patrick.net

Actually, it is surprising we haven’t heard of plans to send mentally ill people themselves offshore to be taken care of.

they did here. they deported a couple of people by mistake, one to germany, one to phillipines. put them in a detention centre for a while and abused them first... it can be hard to know what's going on when someone shows up speaking another language and even masquerading as someone else, altho they showed signs of illness...

http://www.safecom.org.au/cornelia-rau.htm

Wow, the story is now on Fool.com:

http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06092517.htm

hot and cold running maids...

Wow! I love the response! Who knew I could threadjack the same post with minature chickens and partying bath girls?

Not to mention slightly less exotic comments but still very interesting comments about:
mental illness
John Major as a poodle
alternative healthcare avenues
doors leading to nowhere
a 2000 sqft bathroom
feng shui implications for foyers
killing Boomers through grinding poverty
options jargon
stupid Gen-Yers
and a perennial favorite - economically illiterate realtors fudging their numbers.

With this diverse crowd, I don't think the post bubble times will ever get boring.

casey may be an interesting legal test case, in that he is blowing the whistle on a number of other parties, being brokers, lenders and even the RE gurus. he is now blaming himself exclusively in the current incarnation, but the practices of others won't go unconsidered, and any competent defence attorney would have to try to spread the blame to all other parties, even if casey is too naive and 'altruistic' to do it himself.

casey has fallen for the 'fraud by persuasion' antics of the RE gurus and the whole capitalistic, get-rich-quick-by-any-means mindset of his culture.

his continued writings show him to be naive and not comprehending the entire context of his situation. altho he says he is 'altruistic', an aware altruistic person wouldn't be trying to get rich quick the way he has -- there's too much self-interest in what he has done, which is what the RE gurus all put forward: 1) quit your job, and never work again or answer to The Man, except for flipping and rehabbing a bit; and 2) make 4x what you would have made in a day job doing so... altho they're usually all ex-salesmen and fairground spruikers (sometimes literally) and all their money is made selling seminars full-time to fairly dumb people who all want to hear messages 1) and 2), and well they know it...

DS,

The everybody else is doing it defense didn't cut it for Martha Stewart, teenage girlfriends of drug dealers and speeding tickets. Even ignorance of the law is not a legal defense as long as Casey knowingly lied on the application. He doesn't have to know it violated federal law and could get him into trouble, though I'm sure that is also spelt out in fine print on the bottom of the form.

The kid is done. His attorney should focus on trading Serin's quietness for the lender's loan forgiveness, and then Serin needs to work out a deal with the IRS on paying back taxes. And pray that the federal prosecutors do not take an interest in such a small fry (once the big fishes start toppling).

And pray that the federal prosecutors do not take an interest in such a small fry (once the big fishes start toppling).

His story is now on fool.com. It is getting big.

The everybody else is doing it defense didn’t cut it for Martha Stewart, teenage girlfriends of drug dealers and speeding tickets.

i've never said 'everybody is doing it' at all, from memory. the thought never crossed my mind that everyone was doing it. interestingly tho, for some reason GWB was never prosecuted by the SEC for insider trading when he dumped his arbusto shares... to be honest, i haven't read all the gory detail of casey's posts about exactly what he did, but i skimmed some parts where the mortgage brokers did the forms for him and made up an income figure. if there are only civil proceedings in this, do you think the banks will come after him (no money), or the mortgage brokers involved? further, banks have a way of liking to hush things up so as not to scare off the punters or precipitate a crisis of confidence... e.g. they are notoriously tight-lipped about how much they lose thru white collar embezzlement and robberies. they also seem to be able to shut down international keylogging rackets very quickly somehow, even when hosted on servers in russia. and bail out failing credit unions and banks.

the point is, there could be a huge media stink about how dishonest the lenders, brokers and gurus are, and no-one wants that... this kid is clearly utterly naive and clueless, judging from his loose cannon 'altruistic' admissions of everything to the world so far -- he's clearly not a player or a hustler, he shouldn't be in the 'get rich quick in property' game at all...

the more he writes, the more he's gonna piss these players off... he's digging himself a deeper hole all round, but i think it makes him feel better to air it all...

DS,

You didn't argue that specific point but Serin did, he kept saying that he didn't think what he did was really bad and talked about how he felt the entire RE industrial complex had a malodorous air to it. Thus, essentially, he was arguing that everyone else was doing it and what he did wasn't so bad.

Being a gullible fool is better than being a malicious criminal. The prosecution may go for relatively lesser crimes than evidence can support and the jury might only convict on the lesser charges, but overall, SErin appears to have hung himself out to dry by openly admitting that he knowingly lied on loan documents repeatedly.

