patrick.net

rando says

I think you've got Trump supporters' feeling wrong.

It depends on what you mean by supporters. There are people who voted for Trump even though they didn't like him. People who wanted any change. People who considered him the lesser of two evils. People who just found Hillary unacceptable. People who could not let the DNC be rewarded for their treachery. I would not call any of these people Trump supporters. Hell, I was one of the people in the last group. At worse, they are Trump tolerators, forced to pick one evil or another.

Then there are the die hard supporters who never believe that Trump does anything wrong no matter how strong the evidence. CBOEtrader, Strategist, and piggy are examples of these people. They like Trump for the same reason they liked Bush Jr. He's an idiot they can identify with, and he makes them feel smart and important. He's not doing anything in their interests, but he says things they like being said.

rando says

Those voters correctly perceived that the coastal elites also have contempt for Trump for similar reasons, and so they feel a kind of kinship with him as a fellow "deplorable".

And that is tribalism. It's the cause of most of our problems.

I've said many times that the left and the right are just two conservative tribes fighting each other. Tribalism is the quintessential property of conservatism. At it's core, conservatism is dogmatic loyalty to your tribe and a hatred of all other tribes. It is based entirely on identity politics whether it's the KKK or SJW. It's always about race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, immigration status, cowboys or hippies, or some other us vs them group mentality.

In contrast, liberalism is all about the rights of the individual and making sure no person has power over another person. We need more liberalism in our country. It's the only cure for the left and the right, as well as for Islamism.

And this is a very serious problem. It has become the norm for each tribe to outright promote debunked lies as indistinguishable facts and to reject all facts that contradict their ideology as falsehoods. The very concept of a republic does not work unless the population has a strong, accurate grasp on reality including distinguishing between facts and falsehoods. No republic, nonetheless a democracy, can survive if the voting public is delusional.

The unconditional support of Trump displayed on PatNet and in general is essentially a religion. It is devoid of factual accountability and based entirely on faith. Politics as religion is always a dangerous thing.

socal2 says

But they loved Bill Clinton and his enabling wife Hillary.

Another fine example of tribalism. Us vs. them. You either on my team or the enemy team.

Can't accept that both are bad.

BlueSardine says

He's a scud, launched into the corporate process known as the US government, by people disenfranchised on so many levels.

Bring back the manufacturing jobs, Trump goes away.

Scale back political correctness to sane levels, Trump goes away.

Give us our private bathrooms, Trump goes away.

At least appear to protect our borders, Trump goes away.

and on and on and on...

Nah... it's easier to just stone him.

Dan8267 says

Then there are the die hard supporters who never believe that Trump does anything wrong no matter how strong the evidence. CBOEtrader, Strategist, and piggy are examples of these people. They like Trump for the same reason they liked Bush Jr.

Lol, dan consistently thinks he knows shit he doesn't know. I neither voted for trump or bush jr. I think bush jr is perhaps the worst president ever, with the possible exception of Obama.

zzyzzx says

CNN is fair in the same way that Russian elections are fair. In fact they get about the same stats, 96% solidarity w their propaganda.

Dan8267 says

I've said many times that the left and the right are just two conservative tribes fighting each other.

This is fair. Obama and Clinton are both neocons.

Trump is standing up to the bi-partisan criminals, while they show they are thick as thieves against him.

How about we take a look at the DNC servers, seth rich's laptop, comey's notes, and all transcripts of comey/trump and trump/Russia meetings... then go from there?

Dan8267 says

The people who were counting on Trump for their economic livelihood were duped. They were fools,

Clinton said that NAFTA was create Millions of new jobs:

http://www.history.com/topics/us-presidents/bill-clinton/videos/clinton-signs-nafta

If you think that in 3 months that Trump (who has started many businesses) is duping people when NAFTA made over 100,000 small businesses bankrupt and most of the manufacturing is done offshore, then who is being duped?

Who is the better president? One that hold onto NAFTA as the giant sucking sound of jobs implodes the US economy for over two decades?
Who is the better president: One that lobbys outwardly to keep Carrier and 100s of other jobs from being outsourced?

