patrick.net

I'm interested in the current status and viability of the pine phone as well (preferably with t mobile but not necessary). I am planning on having 2 phones, keeping my android for business and add pine phone for private matters. Same for email adding probably proton mail account in the future.

I already switched to Protonmail and I'm looking at a second phone for casual encounters

Careful with those pine phones. Yes, they are de-googled but the OS is not hardened against hack attacks like iphone and android are. If you find a way to fix that I'm all ears as at some point I'd like one too.

just_passing_through says

Careful with those pine phones. Yes, they are de-googled but the OS is not hardened against hack attacks like iphone and android are.

You know before Microsoft and Apple hardened their computers and phones, I used to challenge hackers on the internet to access my computer.
It never ever happened not even once. And I was challenging some serious hackers. Without an exploit or a backdoor they couldn't just access your computer as easily as computer OS can be hacked today.

Businesses were hacked back then because all of servers, services and apps that had open ports receiving commands that could be exploited.
Your Windows box could only get hacked if the app you were using was backdoor Trojan, exploit, malware or virus.
People couldn't just exploit open ports over the internet then.

I don't think Hardened means what it sounds like in regards to Microsoft and Apple OS security.

Without an exploit or a backdoor they couldn't just access your computer as easily as computer OS can be hacked today.

Is there an tech reason why OS cannot be on the modern incantation of a ROM chip? Do the same with any exe type software. If the storage only has data, and nothing can be executed that is not on a ROM, then the computer/phone is hack-proof. If constant updates is an issue, get those updates through a hash and flash them, as a flash device can't be that hard to make. No more worms and malware attached to downloaded files.

HeadSet says

Is there an tech reason why OS cannot be on the modern incantation of a ROM chip? Do the same with any exe type software. If the storage only has data, and nothing can be executed that is not on a ROM, then the computer/phone is hack-proof. If constant updates is an issue, get those updates through a hash and flash them, as a flash device can't be that hard to make. No more worms and malware attached to downloaded files.

It's relatively trivial to end worms and viruses once and for all. All executables could be tested to verify they are authorized to run by having a certificate. This is how video game systems prevent you from running arbitrary code on them, the executable (or portions of it) are signed. If you simply had an OS that required all executables to be run to have a signature, you could at least check to see that the program you are running hasn't been modified with a worm or a virus.

This isn't hard to do, and I can hardly be the only person in the world to think of doing this. I believe the reason it's not done, is that computers are purposely left open to malware.

TrumpingTits says

I was fired from my previous job because I didn't bow down on Slack to the BLM bullshit of our Oakland office. Does that count?

Well, if this is true, the world is getting a lot more fucked up then I previously thought.

TrumpingTits says

I was fired from my previous job because I didn't bow down on Slack to the BLM bullshit of our Oakland office. Does that count?

What company maybe a couple Anti Commie pukes can pay them a social call?

TrumpingTits says

I was fired from my previous job because I didn't bow down on Slack to the BLM bullshit of our Oakland office. Does that count?

Which company? Just want to mentally mark a place to avoid.

Patrick says

I'm very interested in the Pine Phone as well. Please let us know how it goes.

Pine has a good laptop that is open source and is only $199.

.

Patrick says

richwicks says

I purchased a Pine phone about 2 weeks ago. They are on backorder, but no google products on them at all.

I'm very interested in the Pine Phone as well. Please let us know how it goes.

@richwicks

@Patrick - have pinephone, it's running Manjaro. Slow response on the screen (like ridiculously slow) Bringing up firefox can take like 10 seconds. Full linux, similar to working on a raspberry pi. Has SSHD, standardized installation procedures with pacman. It's a computer.

I need to install KDE on it, I just assumed whatever was on it wouldn't suck, they apparently are selling the new phones with KDE on it. It's said that it will boot off from an SD card if you install one, I'm going to make use of that.

Not tried to make a phone call on it. I ASSUME that works fine? Once I get a decently responsive OS on it, I'll give you a new review but my recommendation as of this writing is that Manjaro is not usable by normal human beings at this point in time.

I have GCC on it, I've compiled libraries on it, it's more computer than phone. I wanted a development system. The OS will improve over time I'm sure, but Manjaro - crap from the point of view of using it as a phone.

mell says

I'm interested in the current status and viability of the pine phone as well (preferably with t mobile but not necessary). I am planning on having 2 phones, keeping my android for business and add pine phone for private matters. Same for email adding probably proton mail account in the future.

@mell - look one post above. The TL;DR - developer only system at this time. Usable but only by engineers. Very different than an android or IOS system but the look is very similar, the feel is entirely different.

If you've ever used a raspberry pi, you know how you click on firefox to open, and it nothing pops up for a few seconds, THEN the window pops up? That's what clicking Firefox on this phone is like. It's like "damn, did it register? Hmm.. (wait a few seconds confused)" - then it pops up. I've also installed BROKEN packages on it. No reason to have broken packages in the repository, but there are many. qTox is installable but doesn't work, konsole is installable but doesn't work. This may be a property of the OS not the phone itself - and it probably is.

This is running Manjaro - I'll spend some time this weekend going over youtube comments and find what isn't crap for an OS. I would NOT recommend Manjaro though.

I also installed apache on this thing - although it's installed, and I can "start" the service - no webpage shows up. I wonder if there's any way to restore it to factory settings other than flashing it? It's not an Android or iOS replacement yet. It's much more computer than phone.