Overall, contemporary criminal courts are less known for their philosophical depth than their crowded work load. Since Serin provided an open and shut case on his guilt, I don't think it'll be a long or difficult trial.

Also, Serin is hardly the first or the first hundred thousand scammed scammer. This sort of victim-victimizer situation comes up quite frequently. For a recent prominent example, read up on 419 scams. I don't believe, as you appear to believe, that any precedent would be set by State v. Serin.

I think this one would garner more attention than Casey's little mess.

http://tinyurl.com/jbvsm

I don’t believe, as you appear to believe, that any precedent would be set by State v. Serin.

put him on judge judy...

there may not be a state vs serin, depending on how it plays out... i think one of the RE agents told him 'everybody is doing it' actually. the thing is, they could all deny they knew anything about it if questioned, as their advice to him was only verbal -- therefore, he would be the patsy, as they could claim they simply submitted his claimed earnings, took his word that he was going to owner-occupy, etc. they could deny the conversations took place. and finally it's his signature on the forms. [gulp] looks grim...

but i don't know that an overtaxed judicial system skimps on the questions of law before it. corrupt judges, that's another story...

i don't see any new precedents of law being set, when i say 'test case' i mean it will be interesting to see where the blame is apportioned and whether other people are drawn into the net. does 'test case' imply new precedent or ground-shaking new common law? not really -- it requires a judgement to be made on a complex or novel issue or law. is this cut and dried? not really, there are mitigating circumstances at the very least, and outright irresponsibility on the part of the brokers -- meaning the first case where somebody overreached after doing some guru courses and has been prosecuted based on carrying out the advice.

note that the martinsville case (a huge abuse of trust, which shows how pernicious mortgage fraud can be) is currently facing only a civil suit. another very substantial case attracted criminal prosecution.

neil henman's site here has loads of examples of these types of cases also:
http://www.jenman.com.au/NewsArticles1.php?id=195

Hmmmm....looks suspiciously like Dr Girlfriend from The Venture Brothers.....

astrid,

Thanks for the NYT link. You're right it has already been on CNN this morning! How could anyone believe that properties in Indiana would appreciate in a wild fashion is beyond me! What's really shocking is that the FBI estimates mort. fraud at 429 bil. in 2004. Imagine what the total will be for the Double Live Gonzo year of 2005?

To our good friend Casey Serin. I kind of questioned his authenticity b/c I don't know how common a name "Serin" is, but it sounded suspiciously like "Sarin" as in Sarin Gas? Casey as in "Casey at the Bat"? Maybe Nick Danger would have been a little too obvious? Perhaps he chose iaminforeclosure b/c f*ckedborrower was already taken? I (like astrid) ponder as to why a person w/that kind of internet savvy wouldn't have done any homework at all. By the time of his purchases the bubble had already gone mainstream. Also note his home town. SAC! Bust Central.

Ran across this while blogging this morning and it's too good not to share:

All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner.

--Red Skelton

SFWoman,

I'll hollah! I mean what can it hurt? I'm on the phone all day everyday w/nutty people anyway? My guess is the call will be mechanically screened and he'll determine wether I'm a bill collector, with one of his numerous lenders or a reporter like Seth Jayson over w/Motley Fool!

By law I'm not allowed to record calls (although clients can record me) but if I can "work" the guy what kind of questions would you all want me to ask?

RC: Completely OT, but the "matching jumpsuit" comment reminded me of some fun times in med school... During my surgical rotation, we went to see patients at the county hospital. A large part of the practice was medical care for inmates. Imagine doing hernia exams on tattooed, buff, scary looking gangbangers. Now that'll grow hair on your chest!

Called Casey and got classical music until my party could be reached. It's his real number alright and affirms that his web-site is iamscuh-rude.com. Oh, and have a blessed day! Didn't leave a msg. If I were him I'd probably screen my calls too! What msg. should I/we leave?

Hi, this is DinOR from patrick.net and as you may now be aware we've been discussing mortgage fraud and flippers as two of the primary drivers in a bubble we feel could drag down the U.S economy. We're not out to make you a poster child (you kind of did that yourself) for flippers gone mad but we were wondering if you would be a guest blogger on SDCIA and tell other flippers to just throw in the towel? This will accelerate the crash and create a tipping point for the the ARM re-set. Let's "face reality" and admit there's NFW you're going to unload those POS so please just do your "deed in lieu" and drop this whole silly facade. We would really appreciate it! Hollah!

