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609
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:54am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:54am
mell says
That's exactly the point.
A lot of work and resources go into mining and refining gold. A gold coin represents that labor and those resources. Once mined you have a shiny, useful, object that will last until inexpensively recycled into something else, maybe jewelry or part of a microchip. You can always find a buyer for your coin. People will continue to find, refine, and desire gold. It is what it is.
A lot of work and resources go into "mining" bitcoin. There really are no coins. There are bits (digital 0's and 1's) on a flashdrive representing an individual's share of the pie. The pie is a ledger that documents each "anonymous " transaction so that all decentralized ledgers agree. Incredibly energy intensive and the whole thing goes away if you pull the plug. You can always sell a bitcoin but if the price is too low the "miners" will only process it at a price, or for a fee.
people have been mining gold since forever
That's exactly the point.
A lot of work and resources go into mining and refining gold. A gold coin represents that labor and those resources. Once mined you have a shiny, useful, object that will last until inexpensively recycled into something else, maybe jewelry or part of a microchip. You can always find a buyer for your coin. People will continue to find, refine, and desire gold. It is what it is.
A lot of work and resources go into "mining" bitcoin. There really are no coins. There are bits (digital 0's and 1's) on a flashdrive representing an individual's share of the pie. The pie is a ledger that documents each "anonymous " transaction so that all decentralized ledgers agree. Incredibly energy intensive and the whole thing goes away if you pull the plug. You can always sell a bitcoin but if the price is too low the "miners" will only process it at a price, or for a fee.
610
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:59am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:59am
mell says
Wouldn't that be extrinsic value?
Bitcoin has as much intrinsic value as the paper dollar it's valued in.
. It has intrinsic value as a decentralized form of payment, potentially anonymous and tamper-proof.
Wouldn't that be extrinsic value?
Bitcoin has as much intrinsic value as the paper dollar it's valued in.
611
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:00am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:00am
mell says
I'd rather hold a bag of emeralds.
It may well drop from whatever high it will reach and not recover but by then plenty of early adopters will have made plenty of money and those arriving late will be the bagholders
I'd rather hold a bag of emeralds.
612
mell
2020 Dec 30, 11:09am
Onvacation says
It has certain qualities if you transact with it that gives it its worth. If gold would lose its desirability for jewelry and bling tomorrow it would still have its raw physical value which is much lower but nonetheless. But even then it depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin. I agree that it would be more likely for bitcoin to become worthless than gold but both scenarios are so unlikely that they're on par with the dollar losing all of its value because it is fiat. That will never happen as long as the US exists and is half-way functioning. We're talking about many years if not decades or centuries down the road, so sure bitcoin can become worthless by then or be replaced with something else but it's irrelevant for our current trading and investing outlook, it's just one part of the asset basket mix, a more speculative and volatile than gold or land, but nonetheless a part of it. Just don't hold all of your net worth in a single asset class and you should be fine.
mell says. It has intrinsic value as a decentralized form of payment, potentially anonymous and tamper-proof.
Wouldn't that be extrinsic value?
Bitcoin has as much intrinsic value as the paper dollar it's valued in.
It has certain qualities if you transact with it that gives it its worth. If gold would lose its desirability for jewelry and bling tomorrow it would still have its raw physical value which is much lower but nonetheless. But even then it depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin. I agree that it would be more likely for bitcoin to become worthless than gold but both scenarios are so unlikely that they're on par with the dollar losing all of its value because it is fiat. That will never happen as long as the US exists and is half-way functioning. We're talking about many years if not decades or centuries down the road, so sure bitcoin can become worthless by then or be replaced with something else but it's irrelevant for our current trading and investing outlook, it's just one part of the asset basket mix, a more speculative and volatile than gold or land, but nonetheless a part of it. Just don't hold all of your net worth in a single asset class and you should be fine.
613
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:16am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:16am
mell says
What are the uses of bitcoin? Paying off ransoms? Laundering money? Hoping that someone, someday, will pay a lot more than you did?
it depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.
What are the uses of bitcoin? Paying off ransoms? Laundering money? Hoping that someone, someday, will pay a lot more than you did?
614
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:18am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:18am
mell says
Kind of like lotto tickets. Don't spend more than you can lose.
it's just one part of the asset basket mix, a more speculative and volatile than gold or land
Kind of like lotto tickets. Don't spend more than you can lose.
615
mell
2020 Dec 30, 11:22am
Onvacation says
Any of the above. Also inflation hedge and a more anonymous, decentralized way of conducting business. Just because it's (partially) deemed criminal now to evade taxes doesn't mean it will stay that way if enough institutions jump into it and lobby. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who currently hide their gains and transactions to save cap gains tax and/or sales/transaction taxes.
mell saysit depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.
