one of those countries supposed to look like? Close to 3m muslims live in England. Do you think they are all white?

Actually, a French Court only overturned the indefinite police custody of illegals ("Sans-papiers") about a year or so ago. 2012 was a record year for deportations in France, too.
http://www.thelocal.fr/20130122/france-expels-record-number-of-illegal-immigrants

20,000 Roma in 2013 alone.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/1/14/france-deports-recordnumberofroma.html

http://www.voanews.com/content/reu-libya-deports-hundreds-of-african-immigrants-state-news-agency/1798655.html
Italy is turning away illegals and deporting them whenever they are found.

Double digit percentages of Hispanics in the US doesn't stop the BP/DHS patrols, or their raids to help packers/plantation owners get rid of them after the busy/harvest season is over.

thunderlips11 says

Bigsby says

As ISIS has basically become self-funded, then that becomes far less important (and it's obviously not just the Gulf states doing the funding).

And next time, in the next place? India-Pakistan border? Chechnya Part 2? Egypt? Morocco? Nigeria?

Your point?

thunderlips11 says

Good luck controlling the a place where 3/4 of the population is opposed to everything you stand for.

The pipelines and highways either go up through Turkey or down the Rivers to Basra.

North is Kurdish land, nice and hilly too, and the South is loaded with Shi'a.

If you think the US convoys got attacked a little bit, just wait until you see ISIS try to move some gas out of Iraq.

They don't have to move anything out of anywhere to have the kind of funds that they've never had before. That's already the case to a certain extent after over running a substantial number of banks in the region. And if they looked to push back the Shia or the Kurds in the future, then who knows what might happen.

thunderlips11 says

Actually, a French Court only overturned the indefinite police custody of illegals ("Sans-papiers") about a year or so ago. 2012 was a record year for deportations in France, too.

So what? Everything you said there is an irrelevance for stopping someone with a valid driving licence for speeding. As I said, once you're in a country, it's not that difficult to disappear.

Bigsby says

Dan8267 says

This guy is a hero.

Seriously?

he does have balls

Bigsby says

Your point?

It's like going after recurring stomach ulcers with Antibiotics and Painkillers, over and over again, instead of getting surgery.

Bigsby says

So what? Everything you said there is an irrelevance for stopping someone with a valid driving licence for speeding. As I said, once you're in a country, it's not that difficult to disappear.

The French certainly deported 20,000 Roma (again). Operation Wetback worked in the 1930s.

When the government wants to, it can and will deport foreigners easily.

There is no irrelevance - most European police can check Visas and Passports at will, and can and do take people in to the immigration authorities.

American police cannot.

http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/diaspora/artikel.php?ID=249424

A country serious about fighting terror will monitor foreigners in the country.

thunderlips11 says

The French certainly deported 20,000 Roma (again). Operation Wetback worked in the 1930s.

When the government wants to, it can and will deport foreigners easily.

So what? All that is a complete irrelevance when talking about your point about a bloody traffic stop.

Bigsby says

So what? All that is a complete irrelevance when talking about your point about a bloody traffic stop.

Again, European cops can check Immigration or Visa status. American ones cannot.

Had the cop who pulled over the 9/11 hijackers, and asked for their papers, they would have been sent to the DHS and deported for visa overstay.

Totally Relevant. The fact that cargo containers are uninspected, that millions cross the border, that US cops can't check Immigration status, shows the US is utterly unserious about terrorism, it's just an excuse to meddle.

Like Humanitarianism.

Looks like the terror thing is pitter-pattering out, and we're swinging into Cold War 2: Containment Strategy Comes Back.

thunderlips11 says

Again, European cops can check Immigration or Visa status. American ones cannot.

Had the cop who pulled over the 9/11 hijackers, and asked for their papers, they would have been sent to the DHS and deported for visa overstay.

And once again, this was for speeding. They had a valid driving licence. Why would they ask for a passport and visa? They wouldn't in the US and they wouldn't in Europe.

thunderlips11 says

Totally Relevant. The fact that cargo containers are uninspected, that millions cross the border, that US cops can't check Immigration status, shows the US is utterly unserious about terrorism, it's just an excuse.

It doesn't show that at all. That is simply not an effective way of fighting terrorism.

Bigsby says

And once again, this was for speeding. They had a valid driving licence. Why would they ask for a passport and visa? They wouldn't in the US and they wouldn't in Europe.

And once again, that point is moot because the cop couldn't check if he wanted to. Perhaps from their accents or behavior he had reason to be suspicious, and decided to check their immigration status?