patrick.net

It's why you can drive around expensive areas like Santa Cruz, and see weed strewn dumps everywhere. The families just keep them for generations without fixing them up because the taxes are zilch.

You would think you could find a "cheap" place based on appearances, but none of the places are cheap no matter what they look like because of land value.

Any Prop 13 reform has to come with sales and income tax reductions. Also, the coast and the rivers need to be nationalized. You don't own all the rain runoff or the tides.

Private ownership of water is barbarous Spanish-Arab crap, not Anglo-Saxon Law.

Patrick says

ome once told me that all that is necessary to repeal Prop 13 is to publish the property taxes that everyone is paying.

I had this fantasy of writing with chalk the annual property taxes of each home on the sidewalk in my San Francisco neighborhood. The purchase price is all public thanks to online records. So this is very possible. An interactive map website would be very educational and fairly easy to make. I dream on.

So government will take more money and “magically” start spending less? Hahaha!!! Unicorns too?

Work for government and get pensions and full salary after 30 years, paid for by taxpayers who thenselves will never have pensions or retirement.

Why the fuck would anyone want to pay more in taxes for this corrupt horseshit union pandering system?

FortWayne says

So government will take more money and “magically” start spending less? Hahaha!!! Unicorns too?

Work for government and get pensions and full salary after 30 years, paid for by taxpayers who thenselves will never have pensions or retirement.

Why the fuck would anyone want to pay more in taxes for this corrupt horseshit union pandering system?

Thanks for mentioning this. All those who want to eliminate Proposition 13 are renters who don't realize the extra revenues generated will be wasted by the government as usual, and their rents would go up, because higher costs are always passed on to the consumer.
Suckers!

Strategist says

FortWayne says

So government will take more money and “magically” start spending less? Hahaha!!! Unicorns too?

Work for government and get pensions and full salary after 30 years, paid for by taxpayers who thenselves will never have pensions or retirement.

Why the fuck would anyone want to pay more in taxes for this corrupt horseshit union pandering system?

Thanks for mentioning this. All those who want to eliminate Proposition 13 are renters who don't realize the extra revenues generated will be wasted by the government as usual, and their rents would go up, because higher costs are always passed on to the consumer.
Suckers!

I remember prop 13 was passed because people were losing their homes, could no longer afford a reasonable living standard because of high taxes. Unions were ranking in the tax dollars, total waste, fraud, abuse. And regular people were getting screwed. It's why prop 13 passed in the first place to keep government from screwing us all.

And the audacity they have to call this "revenues". It's not revenue, it's taxes. Nothing is made in the process, all they do is shake down whatever money we have so they can pay themselves extravagantly.

High cost of housing is a supply and demand issue, not an "insufficient taxation". Anyone who wants more housing and lower rent... well build more houses. Don't let government artificially restrict supply, while propping demand with all sorts of illegals they bring and cram into tiny places.

I can really go on and on about this government and their failures. Thanks for mentioning Strategist.

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

Redfin and Zillow did that. Nothing happened.

What they did not do is show a map divided into properties with the property tax actually paid by everyone on the map.

I def. will not buy RE in California unless it crashes. I am all for getting rid of prop 13. It’s highly unfair to new buyers. Don’t support this shitty market by not buying. I rather buy crypto currency! Especially on this awesome dip!

All those who don't want to eliminate Prop 13 are losers who can't afford to pay their fair share of property taxes.

anon_3a1a3 says

I def. will not buy RE in California unless it crashes. I am all for getting rid of prop 13. It’s highly unfair to new buyers. Don’t support this shitty market by not buying. I rather buy crypto currency! Especially on this awesome dip!

Hear, hear! When in doubt - buy Bitcoin!

FortWayne says

I remember prop 13 was passed because people were losing their homes, could no longer afford a reasonable living standard because of high taxes. Unions were ranking in the tax dollars, total waste, fraud, abuse. And regular people were getting screwed. It's why prop 13 passed in the first place to keep government from screwing us all.

I'm sure that would have been the case. Old folks living in the same home for decades, would fall victim to loan sharks, because they would need to borrow to keep up with the property taxes that go to support useless, lazy bureaucrats that retire with maximum salary 10 years before the citizen. Who the hell made this even possible? Did we get to vote for it? No, these scumbag lazy bureaucrats thought it was a good idea to give it to themselves. It was so nice of them. They deserve a bonus.

Patrick says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

Redfin and Zillow did that. Nothing happened.

What they did not do is show a map divided into properties with the property tax actually paid by everyone on the map.

Maybe I'm talking out of my ass here, but I think it shouldn't be too hard to crawl Zillow, Redfin or even county site to get current property tax numbers and then create a custom google map with them.

Monetizing it would be hard though.

anon_783f6 says

All those who don't want to eliminate Prop 13 are losers who can't afford to pay their fair share of property taxes.

You are right. Those assholes can't afford to pay:
1. The pensions of the lazy bureaucrats.
2. The welfare payments of those who do not want to work.
3. Providing for the benefits of illegals.
4. Paying $70K per prisoner per year now, when other states pay a $20K or something.
--------
If you can afford to pay all that, please pay, because people like me sure can't afford to, and won't pay that.

Patrick says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

Redfin and Zillow did that. Nothing happened.

What they did not do is show a map divided into properties with the property tax actually paid by everyone on the map.

That data is public. I can even look it up on an assessor website. I think the only reason it's not on Redfin is probably there isn't a market need beyond curiosity or something like that.