What are the uses of bitcoin? Paying off ransoms? Laundering money? Hoping that someone, someday, will pay a lot more than you did?
Any of the above. Also inflation hedge and a more anonymous, decentralized way of conducting business. Just because it's (partially) deemed criminal now to evade taxes doesn't mean it will stay that way if enough institutions jump into it and lobby. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who currently hide their gains and transactions to save cap gains tax and/or sales/transaction taxes.
616
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 1:41pm
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 1:41pm
mell says
Onvacation saysmell saysOnvacation saysit depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.
What are the uses of bitcoin?mell saysit depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.
What are the uses of bitcoin?
Just take a look. Its digital gold. Obviously!
620
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 3:03pm
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 3:03pm
Onvacation says
I don't do ignore, but I think we need to just let this go. Move on. You, myself and others have put out facts and thoughts on crypto, specifically BTC. He's not going to answer because he can't or simply doesn't know. Let him have his circle jerk with whoever wants to receive it.
He threw a $1 corner bet and won... for now. The problem is he thinks sitting at the casino all night is a good idea instead of taking gains. That's why most gamblers are losers. He's likely 27, got sold on crypto by Uncle Ralph at Christmas 2017 and has been holding dead money until now. Throws up screen shots from accounts that look like they're from a pixelated 1990's computer screen. I mean come on, can't even take some gains and buy a decent PC, Mac or phone?
I'm convinced he's paid to do this and has done it under other usernames here. Not a knock on patnet, I know there are tons of lurkers, but I'm not sure the end goal. I don't really understand what paid pumping gets you at patnet. Doesn't understand what a troll is either. Thought the youngster were smarter with the web...
Tell us more about "market cap".
I don't do ignore, but I think we need to just let this go. Move on. You, myself and others have put out facts and thoughts on crypto, specifically BTC. He's not going to answer because he can't or simply doesn't know. Let him have his circle jerk with whoever wants to receive it.
He threw a $1 corner bet and won... for now. The problem is he thinks sitting at the casino all night is a good idea instead of taking gains. That's why most gamblers are losers. He's likely 27, got sold on crypto by Uncle Ralph at Christmas 2017 and has been holding dead money until now. Throws up screen shots from accounts that look like they're from a pixelated 1990's computer screen. I mean come on, can't even take some gains and buy a decent PC, Mac or phone?
I'm convinced he's paid to do this and has done it under other usernames here. Not a knock on patnet, I know there are tons of lurkers, but I'm not sure the end goal. I don't really understand what paid pumping gets you at patnet. Doesn't understand what a troll is either. Thought the youngster were smarter with the web...
621
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 3:18pm
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 3:18pm
WookieMan says
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/89533/anthony-scaramuccis-skybridge-has-invested-182-million-into-bitcoin-according-to-deck
Wow! The mooch had a good idea! invested 182M into Bitcoin! Smart man!
a good idea
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/89533/anthony-scaramuccis-skybridge-has-invested-182-million-into-bitcoin-according-to-deck
Wow! The mooch had a good idea! invested 182M into Bitcoin! Smart man!
622
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 4:10pm
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 4:10pm
G36 says
Lol. There's zero proof they invested a dime. You don't have any proof besides what they say because it's anonymous, right? It's okay to say yes when someone is right. This round might be the pump that kills BTC. The fake trust in it will be tested after this run. I hope you're taking gains, because the fall is going to be dramatic.
Wow! The mooch had a good idea! invested 182M into Bitcoin! Smart man!
Lol. There's zero proof they invested a dime. You don't have any proof besides what they say because it's anonymous, right? It's okay to say yes when someone is right. This round might be the pump that kills BTC. The fake trust in it will be tested after this run. I hope you're taking gains, because the fall is going to be dramatic.
624
Blue
2020 Dec 30, 7:27pm
BTC has better ecosystem for now. If any other crypro(s) can do that, can immediately challenge BTC. Search for "How to Get Started on Creating Your Own Cryptocurrency". Any high school drop out can do it.
625
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 7:43pm
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 7:43pm
@Blue, why dont you start? If you get all these institutions to invest in your crypto, I might invest in it too.
Wake us up when you had some success. good luck!
Wake us up when you had some success. good luck!
626
Blue
2020 Dec 30, 8:09pm
G36 says
As I mentioned BTC is one ecosystem away. Like others mentioned, folks who are in, they try to pump up even more for now. My point was, there is no secret sauce in creating any crypto.
@Blue, why dont you start? If you get all these institutions to invest in your crypto, I might invest in it too.
