patrick.net

#TrollingDebtSuckers

Here we go, a thread for the debt owners to gush about their only-on-paper, never-to-be-realized profits. A chance to stick their heads more firmly in the sand, and forget for a moment about how fast that weight of debt around their necks will sink them when the economy implodes. Dive into the government sponsored charts, and forget about all the money and time you're losing with maintenance costs, all the cash you could have invested into something that would give you a realized return that wouldn't depend on some other poor sap paying half a million for your crapshacks in South Central, or some sucker paying $4,000 in rent for a 2/1 in the middle of the desert.

Now hold hands and jiz simultaneously on your home-debtor deeds piled on the table.

(Scrolling up to catch up on the thread. Oh jesus. The graphs are here. Hi Logan.)

YesYNot All Pussy are Rigged says

I tend to agree that Trump want's to lose. The only other explanation is that he is a complete moron

It's both, evidently.

Thunderlips Russian Agent 0069 says

No Major Candidate in US History has accused her opponent of being an outright Agent of a Foreign Power.

Trump did it last night... 'no, you're the puppet... You're the puppet'Thunderlips Russian Agent 0069 says

Did Al Gore not retract his concession on Election Night? Yes or No.

Did Wallace ask Donald if he would concede when the MSM called the election, but before the results were certified? No. He asked him if he would accept the results. He prefaced it by explaining that #LoserDonald talk about the rigged election is why he was asking. Everyone took this to mean 'would he accept the certified results.'

Plus Japan is much older than we are too and so is Germany

Not all of the people intrigued with the potential of a candidate who rose without any support from the status quo are deluded, self-immolating Republicans. The fact is that the Democratic party has been completely coopted by what former President Carter calls the American Oligarchy, and now represents them exclusively.
Some of us are desperate to vote against the interests of Gollum Sachs and the Perpetual Warfare Industries. Hillary represents exactly and completely those power bases.
I personally think this was our last shot at thwarting the corporate coup d’etat and restoring democracy and a chance for a humane future.
Or possibly any future at all.
I think we are now well and truly fucked.

You're forgetting that the M's are bigger than the boomers

Robert Sproul says

I personally think this was our last shot at thwarting the corporate coup d’etat and restoring democracy and a chance for a humane future.

Or possibly any future at all.

I think we are now well and truly fucked.

No. I agree about the oligarchy, but the corporations are ultimately collections of good people, so positive change can come from corporations. Not that I'm defending the corporatocracy, or that I think their having as much power as they do is a good thing.

I'm only saying that I do not believe that things are as hopeless as you suggest.

marcus says

but the corporations are ultimately collections of good people, so positive change can come from corporations

You are not very clear on the concept, are you?

Dollar gets stronger, imports get cheaper, service inflation always rises here

Nothing has changed here much... cheaper goods = consumption

If you were to have a deflationary collapsed, it would need to come from massive inflation, the likes we have never seen post 1900

Rigged elections was a left-liberal cottage industry since 2000, declining (but not wholly disappearing) after Obama's 2008 victory.

Ken Blackwell, Ohio Secretary of State, Accused of Rigging 2004 Election against Kerry
2012 Article
https://www.thenation.com/article/ohios-secretary-state-subverts-voting-rights/

http://www.benzinga.com/news/11/07/1789905/forget-anonymous-evidence-suggests-gop-hacked-stole-2004-election

2015 Article - Absentee Ballot concerns
http://www.ohio.com/editorial/your-ballot-is-in-the-mail-uh-oh-1.644907

Michael Connell Hacking and Assassination Conspiracy Theory
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/death_of_republican_computer_s.html

"Right wing election myths" (We don't need ID to vote, dead people voting, manipulated absentee/mail ballots, etc.)
http://www.salon.com/2012/11/14/10_right_wing_election_myths_debunked_by_reality/

It is a suspect accusation coming from the mouth of an ignorant candidate. Trump doesn't understand much other than how to use money he was born into to pressure people to submit to his whim. Media bias, meh, he's pleased as punch to get coverage of any kind. As he spirals down what you're going to hear more and more is not what would originate from Trump's mouth but what would originate from Stephen Bannon's poisoned brain. Trump doesn't know how to utilize this latest tantrum in a tactic or strategy. It's without value to a campaign: that's as obvious as this thread. But for someone with larger fish to fry and a longer future to meddle with, this has practical value. Forget about Trump: this isn't about him.

