patrick.net

I know it's about Lies, Liars and Damn Lies.

If you look at C++ most C++ jobs are teaching C++, or managing existing projects with minimal new code, because the Schools are doing a shit job at teaching people applied programming.
So we have people who learn languages that they don't have a clue on how to use to earn a living. So they end up teaching, or in QA.
When you actually see a job for C++ or any C variant for that matter. The bar to get the job is higher than other languages, and it pays more than the other jobs as well.

C++/C# Software Engineer with FIX - NY up to $300k
HK Consulting, Inc.
New York, NY
$200,000 - $300,000 a year
Requirements
Knowledge of OS and networking protocols (TCP: UDP: multicas: 1 year
C++ and/or C# with low latency FIX: 5 years
Development experience in a Linux environment: 5 years

C++ Software Engineer, 2+ Years, Robotics/Exoskeletons
Dephy, Inc.
Maynard, MA 01754 • Remote work available
$80,000 - $180,000 a year
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Your main responsibilities will be improving our C/C++ software stack and Qt GUI (sensor visualization, data logging, controller tuning, etc.), maintaining the…

Software Engineer
Alphalist
San Mateo, CA +11 locations • Remote work available
$125,000 - $240,000 a year
Easily apply
Software Engineer responsibilities include gathering user requirements, defining system functionality and writing code in various languages, like Java, Ruby on…

Software Engineer - (100K-200K Base Salary) - Annapolis, MD
Smart Hire
Annapolis, MD +9 locations
$100,000 - $200,000 a year
Easily apply to this job without a resumeResponsive employerBe an early applicant
Bachelor’s degree in Computer Engineering, Computer Science or related discipline.
A foundation in a high-level programming language Java, Python, Ruby, C, C++.
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These are all from Indeed, sure most C++ jobs are low paying grunt jobs, just need morons on the payroll, they wont be writing anything important.

But for the jobs that pays the highest no language will pay as much as C++ can pay, for the right opportunity.

You'll never find a Ruby, PHP, or C# job that pays anywhere near 180K, 200K and 300K.
Not unless you assume a larger title to go with it.

It could be they are conflating the pay scale with the skill set of the C++ developers, most can program in any of the popular languages.
Those high paying Ruby and Pearl jobs are going to C++ developers who answered the call, and have experience above and beyond C++.
You're not going to find a person that went to a Coding Dojo and learned a few Ruby tricks making anywhere near that money.

I'm not it that world, but have experience with several of those languages.

If scripting languages are at the top of the list it's obviously more about what the jobs are than what the languages are. I'm guessing network admin and or back end web server stuff. Very specialized.

I was surprised to see Pascal, one of the first languages I learned. Actually it was the first not including a little fortran (with punched cards) back in an earlier lifetime.

The items at the top of that list are the lowest paying jobs.

Tenpoundbass says

The items at the top of that list are the lowest paying jobs.

Lol, top paying is obviously what I meant. Wtf ?

Pascal is on the list and Java is not? WTF?

FuckCCP89 says

Pascal is on the list and Java is not? WTF?

Anyone that works in this field and has fielded jobs in the 5 years, knows this list is as big of a pile of bullshit, those Maximum and Bender lists were.

From the article:

HackerRank, a tech company that focuses on competitive programming challenges for both programmers and recruiters, surveyed over 116,000 software developers and students to figure out what coding languages were associated with the highest pay worldwide.

Programming is cool. I was hooked when I first used BASIC to print my name ten thousand times in green text on the first MS/IBM PC back in the early eighties. I went on to get a CS degree from a CSU Sacramento. Over my career I have used a couple dozen languages.

Programming is not about the code words and syntax of a particular language, it's about logic and algorithms to solve problems. My favorite language is pseudo-code. Once I have figured out how to solve the problem at hand I can translate it into any language that might be used. Granted some languages are better for doing some things and knowledge and experience in that language is valued (often overvalued) in the market.

Software engineering is both a science and an art. Who can say the Boyer-Moore algorithm is not elegant? Too many hackers don't understand the science and depend on their artistic talent. I have seen too many software initiatives that spent too much time and money to fuck up a successful businesses process.

Don't get me started on "database managers" that don't understand normalization.

Edit and repaste the link

Torture the statistics hard enough and they will tell you anything!

Onvacation says

Programming is not about the code words and syntax of a particular language, it's about logic and algorithms to solve problems. My favorite language is pseudo-code. Once I have figured out how to solve the problem at hand I can translate it into any language that might be used. Granted some languages are better for doing some things and knowledge and experience in that language is valued (often overvalued) in the market.

Pseudo Code is nonsense if you don't already have a language, process and platform already in mind.
10 lines of pseudo code may be represented with one lambda expression, there's so much looping and temporary heaps you can avoid by using LINQ.

