patrick.net

It now seems like an appropriate time to bring this up!

Renters should have lower healthcare premiums period!

If the insurance industry (which prides itself in worshipping statistics) were being truthful, renters SHOULD pay substantially less in H/C premiums.

As a reformed homeowner I'll have to admit to having gone to some pretty scary lengths to avoid having to pay someone else to fix "my" home.

The liklihood that I would be "re-wiring" ceiling fans, digging for the septic tank lid (in a thunderstorm no less) going on a ladder for anything other than putting a plastic jeebus up are uh........ almost nil! The sheer amount of power equipment that all kinds of shows are aggressively promoting for use by cubicle types should be alarming! As a renter the ONLY thing I have done is to knock out a drain plug for the garbage disposal so the dishwasher could be hooked up (maint. guy forgot) and I was PISSED about that! Overall "stress level"? Zilch. We should totally not be paying the same premium level as an "owner" our age/gender etc! JBR's unite!

I once had a client that was an ER doctor in IA (that's Iowa btw) and he said the amount of homeowner "self inflicted" injuries they saw in an avg. week were staggering! True, not like having a terminal illness but shooting a nail gun thru your husbands upper thigh (I know, see missed) is still pretty freakin' serious!

Look at all of our friends that cut corners while installing fiberglass insulation (cheapie respirator etc.)

There was a time when most homeowners had a hammer, pliers and a few screwdrivers. Now? It's "You can do it!" (and we can help) I forget, is that Lowe's or Home Despot's sales slogan?

Good idea DinOR.

However, it will never fly. Homeowners will find enough votes to throw that out.

Patents are not all bad. Without them, there will be no incentive to develop drugs.

The more important is probably a constitutional amendment that guarantees access to animal testing.

Also, attacking medical research facilities should be considered a crime of high treason.

Peter P,

Would you agree though to at least "some" degree JBR's subsidize John and Jill McDebtor's H/C premiums?

I mean I can recall being on a 24' extension ladder (at home by myself at least 10 miles to the nearest clinic) reaching, over-reaching actually and swatting angry hornets to avoid having to go back down and move the ladder over a foot and half! Homeowners do a lot of not so bright things, myself included. How many times have we heard of some doofus in his 80's falling off his roof?

The way I see it is the Ins. Co's could treat it the same way they treat "extreme sport" J.O's.

1. Do you own and use a ladder over 6' tall?

2. Do you attempt electrical repairs yourself?

So on and so forth. It really wouldn't be that big a deal.

Would you agree though to at least “some” degree JBR’s subsidize John and Jill McDebtor’s H/C premiums?

Of course. But since when policies are drafted according to logic?

People do not even want their auto insurance premium to be based on their zip codes.

On big problem is the following conflict:

1. The true costs of healcare should be passed on to the users for optimal allocation of resources.

2. It is perceived that every person should have access to "basic" healthcare

There will never be a resolution. :(

2. It is perceived that every person should have access to “basic” healthcare

Therein lies the problem. What is basic? Who defines what is included as the baseline? Everyone thinks that all the conditions and ailments of their family and loved ones should be covered as basic.

Does basic include aids medication? Some people will argue no (I am not one of them). What about aids-infected children? How about acute injuries? Head injuries from auto accidents? How about head injuries from bicycle accidents? Does it make a difference if you're bicycling to work versus Mountain Biking down Mt. Tam?

IMO the system will never be truly socialized in our lifetimes. They will first try forcing mandatory minimum coverage requirements on firms in the private sector. That mess will take a good few decades to play out before things are ultimately socialized (and then, many decades after that, ultimately reprivatized and deregulated again).

Peter P,

Oh, agreed and I wasn't perfectly serious anyway. It's just odd that an industry that would charge you more if they could prove that Presbyterians were more prone to slipping on banana peels failing to make the distinction between those that do their own repairs and those that "call the man" seems like a rare "charity case".

While I do agree w/SFGuy that H/C is also an immediate issue (not some abstract) failing to make your premium payment will not (in most cases) put you out in the street. Get behind enough on your NAAVLP and I guess you'll find out!

Randy H,

Good post. I spend more time contemplating those types of issues than I really should. Defining "basic" to me is more about a matter of "choice".

Infants born with AIDS (not to be confused w/AEDS) obviously did not choose this condition. A guy that gets hit by a car ( proceeding lawfully) while cycling to work has more of a claim to "basic" H/C than the @sshole trying to prove "50 is the new 30" on his mountain bike. IMHO.