What a fool believes.......

CBOEtrader says

This is fair. Obama and Clinton are both neocons.

Obama is a neocon? The guy that went against all of his military and State Department advisers by pulling every last troop out of Iraq, gave Russia a free hand in the Middle East, gave billions to Iran in a misguided nuke deal, emptied out GITMO, and took every opportunity to shit on Israel?

That Obama? Geesh.

socal2 says

The guy that went against all of his military and State Department advisers by pulling every last troop out of Iraq

You mean when he followed through on Bush's commitment ? Powell was right when he said you break it,
you own it. The problem is we couldn't afford to own Iraq.

CBOEtrader says

Lol, dan consistently thinks he knows shit he doesn't know. I neither voted for trump

I never said you voted for Trump. Once more you are caught in lies.

I stated that you are unconditionally supporting Trump and every thread and post you've made in the past month demonstrates that.

socal2 says

CBOEtrader says

This is fair. Obama and Clinton are both neocons.

Obama is a neocon? The guy that went against all of his military and State Department advisers by pulling every last troop out of Iraq, gave Russia a free hand in the Middle East, gave billions to Iran in a misguided nuke deal, emptied out GITMO, and took every opportunity to shit on Israel?

That Obama? Geesh.

The neocons in team left disagree w the neocons in team right as a form of performance art for idiots. When pressed both sides increase govt size/scope/power, increase debt, bomb-the-fuck out of everyone, attack civil liberties including but not limited to personal privacy, and set up systems that steal money for their friends while hurting the working middle and lower classes.

They are thick as thieves when attacked by a real threat, like a ron paul type of movement.

marcus says

I really don't understand your point. Clinton was impeached for fooling around with an intern.

But Bill (and his enabling wife) are still heroes for the Democrat party, Media and many feminists.

How come Bill isn't treated like Bill Cosby or Bill O'Reilly by the Media? I don't believe anyone has accused O'Reilly of raping anyone.

Dan8267 says

lies.

I question your command of basic english

marcus says

You mean when he followed through on Bush's commitment ? Powell was right when he said you break it,

you own it. The problem is we couldn't afford to own Iraq.

We couldn't afford to keep 5,000 or 10,000 troops in Iraq to maintain the hard won gains? We have the biggest military budget in the world.

Besides, Obama had to return 5,000+ troops back to Iraq and Trump will send more as we finish off ISIS in Syria.

Dan8267 says

I stated that you are unconditionally supporting Trump

Pointing out fake news and fake narratives that are tearing our country apart is not supporting trump unconditionally. I do support him as our president and hope he drains the swamp.

You vultures would rather our country burn to the ground than MAGA.

"Trump is standing up to the bi-partisan criminals, while they show they are thick as thieves against him."

And how exactly is he standing up to them? Name any actions he's taken that "stand up" to them.

joeyjojojunior says

"Trump is standing up to the bi-partisan criminals, while they show they are thick as thieves against him."

And how exactly is he standing up to them? Name any actions he's taken that "stand up" to them.

He ran for office, turned their weaponized political correctness against them, and won. Ya know, for starters.

CBOEtrader says

He ran for office, turned their weaponized political correctness against them, and won. Ya know, for starters.

That was the easy part.....relatively speaking. I think a paper bag could have beat grandma Nixon this past election cycle.

It will all be for nothing if Trump drags the entire party down and hands it back to the Democrats for the next several elections.

Trump is way behind in making political appointments to clean up the mess of the Federal Government. At the very least, he should have had someone ready for FBI if he was going to fire Comey the way he did.

socal2 says

Trump is way behind in making political appointments to clean up the mess of the Federal Government. At the very least, he should have had someone ready for FBI if he was going to fire Comey the way he did.

He's being obstructed at every turn. He cant eat breakfast w/o someone saying its a Russian conspiracy to promote captain crunch.

CBOEtrader says

who are all currently being laughed at internationally

Yes, that sounds right. The typical above average intelligence europeans on the street are talking about how messed up the NYT, WaPo and CNN are. Exactly. This will help destroy the EU and will guarantee more right wing fascists come to power in Europe.