Here's a great comment from one of the drones trying to counter Robert Cote', Tsusiat, Ha Ha, and me on Casey's blog:

#
Matthew
September 27th, 2006 at 11:25 pm

Given your forthrightness people really should forgive your transgressions. They can’t come after us all!

I needn't deconstruct. If these are your allies, you know you have a problem.

DinOR,

Just invite him honestly and simply to be a guest blogger here. I wouldn't inject any judgement or hyperbole into it. He'll get plenty of that in the comments to his thread.

The added benefit is that will then stand as record we can serve up during the discovery phase.

By the way, I left a comment on his blog fairly and clearly warning him that he should listen to his lawyers, stop blogging, and disappear -- hoping that everyone forgets and he can just go through the process quietly.

So, he's been warned. In my opinion, from this point forward (actually from the point where he ignored his attorney's advice) he is begging for his own demise.

Bad, bad Australian Boomers

that's a really weird story. i was at bondi last week, and didn't particularly notice them, heh. i'm just dumbfounded, it's unthinkable, bondi is probably akin to venice beach or something... there are some areas in north bondi they might be able to get away with it... just a temporary problem like possums getting into the roof...

By the way, I left a comment on his blog fairly and clearly warning him that he should listen to his lawyers, stop blogging, and disappear

hmm, absolutely right -- i think wise counsel would be that he keep his head down and stops spilling his guts to the whole world... if he has no judgement, at least his attorney has... but "i just gotta be me!"

"inflation ex inflation"

Robert I'll have to agree. Analysts calling for 3.5-4.5% GDP back in July were making my eyes roll back in my head. I believe you're right, "GDP" has become more a measure of the velocity of money!

(I'm not sure though I could keep a straight face while inviting Casey to our blog). After all, hasn't he suffered enough? LOL! When saddled with a FICO that from that day forth simply be referred to as a "Casey FICO" and a 1099 that could choke a cow he'll know what suffering is!

Question:

There is a very high likelihood that nothing will happen to Mr. Casey aside from the normal financial distress stuff. Not that that isn't bad. But for a very young guy with few assets and really not that much to lose aside from a credit rating -- which he doesn't really grasp yet -- it's not really that much of a penance.

He probably won't get sued. He'll probably lie on his taxes, and no one will catch it. He'll probably not get investigated by a grand jury (Cote's wishes aside).

Of course, we could do a lot to change that. Vindictive? Petty? Righteous? Schadenfreude or just simple Grausamkeit?

Had Casey the sophistication to put one property in Happy Happy Good Time LLC and another in IBNXTSY Enterprises with different fed. tax ID numbers he might have been able to get away with it! Since he had to put his rugu seminars on plastic I doubt that happened.

Can't you just call up the OCC and bid on "non-performing paper". Surely someone there will catch it? Besides doesn't the lender issue a 1099 for "debt forgiven" as income? (That would be tough for anyone to work around).

Randy,

I thought that was a very generously worded and wise note. We'll see if that and Serin's attorney finally shake some sense into his head.

However, I agree with SQT. Serin has already done a lot of damage to himself. txchick57 over at Ben Jones's blog threatened send pdfs of Serin's blog to Serin's creditors. Serin may have already attracted too much heat to have an easy way out.

Now if I was a super-ambitious and altruistic DA, I'd wait one or two years and then forcibly turn Serin state's witness against his lenders. Elliot Spitzer made his name doing this kind of stuff. A publicity savvy DA or US Attorney can get a lot of mileages squeezing huge settlements and getting convictions from the mortgage banking industry.

M. Cote,

Hey, that bilingual stuff makes perfect sense! Public transportation in Oxnard is probably only used by Spanish speakers or people who wants bilingual signage!

(Oye, I'm never gonna get elected to public office)

DinOR,

I doubt Serin has that kind of sophistication. If he did he wouldn't be blogging his predicament in the first place.

M. Cote,

Sorry, I was joking. But really! Wow!

It's funny b/c obviously Casey doesn't even seem to appreciate the gravity of his situation. He's a pretty easy target but how different is what he did from countless other FB's that knew full well the appraisals they were getting on their 4th cash out re-fi in the last 2 1/2 years were nothing more than fluff and hot air?

He came SO LATE to the party to my knowledge he didn't even get a shot at doin' some cash out re-fi's and then go down the road (as we'll find in many, many cases). I'd heard over on Ben's that one poster said in an "affluent" area in FL that some (and I don't have a term for them yet, so) people that couldn't get the appraisal to do cash out re-fi's "sold" their home to their neighbors! And yes, vice versa! Evidently, through this underhanded ploy they were able to bilk the system for another 100/200K! So I guess they settled up for the difference down at the country club?