Those if's, loops and recursive method calls, could never be realized in the code.
The single most important starting place is the Data model, all failed software projects, treated the Data model as an after fact to prove the concept of bad coding practices.
Where if you start with a great model, then all of the data challenges will be solved before the first line of code is created. Really after that all you need is MVC CRUD Pages and bare minimum Structure coding. Where you put the Business rules should then be considered second. The rest is easy.

Onvacation says

From the article:

HackerRank, a tech company that focuses on competitive programming challenges for both programmers and recruiters, surveyed over 116,000 software developers and
students to figure out what coding languages were associated with the highest pay worldwide.

So they surveyed out of work people for the highet paying jobs?

Please don't ever question my Spidey Triggers again!

FuckCCP89 says

Pascal is on the list and Java is not? WTF?

I was wondering when someone was going to mention the obvious.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostakovitch says

Someone saw Floyd eat a Twinkee!

It was suicide by transfats!

Case closed!

The three cops kneeling on him were trying to revive him with a brisk knee massage!

Don't lie, we all know he died of COVID-19, everyone in last year in fact only died from COVID-19, even those people who muslims beheaded. They were in fact already dead from COVID-19 by the time muslims got them. FACTS!

Online meetings are better because I can actually work during the portions where I'm not immediately involved. Go to any corporate office and look in the meeting rooms. Two or three people talking and the rest on their laptops. Webex and Skype also solve the problem of roaming the aisles to get to someone's cube that isn't there, anyway. I've even had IMs with people directly across the aisle from me. It's more efficient and leaves a paper trail in case I need to refer back.

Face-to-Face can be beneficial, but I'm willing to drive or fly in to the office a few times a year to get that time in. In the modern office, face-to-face isn't always the most efficient option.

I have Gorilla Glue on my laptop Camera lens, just a beige haze is all anyone sees.

I dial in, and then mute my phone, they can't tell you're muted.

Then I just do bong hits, and play my guitar. I love the Zoom meetings it gives me an hour of peace every other day, without constant emails and calls interrupting me.

Tenpoundbass says

The single most important starting place is the Data model, all failed software projects, treated the Data model as an after fact to prove the concept of bad coding practices.

Agreed!

Tenpoundbass says

Pseudo Code is nonsense if you don't already have a language, process and platform already in mind.

"You start programming and I'll go figure out the requirements." Old programmers joke.

The point I was making is that understanding logic and algorithms is more important for a software engineer than any specific language. Just my educated opinion.

Onvacation says

The point I was making is that understanding logic and algorithms is more important for a software engineer than any specific language. Just my educated opinion.

True, but try to convince any potential future employer of this.

zzyzzx says

True, but try to convince any potential future employer of this.

Ya gotta have skills and experience too!

Onvacation says

"You start programming and I'll go figure out the requirements." Old programmers joke.

Unless it's someone I'll be working with that will also be coding. I would much rather go by the original requirements bullet point, than their pseudo code.
I don't write cookie cutter code, cut and paste from a Miami Dade College course material. I have patterns, and design principals, that I have developed over my 30 year career.

No pseudo code from a business analyst who just barely even understands the business he's writing that pseudo code for, is going to be as robust, powerful and efficient as my processes and standards.

Tenpoundbass says

Onvacation says

From the article:

HackerRank, a tech company that focuses on competitive programming challenges for both programmers and recruiters, surveyed over 116,000 software developers and
students to figure out what coding languages were associated with the highest pay worldwide.

So they surveyed out of work people for the highet paying jobs?

Please don't ever question my Spidey Triggers again!

Out of work people and also those who have never worked. I'd love to see how may of those students are programming computers as a job 10 years from now.

socal2 says

When are we going to talk about African Americans refusing to form families and raise the children they create?

From what I've heard, G. F. is a perfect example of this problem.

Tim Aurora says

While I was doing jury duty, during the jury selection, the district lawyer asked everyone ( under oath) if we has any misgivings about police. One after another, most of the blacks had harrowing stories about police harassing them. So it is not just about one death, It is also not about black vs white racism as Black police officers also mistreated their brothers. It is about the culture of harassment for black folks at the hands of police.

You telling me that America does not promote victim mentality in order to gain benefit? (Because that's all over the tv)
You are telling me that police black/white specifically target black people? (No evidence for that, I've seen whites feel same way)
You are telling me that people would not lie to get out of jury duty? (lol) Dude if I could use an excuse, I'm out of there instantly!

All I'm saying Tim is that those 3 reasons I listed could very well explain your experience just as well. Because claiming that there is racism, without actual proof of racism is not really a valid explanation.

I hate Zoom. I had to fire the makeup department, the costume department, the interior design department and the script writer. Then I realized they were all me.

Salaries in expensive areas like San fran, ny, dc are higher than philly but cost of living is higher also.
Also manager n director of so pays better.
Also salaries been cut due to covid.

What IT career pays best?