Wake us up when you had some success. good luck!
As I mentioned BTC is one ecosystem away. Like others mentioned, folks who are in, they try to pump up even more for now. My point was, there is no secret sauce in creating any crypto.
628
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 8:50pm
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 8:50pm
Think about this. Bitcoin won against hundreds if not thousands of cryptos! Institutions are pouring millions and millions of USD into Bitcoin. The price is headed towards 30k and the market cap is bigger than Berkshire Hathaway. We are in ultra bullish conditions for Bitcoin (digital gold).
629
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 8:56pm
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 8:56pm
Other than the criminals that use bitcoin to launder money, there are two types of crypto users, traders and holders.
The "traders" of crypto are hoping they can time the market and sell to a greater fool before the greatest fools are left holding flash drives of bits that nobody wants. They hope to get lucky.
Then there are the holders. The pathetic part about crypto holders is the fact that many of them don't recognize the contradiction of owning the "currency of the future" that will "someday" be worth hundreds of thousand or even millions of dollars per coin. As if when government fiat fails crypto will take over. Some even have holdings in multiple different crypto system "coins". Holders (HODLer's) think they own gold or currency.
The "traders" of crypto are hoping they can time the market and sell to a greater fool before the greatest fools are left holding flash drives of bits that nobody wants. They hope to get lucky.
Then there are the holders. The pathetic part about crypto holders is the fact that many of them don't recognize the contradiction of owning the "currency of the future" that will "someday" be worth hundreds of thousand or even millions of dollars per coin. As if when government fiat fails crypto will take over. Some even have holdings in multiple different crypto system "coins". Holders (HODLer's) think they own gold or currency.
630
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 9:00pm
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 9:00pm
G36 says
When It comes to crypto, how would you define market cap?
For stocks (from Investopedia):
"Market capitalization refers to the total dollar market value of a company's outstanding shares of stock. Commonly referred to as "market cap," it is calculated by multiplying the total number of a company's outstanding shares by the current market price of one share."
the market cap is bigger
When It comes to crypto, how would you define market cap?
For stocks (from Investopedia):
"Market capitalization refers to the total dollar market value of a company's outstanding shares of stock. Commonly referred to as "market cap," it is calculated by multiplying the total number of a company's outstanding shares by the current market price of one share."
631
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:48pm
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:48pm
Market capitalization of Toyota (TM) Market cap: $209.03 B As of December 2020 Toyota has a market cap of $209.03 B.This makes Toyota the world's 38th most valuable company. If you own a share of Toyota you own a piece of Toyota's assets.
What do you own when you own a bitcoin?
What do you own when you own a bitcoin?
632
WookieMan
2020 Dec 31, 3:37am
WookieMan
2020 Dec 31, 3:37am
Onvacation says
Lol. Here, I'll respond for him. G36 says
Given its "market cap" this will likely go down as the biggest fraud in world history outside of wars. Lol... market cap. Never thought one could get dumber after receiving facts. You think one would stop posting after so many times being incorrect about what one is "investing" in.
Market capitalization of Toyota (TM) Market cap: $209.03 B As of December 2020 Toyota has a market cap of $209.03 B.This makes Toyota the world's 38th most valuable company. If you own a share of Toyota you own a piece of Toyota's assets.
What do you own when you own a bitcoin?
Lol. Here, I'll respond for him. G36 says
Given its "market cap" this will likely go down as the biggest fraud in world history outside of wars. Lol... market cap. Never thought one could get dumber after receiving facts. You think one would stop posting after so many times being incorrect about what one is "investing" in.
633
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 31, 6:01am
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 31, 6:01am
Onvacation says
just scroll up. Onvacation already answered that question:
"Holders (HODLer's) own gold."
Its almost correct. Say digital gold or gold 2.0 next time.
Wookie posted the chart that shows the traits of money. Bitcoin is much better than the old gold.
What do you own when you own a bitcoin?
just scroll up. Onvacation already answered that question:
"Holders (HODLer's) own gold."
Its almost correct. Say digital gold or gold 2.0 next time.
Wookie posted the chart that shows the traits of money. Bitcoin is much better than the old gold.
634
WookieMan
2020 Dec 31, 7:33am
WookieMan
2020 Dec 31, 7:33am
G36 says
You (we) are beating a dead horse here onvacation. He won't answer a question and we're just pushing this shit back to the top of Patnet everyday. At some point it is legit spam and we should just flag it as such. I can handle the personal insults as I'm a bigger man, but I'll just start flagging it as spam when it is. Which most of it is. I've been a part of penny stock forums and this is classic spam/pump behavior. No point in torturing other users any longer and drowning out other topics. Just flag it.
