patrick.net

indigenous says

No George Foreman grills, none of the QVC stuff, no Ronko pocket fisherman,

I think this is a stretch. QVC? C'mon. Show me one person who doesn't have teased hair that buys anything on QVC. And Foreman didn't invent his Grill and besides that product was introduced 20 years ago.

thunderlips11 says

I think this is a stretch.

Au Contraire you are the grasping at straws...

thunderlips11 says

indigenous says

No more Horatio Algers?

Indignenous, Horatio Alger was a pedophile priest, who abandoned his pastorship just before he was to be held to account for "Despicable Acts" with Children.

All his stories were about some poor kid who gets graced out of poverty by being adopted by a generous man.

indigenous says

What about the the guys who started Google, Apple, Microsoft, Hewett Packard they started small.

You should read about Bill Gates. He wasn't an everyday kid from a middle class family. He was an attendee of a private school so wealthy he could lease time on a mainframe - something that didn't exist for 99.9% of kids in the 1960s.

There's only one way for an upstart, to become rich (at least the lower, starting rich) without those connections ... prop trading. Yes, the story of Jesse Livermore of the greater Boston area, was a regular Joe, who knew how to make trades, and later, a small fortune on Wall St.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Lauriston_Livermore

Unfortunately, he'd killed himself, due to family & other personal issues, I mean nobody's perfect, but the fact remains that he knew how to make money.

At my company, we also have a prop trader, who's clearly a rainmaker. I suspect that when this gig is over, he'll be retiring to the tune of $100M.

Rin says

There's only one way for an upstart, to become rich (at least the lower, starting rich) without those connections ... prop trading.

I'm sure you have read about this guy

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/72756316-michael-burry-profiled-bloomberg-risk-takers.html

Not everyone has his or your rainmaker's ability.

I will disagree that it is the only way to get rich, although a relative term.

Becoming a public servant seems to be a sure fire way to make millions.

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indigenous says

Rin says

There's only one way for an upstart, to become rich (at least the lower, starting rich) without those connections ... prop trading.

I'm sure you have read about this guy

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/72756316-michael-burry-profiled-bloomberg-risk-takers.html

Not everyone has his or your rainmaker's ability.

But that's just the point. If these guys went into ordinary IT, medical school, etc, the most they'd do is perhaps be in middle management or a surgeon. Thus, the Jobs and Gates of the world aren't like these prop traders. The fact that they can work the dealbook and with relative consistency, allows them to garner even more capital, to make a small fortune.

Rin says

There's only one way for an upstart, to become rich (at least the lower, starting rich) without those connections ... prop trading.

Yep. That is the best way to *aim* for a 7 or 8-figure yearly payout. Then again, most will fail, just like any other business.

Looking at our MD friends, even if they become "successful" they will still be miserable.

Rin says

But that's just the point. If these guys went into ordinary IT, medical school, etc, the most they'd do is perhaps be in middle management or a surgeon. Thus, the Jobs and Gates of the world aren't like these prop traders. The fact that they can work the dealbook and with relative consistency, allows them to garner even more capital, to make a small fortune.

Don't forget about the peter principal, anyway Jobs & Gates are entrepreneurs (unless you work for the government), that is my point.

As far as leveraging their position after they get connected, yup but you have to do the other first.

BTW is it possible for a retail investor to invest in the carry trade?

indigenous says

BTW is it possible for a retail investor to invest in the carry trade?

Possibly, your retail FX broker will pay you the yield difference. However, the rates may not be so good, and that can wreck your risk/reward.

If you trade FX futures, the "carry-trade" component has been mostly priced into the derivatives.

Anyone playing the volatility carry-trade? Like the near-consistent contango in the VIX futures?

NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE

Thanks,

I was reading on Zero Hedge that there the Yen is likely to drop.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-31/most-important-chart-investors-flashback-and-why-usdjpy-120-now-coming-fast

indigenous says

I was reading on Zero Hedge that there the Yen is likely to drop.

Against what currency though? USDJPY is hardly a carry trade.

If you do something like NZDJPY you need to be extremely careful.

Peter P says

If you do something like NZDJPY you need to be extremely careful.

That is what I was thinking.

I think retail investors get hammered with too many fees, to use the margin appropriately, to make a carry trade worth one's time.

Rin says

I think retail investors get hammered with too many fees, to use the margin appropriately, to make a carry trade worth one's time.

Worse yet, the retail forex bucket shops may even play games on you. Well, some are better than the others.

Thanks,

Any other avenues for the retail investors to benefit from the likely devaluation of the Yen?

indigenous says

Thanks,

Any other avenues for the retail investors to benefit from the likely devaluation of the Yen?

Well, there is the 6J futures, the FXY ETF, and spot forex.

However, do understand that you are *trading*, as opposed to expressing an opinion or belief. It is a brutal game.

Oh, there is a myriad of Yen ETFs and ETNs. Do your research carefully.

There are not a lot of viable retail options to directly trade pairs like NZDJPY other than spot forex.

Peter P says

However, do understand that you are *trading*, as opposed to expressing an opinion or belief. It is a brutal game.

There are 2 aspects one is the theory i.e. MMT, Ks, Austrians, the other is following the data. 2 different things.

And Thanks.

This was pointed out as many Austrians were predicting inflation because of the QEs. OTH Mish pointed out that is was not all that much as the total credit market was around 60 trillion which actually created deflation at the time as credit contracted in 2008

indigenous says

There are 2 aspects one is the theory i.e. MMT, Ks, Austrians, the other is following the data. 2 different things.

Regardless of theories, other things are far more important: entry, exit, position-sizing.

Peter P says

Regardless of theories, other things are far more important: entry, exit, position-sizing.

How long did it take you to learn options/derivative trading?

indigenous says

Peter P says

Regardless of theories, other things are far more important: entry, exit, position-sizing.

How long did it take you to learn options/derivative trading?

Time has little to do with it though. I have met people who are doing far better in less time.

I still have many personality flaws to work through.

Peter P says

I still have many personality flaws to work through.

The no emotion discipline?

indigenous says

Peter P says

I still have many personality flaws to work through.

The no emotion discipline?

More complicated than that.

Peter P says

Regardless of theories, other things are far more important: entry, exit, position-sizing.

I don't know and that is probably true. OTOH genuine theories(i.e. Not Keynesian or MMT) point out true value. I.E. Buffet seems to have done quite well with this concept.