CBOE: "Nailed it !"

CBOEtrader says

He's being obstructed at every turn. He cant eat breakfast w/o someone saying its a Russian conspiracy to promote captain crunch.

In terms of appointments, Trump hasn't even presented a list for many of the posts for Congress to obstruct. Case in point, the FBI director. It was criminally stupid to fire Comey and not have a solid replacement ready for consideration.

Yes - the Democrats and the Media are bonkers, blowing alot of shit out proportion. But lets not make excuses for Trump on issues like this.

socal2 says

But lets not make excuses for Trump on issues like this.

The democrats say they wouldn't vote for a new director even if he had one. If trump is behind on his list of things to do, look at the shit that's been thrown at him. Its totally and completely w/o precedent at every level.

CBOEtrader says

I question your command of basic english

You can question the truth all you want. It does not change the truth.

marcus says

internationally

marcus says

average intelligence europeans

You have a Eurocentric view of international, you racist :) My cousins in Germany and the UK are laughing at CNN and NYT. The entire world has laughed at our biased media for at least 25 years. When I was in Panama, the latin americans openly referred to our media as propaganda. This isn't exactly a secret.

Dan8267 says

CBOEtrader says

I question your command of basic english

You can question the truth all you want. It does not change the truth.

Is your pet nickname for yourself "the truth"? That's sort of awesome

CBOEtrader says

So yes, it was a big win against the bi-partisan team neocon.

It must kill you that Trump stuffed his administration with a bunch of "neocons" like Mattis, McMaster, Hailey, Pence.....- right?

What happened?

Was Trump always a neocon just talking bullshit during the campaign to get the 9/11 troofers all excited? Or was Trump too weak and unable to appoint his own foreign policy team without "neocons" infesting it?

socal2 says

Was Trump always a neocon just talking bullshit during the campaign to get the 9/11 troofers all excited? Or was Trump too weak and unable to appoint his own foreign policy team without "neocons" infesting it?

I don't fucking know man, the media doesn't ask him reasonable questions like this. They don't engage him in productive conversation. They just scream Russia and impeach over and over again.

McMaster is particularly troubling.

Perhaps its impossible to drain the swamp. Perhaps he's taking poor advise. Or perhaps he saw the billions that other presidents can easily steal, and decided to take part in the party.

I really don't know. I do know the MSM is the enemy of the people, regardless of whether trump is a solution or just another chode. W all these investigations we shall know more soon.

Tim Aurora says

That said, he could still get by but for his unusual liking for Russians.

He needs the Russians to fight ISIS for us, the same way he convinced China to help w N Korea. His foreign policy strategy requires allying ourselves w the Russians.

CBOEtrader says

the media doesn't ask him reasonable questions like this. They don't engage him in productive conversation. They just scream Russia and impeach over and over again.

This is true.

The media is nutty lately, frothing at the mouth and desperately leaping from one unsubstantiated allegation to another. Their credibility has gone to shit.

To rebuild that credibility is going to be very hard. They could start by attempting a little bit of objectivity and neutrality.

rando says

To rebuild that credibility is going to be very hard.

No. Reality has a liberal bis and you right wingers lost touch a long time ago. You'll always have Brietbart, Fox and the hate network that Trump and family probably start up (or buy) when he leaves.

At least 2/3rds of the people (about the came percentage that wants Trump out) have no problems with the media.

This is a big win for the right though too. Who would have thought that I would ever be relieved at the prospect of Mike Pence becoming president ?

marcus says

Reality has a liberal bis and you right wingers lost touch a long time ago.

Right - kind of like these realities that Liberals believe?

- There are more than 2 genders?
- There are no innate differences in the sexes?
- Single mothers with government assistance are just as good at raising children as a 2 parent family?
- Public Sector unions are awesome for government efficiency?
- Public Sector pensions are not Ponzi Schemes?
- If you like your Doctor, you can keep your Doctor.......period?
- Third Trimester unborn babies are nothing but a "clump of cells"?
- We are facing "Peak Oil"?
- There is epidemic of rape occurring on college campuses?
- Women make $.77/dollar compared to a man?
- Socialism is awesome, it is just implemented wrong time and time again.....

socal2 says

Right - kind of like these realities that Liberals believe?