I will not buy a red iPod. In most cases AIDS is a preventable lifestyle disease.

If they have a pink one for breast cancer research I will gladly pay!

Of course, people who gets AIDS from birth, transfusions, transplants, accidents should have more claim to socialized care.

If one is to implement your point above, all persons who at a young age, face a serious illness, (one which may kill them before they reach maximum earning potential), will have to be euthanised.

Not necessarily. He can also choose to pay for his own medicine or be left alone in the mountains.

England is facing a major crisis in healthcare. Millions of illegals abuse their system and add billions in costs. we cant stay fit in the US when we have to pay a portion of our own costs. When socialized medicine arrives, the imperative to stay healthy will be further minimized. My friend has to visit a nurse for treatment in England. he tells me "they are like doctors". Really? A nurse is equal to an MD for some folks. Meanwhile the obesity crisis rages on. But look at the athletes we admire on Mon night Football. 35% of NFL players are OBESE. Perhaps more so in the MLB. One announcer commented on a 350lb NFL player: boy he is fast. Really? Fast? or fat? Yet the media continues to endorse this without question. The AMA plans to partially regulate sodium intake. Maybe they should address the NFL first.

SFGuy,

SFWoman brought to our attention that 1/3 of H/C expenditures come in the last 30 days of life. I'm not saying it negates your point but she is well qualified to address these types of issues. I've already made the commitment to my family that when it comes down to this I will be in a seaside bar in Rosarito.

England is facing a major crisis in healthcare. Millions of illegals abuse their system and add billions in costs.

This is just a consequence of globalization. It means that the developed nations have unsustainable welfare systems.

Socialized medicine will cut MD’s salaries to nothing, who will the lawyers sue then?

I suggest disallowing all forms of punitive judgements and limiting compensatory payouts. This should lower the cost.

but if they’re too yoiung to inependently afford the treatment, and we only give them those two choices, it’s as if we’ve euthanised them isn’t it? uhgh…this is such a depressing subject.

Millions of people die every year because of hunger and/or war.

35% of NFL players are OBESE.

There is an obesity scam going on though.

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/issuepage.cfm/topic/37

But part of being human is to fight against the ills of randomness. That may be impossible for an individual, but it has not been proven so for civilization.

I like to see that as fate. We may want to reconcile with the futility of such fights.

SFGuy,

I'll see if I can find the article, I believe she linked it from the AMA?

I've never had my attitude described as "wonderful" and I'm o.k with that. There's something uniquely eastern european about not being all that fearful of death, perhaps even a little curious? Generations of Russian winters? My father........ o.k guy, waited until it was time, went to down the VA and they hooked him up to a morphine drip in the hospice. Then again like you say, he knew what was coming.

He did not spend his final hours "repenting". He cracked jokes and made a "pass" at the nurse for our entertainment. It's all in how you look at it I guess. Classy guy.

SFWoman's reference to health care costs at end of life are absolutely true. Not only that, but as a society, we have essentially taken the (potentially) dignified act of dying at home with family and mutated it to this hideous, mechanical and cold medical event in the hospital. I'm all for keeping my income up, but this is too much. I particularly despise when the reason we throw the medical system and all its bells and whistles at a patient is because the dying patient's children swoop in from god knows where after being out of the picture for years and pushes all of this on their sad parent, usually out of guilt.

Millions of people die every year because of hunger and/or war.

This is where I'd like to make a modest proposal....

So you think civilization too has no hope against randomness/fate?

There is no such thing as randomness.

There is no hope against fate.

I particularly despise when the reason we throw the medical system and all its bells and whistles at a patient is because the dying patient’s children swoop in from god knows where after being out of the picture for years and pushes all of this on their sad parent, usually out of guilt.

Proposal: estate tax should be waived for those who keep end-of-life medical costs to a minimum. Let's see if the children still feel guilt. Last time I check greed is more powerful.

There is no hope against fate.

And just earlier I was reading an article suggesting that the idea of innate abilities is largely bunk. While it make seem more economical to euthanize some of the population, I think it would actually be counterproductive. For one thing, it would help to enshrine a culture of "good enough" and "you can't change your fate", the latter of which is, as much as you may not like it, generally considered a vital bit of American culture and innovation.

Proposal: estate tax should be waived for those who keep end-of-life medical costs to a minimum. Let’s see if the children still feel guilt. Last time I check greed is more powerful.

Legislating moral decisions can be dicey. What if that creates an incentive for Big Boomer to "pull the plug" on Greatest Generation pops earlier than they would have otherwise?