What's the central legacy of Bush v. Gore, which has its 10th anniversary next Sunday? Republicans see the Supreme Court stopping a lawless recount, while Democrats see a lawless court stopping a legitimate recount. Ten years later, commentators like Jeffrey Toobin protest that Bush v. Gore brought dishonor on the Court. But the Supreme Court's public legitimacy has not suffered.

The real lesson of the Florida fiasco (not merely Bush v. Gore) is about something else: the undermining of the public's faith in the fairness of American elections. This has triggered an ongoing war over their administration.

A straight line runs from Bush v. Gore through a series of election controversies in the past decade. We can walk it from the 2003 California gubernatorial recall circus with its 21 lawsuits to the "armies of lawyers" dispatched to battleground states in the elections of 2004 to the controversies over voter-identification laws. Next, bogus organizations made unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud. When the Department of Justice investigated, they found virtually none. Still, in 2008 John McCain ranted that the group ACORN was "maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history." That election also featured the interminable Coleman-Franken election recount. This time around, disputes about how to spell "Lisa Murkowski" on write-in ballots are playing out in Alaska's recount of its Senate race.

I forgot about the Franken vs. Coleman litigation.

SO, nothing new under the sun here, other than the 'reasonable, experienced' major party Presidential Candidate accusing the other of being an outright agent of a Foreign Power for the first time in US History.

Heraclitusstudent says

In fact if I remember, a ton of democrats spent 8 yrs arguing that Bush stole the election.

We're not talking about a ton of republicans. We're talking about the Republican nominee. Al Gore accepted the election results, once the process played out. The result is what happens at the end of the process. Trump said that he might not accept the result. That's pretty bad. At least we are not talking about his groping as much today :).

Yawn. What a tool, of Bannon and Putin.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/amid-rigged-vote-claims-russia-wants-monitors-in-us/ar-AAjc4xJ?li=BBnbcA1

"On Thursday, he said he will "totally accept the results — if I win."

"In an apparent move to embarrass the United States over Donald Trump's claims of a "rigged" presidential election, Russia sought to send monitors to U.S. polling stations for the Nov. 8 vote, Russian media revealed Thursday."

Yeah, we'll get right on it Vlad, Don, Stevo. Comin' right up.

YesYNot All Pussy are Rigged says

We're talking about the Republican nominee. Al Gore accepted the election results, once the process played out.

First I don't think Trump said he would not accept the result if proved no tampering happened.
Even if he does reject the final result after all complaints have been looked into, then it barely adds to a "ton of republicans". Trump doesn't hold any particularly high moral authority position, nor is he widely respected for his trustworthiness.

It's worth reminding everyone that our institutions are normally designed to be stronger than a single sore loser.

If they aren't then, then there is a deeper issue. It would only be possible if the level of institutional distrust is already extreme. If so, who is to blame for that? Certainly not Trump.

Heres Your Card says

Trump doesn't know how to utilize this latest tantrum in a tactic or strategy. It's without value to a campaign: that's as obvious as this thread. But for someone with larger fish to fry and a longer future to meddle with, this has practical value.

Yeah well, for such a political dummy, he is amazingly close in some polls
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton LA Times/USC Tracking Clinton 44, Trump 44 Tie
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson vs. Stein IBD/TIPP Tracking Clinton 40, Trump 41, Johnson 7, Stein 5 Trump +1
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton IBD/TIPP Tracking Clinton 43, Trump 41 Clinton +2
General Election: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson vs. Stein Rasmussen Reports Clinton 40, Trump 43, Johnson 6, Stein 3 Trump +3

And as far as someone with a larger fish to fry, are we talking about Putin? About Hillary? About the establishment elite in general? Does it matter?