You see, without Prop 13, Granny, who owns her home outright, and may live for another 10-20 years, can't afford to pay taxes on her million dollar crapshack. If only she knew about home equity loans.

willywonka says

without Prop 13, Granny, who owns her home outright, and may live for another 10-20 years

That was the case with my cousin Margaret and her husband Bent who lived in San Pedro--they married in 1951 and had lived in their home since 1955. If it hadn't been for Prop 13, their taxes would have gone from something like $1,500 to $7,500, thus causing them to lose their home. Whatever else the problems with Prop 13, that did seem like an unreasonable thing for people to face. I don't even know if they're still living as I don't keep up with that part of my mother's family--Margaret and her sister Nancy visited her in 1991, but haven't heard anything since then. They'd both be hitting 90 by now so it's a good chance they live in other circumstances and newer buyers are now paying the much higher taxes on their former home.

P N Dr Lo R says

taxes would have gone from something like $1,500 to $7,500, thus causing them to lose their home

So why is there no means test for Prop 13?

Fine if you want to save a poor granny from being evicted. And even in that case, let her pay by running up a tab with the government, and paying it off when the house eventually transfers ownership by whatever means.

Not so fine if you want to save landlords, the very rich, and big businesses from paying their fair share. But that is actually why we have Prop 13. Those were the people backing it.

I sure wish the Democrats running California would spend more time trying to reform out of control State spending and waste instead of always trying to devise schemes to raise our already sky-high taxes.

Is it too much to ask for better and more cost effective services from our government? Or do we just have to take the Democrat and union protected bureaucrat's word that there can be no reform and we just need to keep shoveling over our money to them?

PLOT TWIST:

There should be no property tax at all.

Only a tax on transfer when a property sells or goes to a new owner.

Patrick says

So why is there no means test for Prop 13?

Fine if you want to save a poor granny from being evicted. And even in that case, let her pay by running up a tab with the government, and paying it off when the house eventually transfers ownership by whatever means.

Not so fine if you want to save landlords, the very rich, and big businesses from paying their fair share. But that is actually why we have Prop 13. Those were the people backing it.

I think it's because it wouldn't work very well. People who bought back in the days, they can't compete with salaries today. I remember working for $4/hour, there is no time machine that will give me more money in the past during my best times of my lifetime to deal with inflation. And inflation would just put people into real misery.

I understand how someone today pays more than someone who bought long ago. I'm paying almost 10 times what someone paid for it before me. But that someone is in a nursing home already. Seems like a fair thing.

As far as landlordism (if property is classified as rental), way I see it if taxes were raised, there would be consequences. Some would probably not make money on it and probably put them on market (very few though), others would raise rents. I don't know. But I do know that if government taxes something heavily, it generally makes it cost prohibitive for most people, pricing average person out. The way I see it, this government should just tax us less and spend less. It's so bloated and inefficient, it's a sham.

Goran_K says

Only a tax on transfer when a property sells or goes to a new owner.

In other words work kind of like a sales tax--on a $300K home you'd owe another $24,000 if the sales tax was 8%. That would just be a cost you'd have to factor into the price. Already cars are costing what houses used to cost--a new Navigator can cost $72,000, which adds another $5,700, what used to buy a luxury car maybe 40 years ago.

We desperately need a prop 13 tax overhaul. Owners who bought a long time ago or inherited are not paying their fair share. They need to start paying 1.25% of current market value. That’s what we have to pay in case we decide to buy an overpriced crapshack.

P N Dr Lo R says

In other words work kind of like a sales tax--on a $300K home you'd owe another $24,000 if the sales tax was 8%. That would just be a cost you'd have to factor into the price. Already cars are costing what houses used to cost--a new Navigator can cost $72,000, which adds another $5,700, what used to buy a luxury car maybe 40 years ago.

That's how I'd see it. I think the U.S tax system is overly complex, wasteful, and just enlarges government.

What do you guys think?

Goran_K says

That's how I'd see it. I think the U.S tax system is overly complex, wasteful, and just enlarges government.

What do you guys think?

Absolutely agree.

Corporations and individuals that own single family homes for rental should not be "protected" under prop 13. That was not the intent of the law.

There is a blight of neglected rentals all over the bay area. Landlords just collect rent and do minimal maintenance. Tenants don't complain because someone else will pay more for less.

I was driving through Alameda (the island city) the other day and saw block after block of glorious old victorian houses. Restored jewels here and there but many were in states of disrepair from faded paint to nothing put curled paintchips on bare weathered wood.

Slumlords don't need taxbreaks. Neighborhoods need pride of ownership.

willywonka says

You see, without Prop 13, Granny, who owns her home outright, and may live for another 10-20 years, can't afford to pay taxes on her million dollar crapshack. If only she knew about home equity loans.

Granny should move someplace with a lower cost of living. I doubt that the move has to be all that great either (1-2 hour drive from previous location for most people). I can't comment about CA, but if it were DC, there is affordable housing on the Delmarva peninsula, West Virginia, Southern MD, and I'm sure in places in VA too, just not near DC.

Ca is fubar. Supply very low, demand through the roof.

zzyzzx says

willywonka says

You see, without Prop 13, Granny, who owns her home outright, and may live for another 10-20 years, can't afford to pay taxes on her million dollar crapshack. If only she knew about home equity loans.

Granny should move someplace with a lower cost of living. I doubt that the move has to be all that great either (1-2 hour drive from previous location for most people). I can't comment about CA, but if it were DC, there is affordable housing on the Delmarva peninsula, West Virginia, Southern MD, and I'm sure in places in VA too, just not near DC.