Onvacation says
What do you own when you own a bitcoin?
just scroll up. Onvacation already answered that question:
"Holders (HODLer's) own gold."
Its almost correct. Say digital gold or gold 2.0 next time.
Wookie posted the chart that shows the traits of money. Bitcoin is much better than the old gold.
You (we) are beating a dead horse here onvacation. He won't answer a question and we're just pushing this shit back to the top of Patnet everyday. At some point it is legit spam and we should just flag it as such. I can handle the personal insults as I'm a bigger man, but I'll just start flagging it as spam when it is. Which most of it is. I've been a part of penny stock forums and this is classic spam/pump behavior. No point in torturing other users any longer and drowning out other topics. Just flag it.
637
Onvacation
2020 Dec 31, 7:44am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 31, 7:44am
@G36
How big do you think the biggest fool holding crypto will be?
How big do you think the biggest fool holding crypto will be?
639
Onvacation
2020 Dec 31, 7:45am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 31, 7:45am
Again G, if you think it is such a great investment why don't you answer questions?
Not expecting a cogent answer.
Not expecting a cogent answer.
641
Onvacation
2020 Dec 31, 7:51am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 31, 7:51am
G36 says
Why do you think that? Your own words not charts. What do you think makes bitcoin "digital gold"? Is it shiny? Does it store the value of the labor used to mine it? can you efficiently trade it for useful stuff?
I just don't see crypto as anything more than a vehicle for shady people to move money and trick rubes.
Bitcoin is digital gold.
Why do you think that? Your own words not charts. What do you think makes bitcoin "digital gold"? Is it shiny? Does it store the value of the labor used to mine it? can you efficiently trade it for useful stuff?
I just don't see crypto as anything more than a vehicle for shady people to move money and trick rubes.
642
WookieMan
2020 Dec 31, 7:52am
WookieMan
2020 Dec 31, 7:52am
Onvacation says
G36 says
Saying digital gold isn't an answer....
What do you own when you own a bitcoin?
G36 says
What questions havent I answered??
Saying digital gold isn't an answer....
645
Onvacation
2021 Jan 2, 11:38am
Onvacation
2021 Jan 2, 11:38am
After recent price spike, bitcoin requires enough power for a country of more than 200 million people
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/after-recent-price-spike-the-energy-to-produce-bitcoin-could-power-a-country-of-more-than-200-million-people-11609244670
It's unsustainable. Just sayin'
At 92.8 terawatt hours annualized, bitcoin’s power consumption is slightly ahead of Pakistan’s consumption in 2016, and not wildly away from the Netherlands’ consumption that year. Put a different way, the electricity consumed by minting bitcoin could power all the tea kettles in Britain for 21 years.
Two-thirds of bitcoin production is done out of China. More than half of China’s energy output comes from coal, so the bitcoin production is likely to be particularly dirty.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/after-recent-price-spike-the-energy-to-produce-bitcoin-could-power-a-country-of-more-than-200-million-people-11609244670
It's unsustainable. Just sayin'
646
WookieMan
2021 Jan 2, 12:11pm
WookieMan
2021 Jan 2, 12:11pm
Onvacation says
You're not wrong. Hence why you'll never get an answer and just be called a troll. You'll just get the same graph again and "blahhg, digital gold!" This is why his comments and OP's should just be marked as spam. No different than someone posting X company is all you should buy, with links and contributes nothing else. That's spam.
It's unsustainable. Just sayin'
You're not wrong. Hence why you'll never get an answer and just be called a troll. You'll just get the same graph again and "blahhg, digital gold!" This is why his comments and OP's should just be marked as spam. No different than someone posting X company is all you should buy, with links and contributes nothing else. That's spam.
647
Onvacation
2021 Jan 2, 12:51pm
Onvacation
2021 Jan 2, 12:51pm
I just started this thread to point out the flaws of using blockchain as a "currency" and to point out the flaws in the thinking of the people that think it is a legitimate investment and not just for money laundering or gambling.
The fact that the crypto pumpers can't or refuse to give cogent answers to valid questions reflects poorly on them.
The fact that the crypto pumpers can't or refuse to give cogent answers to valid questions reflects poorly on them.
648
WookieMan
2021 Jan 2, 1:00pm
WookieMan
2021 Jan 2, 1:00pm
I'm purging a bunch now. Including my own personal comments. This all has turned into bullshit because of one spammer. Conversation isn't happening and it is just spamming the forum at this point, including my responses. This isn't a crypto forum or penny stock forum. These topics are fine, but it has gotten out of hand and no discussion happening, just pumping a product. Patrick should at least get paid for that.
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