Heraclitusstudent says

First I don't think Trump said he would not accept the result if proved no tampering happened.

There is always some tampering. The election is a mostly fair attempt to figure out who gets the most votes. It's not a 100% accurate system, but it's a very good fairly accurate system considering the difficulty of the task. Keeping the polls open a couple of hours longer might have a bigger impact than the small amount of fraud that might be taking place. The loser is supposed to accept the imperfect results, because they are the best that we can do. An honest effort at fair elections.

Heraclitusstudent says

Trump doesn't hold any particularly high moral authority position, nor is he widely respected for his trustworthiness.

Trump has a lot of power among his supporters. He's making an ass out of himself by running around complaining about how everything is rigged against him and saying that the election system is rigged. He is going to try to convert the hatred and mistrust of the system that he has harnessed an cultivated to enrich himself. This recent behavior is just another indication that he has ulterior motives in this election.

junkmail says

Here's a newsflash!

D. Trump isn't an interloper. He was born here. He's a product of our society. We made him, YOU made him. You're a tiny version of him. You own more houses than you can live in, you have crazy ideas and love to spout them all the time. You love to talk down to everyone. Can't stop telling us how much money you have/making. Love to hear the sound of your own voice. You're constantly abusive even when no one has taunted you. And you don't really like women.

You're just like him and I think you recognize that. And that's why you're scared.

Really? Wow. So much hate for the wogster?
He is a bit fringe on rape and the men's rights movement, but rich a-hole-demagogue he is not. He doesn't suffer fools lightly, but he is far far and a way different from Trump.

YesYNot All Pussy are Rigged says

It's not a 100% accurate system, but it's a very good fairly accurate system considering the difficulty of the task.

He obviously means a systematic attempt to lower his results.

YesYNot All Pussy are Rigged says

Trump has a lot of power among his supporters.

No, he probably doesn't. Many people will vote for him only because they despise Hillary or the system even more.
I don't think many people admire him for the human being he is.

Heraclitusstudent says

Logan is just projecting trends on graphs

Exactly right, I am projecting living human being graphs that have never showed any indication of a deflationary spiral

Great Recession was a household debt bubble on the most over leveraged household debt on non capacity owning debt.

This can never happen again with our regulations in place not to mention you can't create a debt bubble in a light demographic patch.

This cycle might last another 4 years, which means we will be in a expansion still when we are supposedly going to crumble has a country in 2018

If we didn't have the 90 million M's you could come up with a deflationary spiral thesis

However, that isn't the case....

Census live population website
http://www.census.gov/popclock/?intcmp=home_pop

Let me get this straight the guy who says deflation "never going to happen, I've got charts", posts two graphs showing a trend line hitting 0% based on falling inflation from 1980 on. (The graph shows, if the trend continues, it touching 0 in late 2016 early 2017 ... for those that can draw a line.)

Edit: Also for those playing along at home, second graph, mark WWI and WWII on those graphs. As the saying goes, "history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

Rew says

That's why they will vote Trump.

Southern and Mid west Conservative Whites who always vote Republican are voting for Trump and he is still going to lose big to one of the most hated politicians of all time

For the first time Republicans are losing educated White Men

GOP with White College Men
'60 +32
'68 +17
'76 +22
'80 +32
'88 +30
'92 +10
'96 +21
'00 +23
'04 +20
'08 +14
'12 +21
'16 -2 (post 10/6 avg)

Rew says

That's not how Japan's deflation began (asset bubble pop made on paper wealth disappear), nor is it how Germany is hitting deflation now.

Both are two oldest countries for a mature economy of size

You guys should pick on Europe and Japan and then some of your radical deflationary thesis would make sense

If Trump follows through with appointment of judges that uphold the constitution he will limit his own authoritarian powers significantly. So the talk about dictatorship is unwarranted and should he saved for a Clinton presidency.

What if Hillary shoots down a Russia plane? She's shown absolutely no grasp of cascading effects while Secretary of State, or her Iraq War vote.

Our next Secretary of State if illary wins the election.