- There are more than 2 genders?

- There are no innate differences in the sexes?

Another dimbulb who needs to use the most strident freakish SJW as some sort of representative of the typical liberal.

You prove my point about how far removed you are from reality. I don't believe any of your supposed tenets of liberalism. Maybe one or two.

marcus says

socal2 says

Right - kind of like these realities that Liberals believe?

- There are more than 2 genders?


- There are no innate differences in the sexes?

Another dimbulb who needs to use the most strident freakish SJW as some sort of representative of the typical liberal.

You prove my point about how far removed you are from reality. I don't believe m0ore than one or two of your supposed tenets of liberalism.

Dan8267 says

There is far more evidence of his crimes than there were of Obama's or Hillary's. You are being partisan.

Dan, Different Treatment:

Lashkar_i_Trumpi says

Different Treatment:

Aren't you embarrassed. Oh, no, I forgot.

Stupid though. Do you actually think that the issue is or ever was whether or not to share intelligence about terrorists with Russia ? You think that's what people are bothered about ? That would make no sense.

IT's about it being highly classified, and Trump willy nilly declassifying it without even consulting with anyone. It is exactly extreme hubris. Of course he fired most of the state department diplomats too. Based on what ? Do we know ?

I wonder whether the leak might have been the Russians. They don't necessarily like having Trump as President. THey just like seeing chaos and a breakdown in America. How could they possibly have fucked us over worse than by getting Trump elected President. Maybe they reckon by getting him impeached after they get elected. That would have to make Putin feel pretty powerful if he could accomplish both, right ?

marcus says

Another dimbulb who needs to use the most strident freakish SJW as some sort of representative of the typical liberal.

Those are all MAINSTREAM positions of your Democrat party.

Can you show me a single Democrat that has criticized let alone passed any legislation against any of those issues?

marcus says

How could they possibly have fucked us over worse than by getting Trump elected President.

If the Russians really swung the election for Trump, they fucked themselves by getting a pro-oil man elected which is breaking the back of OPEC and Russia's petro-state.

Trump openly campaigned on dramatically increasing America's energy production (and our military), while Hillary was campaigning on limiting gas and oil production which would make us like Germany and more hostage to OPEC and Russia for our energy needs.

Yes, the DNC is lead by a bunch of hypocrites. No, that doesn't mean Trump hasn't committed a crime. Obstruction of justice is a crime. The DNC is irrelevant to this. So call out the DNC for hypocrisy while you put Trump in handcuffs.

anonymous says

[President Trump's] mighty adversaries in the highly politicized federal agencies want him to fail spectacularly, and fast, and they have a lot of help from the NY Times / WashPo / CNN axis of hysteria, as well as such slippery swamp creatures as Lindsey Graham.

Part of that results from MIC & Saudi bloodlust demanding war in Syria and hijrah into NATO. Part of it results from MSM having become totally committed to their incredibly exaggerated and sometimes imaginary narrative about Donald Trump: their credibility and identities as the "smart" people depend on the President leaving office before he has time to prove he isn't Hitler.

Unfortunately, he's giving the MIC & Saudis much of what they wanted: more military spending, three illegal attacks on Syria so far, more weapons and support for the wars in Syria and Yemen. The MIC and their Saudi clients appear to be using the threat of investigations and phony charges to make him do what they want.

Even more unfortunately, Democrats are failing to follow Bernie Sanders' lead and draft legislation consistent with the good promises that candidate Trump campaigned on. Democrats should be writing and advocating legislation based on the good things he said. Instead, too many Democrats have decided to become part of the problem, campaigning for more war and hijrah, partly because they get their $$$ from the same sources as the Republicans, and partly because their identities and credibility depend on the fake news narrative that the MSM have been pushing. It's crowd dynamics: they compete to denounce the President and all of his works and all of his temptations, thus proving their loyalty to the misled crowd, while at the same time further misleading the crowd.