For one thing, it would help to enshrine a culture of “good enough” and “you can’t change your fate”, the latter of which is, as much as you may not like it, generally considered a vital bit of American culture and innovation.

You cannot change your fate. But fate only has about 80% influence of your life. The remaining 20% is still up to you.

@Peter P,

Sorry, but you need to look at the "about us" for the reference you sent "debunking" the obesity epidemic:

The Center for Consumer Freedom is a nonprofit coalition of restaurants, food companies, and consumers working together to promote personal responsibility and protect consumer choices.

Can we say, fast food industry LOBBY???

Man, that web site really ticks me off. Americans (and the rest of the world, soon) are FAT!

HARM, I just think that people should take responsibility on their own health. I agree that some Americans are clearly obese.

Can we say, fast food industry LOBBY???

Let's say... a food lobby. :)

What if that creates an incentive for Big Boomer to “pull the plug” on Greatest Generation pops earlier than they would have otherwise?

Then the Greatest Generation would be out of luck.

What if that creates an incentive for Big Boomer to “pull the plug” on Greatest Generation pops earlier than they would have otherwise?

And so...? Unless you also change the rules on who makes the plug-pulling decision, I don't think that you'd be causing any greater moral issues. That is, the guy in the bed would be able to write a living will, or otherwise make the call. How he raised the children would also matter, in a beautiful display of poetic justice.

Is that a controlling 20% though? Otherwise, it doesn’t matter, does it?

Yes. You can control 20%.

I have a sample set of friends who have done quite well with that 20%, so I am of course biased. On a side note, Peter P, what is your opinion on privatizing national defense?

On a side note, Peter P, what is your opinion on privatizing national defense?

This is the most difficult thing to privatize. I doubt it is possible.

I have a sample set of friends who have done quite well with that 20%, so I am of course biased.

Perhaps because that 80% fate is favorable to them? I am not judging. Also, it is all relative.

HARM, I just think that people should take responsibility on their own health. I agree that some Americans are clearly obese.

We are in total agreement on this. However, that site you posted (as skibum pointed out) is a propaganda organ funded by the food lobby. I woudn't trust any data or conclusions drawn therin. There are plenty of valid/reasonable disagreements out there as to why Americans got so fat or how to reverse the process, but I don't think denying there's even a problem is the way to go.

Personally, I'm pro-Atkins low-carb diet, which, of course, the vegans hate. I lost 90+ pounds, dropped my blood pressure, vastly improved my cholesterol levels and am far less prone to getting sick than I used to be, thanks to a low-carb diet. I understand it may not be for everyone, but I do think that ingesting massive quantities of corn syrup, fructose & other refined sugars is NOT a natural state for human beings. We adapted over millions of years to a diet that did NOT include 40oz Pepsi big-gulps, deep-fried Snicker bars and Snackwells.

@SFGuy,

If anyone has the link i’d love to see it.

Below is the abstract from a prominent paper from NEJM (New England Journal of Med) from 1993 (ref, J. Lubitz and G. Riley, Trends in medicare payments in the last year of life. New England Journal of Medicine 328 (1993), pp. 1092–1096.)

The point of the article was more that the % spent in the last 60days hadn't changed much over the years they studied, but that % is 40% for the last 30 days and 52% for the last 60 days.

Background: Increased attention is being paid to the amount and types of medical services rendered in the period before death. There is a popular impression that a greater share of resources is being devoted to dying patients than in the past. We examined trends in the proportion of Medicare expenditures for persons 65 years old or older in their last year of life to determine whether there were any changes from 1976 to 1988.

Conclusions: The same forces that have acted to increase overall Medicare expenditures have affected care for both decedents and survivors. There is no evidence that persons in the last year of life account for a larger share of Medicare expenditures than in earlier years.

We are in total agreement on this. However, that site you posted (as skibum pointed out) is a propaganda organ funded by the food lobby.

HARM, everyone should think and no one should trust *any* lobby.

However, I like this particular lobby because it fight against other propaganda organs that I dislike. :)

BTW, I follow a mid-carb, low-sugar, high mercury diet. :)

@SQT,

Mostly though, everything in moderation is key.

Tell that to your average fat McDebtor driving their McSUV back and forth between their McAlbatross and McDonalds so they can have a snack while watching the game on their McPlasmaScreen.

A) when I drive my motorcycle, I barely control 1% of all the moving parts. It is however a controlling 1%. It determines everything the bike does.

If you ride carefully, you can still be runover by a truck. If you ride rectlessly, you can still survive a crash.