Hillary's no more likely to start a war than Trump. He sounds like a dove one day and a hawk the next. It all depends on his mood and which way the wind is blowing. Russia doesn't want a war anymore than we do. She's worked with Putin before, and will likely do fine in negotiating with him again. She at least understands that the outcome hinges on getting support among allies in Europe to sanction Russia again more-so than pulling out her dick, squinting her eyes, and having a showdown with Putin. Putin is taking advantage of the fact that Obama is a lame duck to flex his muscles.

Thunderlips Russian Agent 0069 says

Ah, it's when elections are certified now.

I think that this was pretty well understood at the time. Wallace prefaced the question by saying that Trump has been claiming that the election is rigged. Wallace wanted Trump to say if he would be complaining about a rigged election and instigating his supporters to reject the results. Last I checked, results, means final results. Here's a video of the question. Watch Hillary's face light up as she watches him step in shit. The followup question states that one of the prides of this country is the peaceful transition of power, because the election loser always concedes to the will of the people no matter how hard fought the campaign. Even with that as context, Trump will not say that he will accept the election results. Hillary can hardly contain herself while she lets him hang himself.

www.youtube.com/embed/cP0G4vJ5OMw

Deaths from lifting up 1000000%

It's going to be a Twatocracy. That is, when it isn't a ChickWithDickocracy.

YesYNot All Pussy are Rigged says

I think that this was pretty well understood at the time. Wallace prefaced the question by saying that Trump has been claiming that the election is rigged. Wallace wanted Trump to say if he would be complaining about a rigged election and instigating his supporters to reject the results. Last I checked, results, means final results.

Most people don't think of a 2000 Contested Election when they hear "Results". They think of staying up late Tuesday Night and having a winner announced. There is no "The Word Results uttered in a Debate Always Refer to the absolute final count weeks later" rule in debates.

It was a Pre-suasian Attempt to bait Trump into giving an unqualified yes, so when we go to the 2nd Wednesday in October because Ohio and/or Florida tallies are within a hair's breath, slightly favoring Hillary, the Oligarch Media can press Trump to accept it as it is and not fight. And if he does fight and a recount shows he won, say he went back on a promise before he even became President.

Daddy says Thank you.

Rew says

Ranina practicing the artful Trump comeback.

Rew says

You would get it with Clinton or Trump, as neither has anything on the table to address it. Closest to actually looking like they might do something in this ballpark was Bernie.

Bernie was a hand out on steroids guy, that doesn't get economy moving. It works in short term, long term it's just debt and next generation is fucked paying the bill. We can't do that. We either grow market share, or we go not here nor there (like we are now). What I liked about Bernie is that he was honest, a man of the people. I didn't agree with his methods, but I liked him. He had the courage and heart to speak his mind, and work for the people of this country.

errc says

thanks to Trump voters. There are real issues that intelligent, free thinkers are prioritizing this cycle.

Having these two clauses even in the same county is really funny. Thanks for that.

errc says

The Clintons and their voters, ensconced in hate,

LOL You're a little bit deaf, aren't you? Huh? Never mind.

I don't see the big deal, either. Questioning the results isn't a declaration of war. Refusing to concede while things are looked into isn't a power transfer by force. There have been unprecedented leaks about all kinds of crazy stuff. People have admitted to plots to commit electorate fraud in this very election. This isn't a delusion. It may not make any difference if the spread is big enough, but it should still be investigated and the conspirators punished.

There is a problem everyone seems to miss. The next president could be a Democrat or Republican.
How can this slip by people?

Election fraud has always been a strong part of American history. Remember that it's election fraud, not voter fraud. It's not the voters committing fraud. It's the government officials and election personnel.

It's pretty sad that America is one of the worst examples of "American" values. Most western nations are more American than America.

When Obama took office in 2009 employer-provided premiums cost $13,375. Today they are $18,142. Thanks, Obama.

Back before Obama care ramped up, the monthly premium for a family of 4 was around $300-350 I believe.

Last time I checked, it was closer to a grand.

What a joke.