I'm hardly defending num-nuts but he's got plenty of company.

Hiding,

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. The DA will have no problem finding and turning big time mortgage brokers and shysters, they won't bother with Casey. More fun just to do an open and shut case and add another notch to their belt.

Serin might be trying to extort a favorable settlement out of his lenders/realtor/MBs. A "if I'm going down I'm taking you with me" and get them to take over his houses.

Agree with Astrid, and disagree with Cote'.

No DA will care one iota about Casey -- that is unless there is some pretty organized, sustained, and broad public pressure.

The DA won't win any points for going after him. In fact, the DA will lose points. Sir Cote' is forgetting about the average voter's psychology and injecting his own logic. That'll get you on the wrong end of the trade every time.

I would say that the only way to have even a small chance of getting something criminal going against Casey would be to organize interested people: probably Patrick's, Ben's, and the various derivatives. Then there would have to be someone reasonably high-profile to write a letter of support, preferably a lawmaker. Even with all that, the DA is a little busy with elections, HP, Energy Companies, and who eats what kind of allegedly tortured meat.

Maybe if 5,000 people all called the IRS tax cheat tip line with his info that would result in an audit. That would result in a settlement with his wages getting garnished for a few years. He won't go to jail over this type of thing if it's his first infraction.

A few days ago, someone on Ben's site actually posted the links on where/how to report mortgage fraud, contact the local DA, etc. I can't find the original, but here's a handy link in case anyone's interested:

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortgage_fraud/National_Resources.asp

Not saying anyone here would actually REPORT CASEY or anything (bad karma, right?), just an fyi... ;-)

And Serin isn't executing any honeytrap, strategic leverage ploy, or other devious plan. He's just an immature amateur flipper with an ego. If this was a sting or trap it would be more like some condoflip.com or something, where you can really set people up with the goods. All any investigators get from Casey's site is random comments from unverifiable sources.

Not saying anyone here would actually REPORT CASEY or anything (bad karma, right?), just an fyi…

I don't have any Karma, having long since sold it all forward on the futures market.

So I'll be more than willing to say it, if it's worth while.

Mike said:

"Well, I day trade and I do very nicely thank you. I never used to do “very nicely thank you” until one day (years ago) I woke up and realized that everything can be summed up in one word. M-A-N-I-P-U-L-A-T-I-O-n. Once I recognized that NONE of the numbers coming out of the government or the stock market can be taken at face value and the analysts and financial advisors are full of sh*t, I started to make money. One of my favorite comedy shows is CNBC’s MarketWatch."

Mike,

I totally agree with your comment. I'm a newbie when it comes to the stock market, and within the short time I've been investing in stocks (about 8 months), I've seen certain stocks (and the market in general) move in ways that has left me scratching my head wondering how can this be?

I have to ask you Mike, how did you come to your realization? I understand that certain people and events can and do manipulate the market, but how do you recognize when a stock is being manipulated to go one way in the face of the numbers coming out and use this info to your advantage?

I'm very interested in your opinion and look forward to hearing from you.

The only reason I kinda disagree with you Randy is the attention Serin is bringing to himself. If the DA lets him slide, then the DA is setting up a precedent where they let everyone in similar circumstances slide. He’s making himself so high profile that they might not end up with any choice, whether they want to go after him or not.

Excellent point. Let's not forget that all too often our criminal "justice" is driven by politics, media coverage of celebrity perps, and "making examples" rather than by rational, consistent enforcement of the law. Casey has made himself a "person of interest" to his lenders, the public, the media and to law enforcement by posting the gory details of his fraud. He may very well be the next high-profile public "example" of this train wreck we are watching unfold.

It's time for another garden related non sequitor from astrid. (AKA favorite online nursery pimping).

http://camforest.com/

I got my fall Camellia Forest catalogue today and the selection this fall looks very good. This company specializes in Asian shrubberies and trees. I've bought from them before and they have very competitive prices and very big healthy plants.

Their specialty is hardy camellias (suitable for NJ to SC, PNW) and prunus mume (ume in Japanese or mei hua in Chinese).

Jon,

Thanks for your sharing your experience. I know a couple people who works in the government and they say the same thing. It's a long painful and problematic process to get in, but once you're in and not totally stupid, you're golden. There's plenty of good people working in the government. The pay is not high but more than adequate for a comfortable stable lifestyle, and at least I can quit worrying about retirement and healthcare.

"Ours went after Vons for not fully disclosing the contents of their imitation crabmeat."

LOL! Fish meal and modified starch?