AnyKey says

I'd like to see how many coders on this forum are still programming in 10 years as well - A.I. will do those jobs much cheaper with no H.R. headaches.

Cognition is not a mathematical equation.

While AI can come up with brilliant random algorithms man would have never came up with. That a human can then evaluate and see where it solves problems for it's purpose.
Dumb dynamics can do way more than AI ever will do for solving problems. It does so without caring or evaluating the needs, as all data is treated equally. Even dynamic programming doesn't address the entire scope of a project, and is usually only used in an entity of the schema of a data model. Examples of this pattern is Car Features and Options. So you don't have a table with thousands and thousands of fields wide, and you don't have millions of tables for each model.

You can't tell AI I want software to manage a Pizza operation from soup to nuts make it happen. It may assists and be employed in some of the solution processes but it wont be the architect and coder.

I've been writing about hype tech for years, and have a 100% track record on being proven right every time. AI is over hyped for what it does and can do. It's amazing but it will never replace the cognitive abilities of human with Down Syndrome, not with 1 million qbits.

But back on AI, the human gut is our second brain. That is the gut feeling you get when you see a person, but even before you brain has parsed why you think that person is trouble. Your gut has already made you wary and careful of this person. Or even a bad deal, or bad trade, your brain my be saying yes yes yes. But your gut will remember the problem it caused the last time you made a deal like that and lost your shirt. Imagine a software system that can evaluate data before it has even parsed or consumed it, and made any filters or queries. I'm not talking about data validation based on data types and lengths here, or doing data look ups to see if the Customer exists.
The Third Eye makes choices and decisions without mathematical computations or matching one data set to another data set.

Another amazing feat of the human brain computer is thought.
Computers will never daydream and brainstorm.
The Eureka moment, is just that a moment it happens in a split millisecond in a moment of time.
Yet you glean so much information from this sudden surge of knowledge and ideas to try.
Ideas like that don't happen in chronological steps it's a huge heap of data just inserted in your brain. That is why when you have those moments you want to get a pen. People say before I forget, but it's really so they can unpack what the psyche has just placed on your brain. You then have to chronologically write out the idea in order and complexity required to succeed.
Song writers always say, "It just came to me" the same with writing songs, pretty much whole song in a concept happens all at once. The song writer then has to write it down or forget it later if he doesn't, or doesn't at least start playing at that moment.
Another way this chunk data manifests itself is dozing off in a midday drowsy nap. Especially when you're trying hard not to, and you keep forcing yourself to snap out of nodding off. I'm amazed how in many instances, I'll look at the clock on my computer and see it's 4:00pm for an example. Nod off, jerk out of it, and then realize I just had a daydream that would take over 20 minutes for me to explain or go through the events. Yet the clock just turns 4:01 when I look at the clock.

AnyKey says

P.S. If you are over 50ish and a coder - jog your memory back to the dot.com crash. Your new gig will pay much less or you will be doing a different line of work.

I could do C# back then so i was worth more than those doing VB.NET.

Tim Aurora says

I do not think that these people were lying.

Okay, so you don't know. Thinking someone isn't lying and knowing are two different things. They could have been lying and likely were. No judge during jury duty is going to hold you in contempt of court if they "think" you lied about something. They'll just dismiss you. It's not a big deal for them. I'd say 50% of people make up lies to get out of jury duty. Maybe more. You have a lot of blind faith in the random public.

Tim Aurora says

Yes, they target black men .

There is no evidence of that or proof. If some cops do do that, they get fired.

Tim Aurora says

I would not lie under oath and I do not think that these people were lying.

Possibly sure, but also possibly they were. I've seen people tell crazy fairytales in court under oath. Unfortunately oath means very little to many people if they don't think they'll be caught.

All I'm saying Tim is that it isn't accurate to always assume racism, and many people do. It's not critical thinking. Let's say those men believed they were discriminated, well they were very likely using same logic where they just assumed that white cop was targeting them (which is kind of racist).

Industry is coming back and we're going to see America putting less emphasis on over hyping and over selling of tech.

There's going to be plenty of factories and machine shops, tech wont be the only game in town.

As for relevance, that's always been my motto "Stay Relevant My friends."

I'm the only technical person at the company I work for, down from seven doing different tasks from network to reporting, to ERP management.
I wrote all of the middleware systems. Guess they can't do without me. Or I would have been the first to go.

WookieMan says

Patnet, this is why I keep coming back. The OP has not responded to anything and we're now on the topic of statins. Which will then result in Tim coming back and reprimanding for you not staying on topic in 5...4...3...2...1...

Don't you think free flow of thought is more interesting than a structured discussion? I certainly prefer that, and I just assumed most people preferred it. Only when I'm trying to solve a specific problem do I want it to remain entirely on topic.

I bet perl programmers are highly paid just because they tend to be older and have more experience. Not really about the language itself.