SSHD works on it fine, and so does SSHFS. It's a computer, not a phone and a pretty slow one at that. Mine has 2GB of memory on it and something like 14 GB of "disk" space. It is supposed to be able to accept SD cards and boot off from them. I've got a 128GB lying around somewhere, I'll try that. I shouldn't have messed with the native OS I don't think. When I get a decent OS, I'll update you on the use.

If there's a decently responsive OS for this, and it runs off from an SD card, this will be my preferred phone though I think. I don't feel I have any control over an Android or iOS - this feels like I totally own it. It really is a full blown linux box. This is an early development phone in my opinion, but over time I expect this to be a go-to for engineers at first, and then consumer. I've seen extremely rapid development done on new linux environments, I don't expect this to be any different. In a year, I think this will be on par with Android - but it won't be for video games and such.

https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1339313815448645635?s=20

richwicks says

have pinephone, it's running Manjaro. Slow response on the screen (like ridiculously slow) Bringing up firefox can take like 10 seconds. Full linux, similar to working on a raspberry pi. Has SSHD, standardized installation procedures with pacman. It's a computer.

Thanks @richwicks that's what I was looking for.

Can you receive and send texts?

Who has been deplatformed from Google for political reasons?

Would it be possible to fool Google and other electronic scans of web pages and posts this way:

"The Election Was Stolen - NOT" but have the "NOT" text the same color as the background. That way anyone reading the pages would see "The Election was Stolen" but search engines and scans would see "The Election was Stolen - NOT" and leave it be.

Here's something funny, Google is now blocking me from talking to somebody within the United States, claiming that who I'm writing to, is not in the United States:

\

You can see the conversation worked in https://hangouts.google.com - to a point.

People ought to stand up and I'll tell you this - I will. Land of the brave - bullshit. Be a political dissident, or lose your nation. It's your choice people. 100 million people can't be stopped, if they stand up.

BTW - my hairdresser was very busy today. I'm glad for her.

Also, Tox is an unbreakable encrypted point to point SMS system. That's my real id, if any of you want to bother to type it in. I understand the protocol and the math, I am not the smartest person in the world, but I believe it's unbreakable unless ECC has been compromised. qTox is the program to use on a computer, Antox on an android - I don't know what on an iPhone:

https://tox.chat/

Maybe that's what got me flagged. Doesn't matter why I was flagged, it matters I was flagged.

Be aware your email, your text messages, and eventually your phone calls are going to be monitored and censored. Welcome to the new USSA. I am a bit ashamed to have worked in Silicon Valley. I feel like it's just a bunch of traitors now and I was an unwitting idiot to work on this technology.

richwicks says

https://tox.chat/

If Tox demands an app install, that's a big red flag for me. Pretty much all apps are spyware imho.

If it works via the web, then I'll use it.

Patrick says

richwicks says

https://tox.chat/

If Tox demands an app install, that's a big red flag for me. Pretty much all apps are spyware imho.

If it works via the web, then I'll use it.

I can build a client, if you can build access to it.

So, I notice on this site, if I have have two webpages open, and post in one web browser, my post will appear in the other web browser - the second I post. How do you do this? Is this an HTTP push or what? If a file can be written, or data sent to a TCP server running on the host machine, that would work.

I have "pretty good familiarity" with Tox, but I've not entirely dissected it yet. I know the math (up until the associative property - that's like a year worth of math to understand I'm told), I don't understand the NAT traversal (yet) (although I know somebody that has a GREAT deal of experience with this), but I think it's secure. The necessary code is simple enough, I'll just make it public. You know HTML bullshit, I know code bullshit.

And it's funny, I trust a binary FAR more than I trust a website. I can monitor what it does. I can detect what it does - under Linux anyhow, and that's my OS of choice.

In any case, the code can run on, say, this site. Get some tox client running, I'll show you a replacement for SFTP. I have a little system running for file transfers but I have like ZERO idea how to connect that to a web-page.

Buy a raspberry pi. I'll make a script that does all the necessary installation and compilation. As an alternative, use a VM - or you can just use my machine if you like. I'm serious, before I die, I need to fix the shit our generation did. IPFS might be a better solution, but I don't know much about it yet.

richwicks says

I can build a client, if you can build access to it.

Is the protocol well-known? If so, building a web interface shouldn't be too hard.

richwicks says

So, I notice on this site, if I have have two webpages open, and post in one web browser, my post will appear in the other web browser - the second I post. How do you do this? Is this an HTTP push or what?

Websockets. All browsers now have the ability to leave a tcp connection to the server open, after which either server or client can send data.

richwicks says

I trust a binary FAR more than I trust a website.

I don't trust websites either. But I basically trust browsers (as long as I have a firewall that can prevent them from "phoning home" with extra data about me).

I don't trust other binaries at all, especially not on phones, which are extremely closed and proprietary environments.

Patrick says

Websockets. All browsers now have the ability to leave a tcp connection to the server open, after which either server or client can send data.

Is this webserver (the one were you're reading this on) running Apache or Tomcat? I'll set it up. Setting up the backend doesn't seem to be described anywhere for websockets. You point me to a place on how to setup the BACKEND of a webserver for webclients, and I'll do the work to setup a platform.

Remember - I'm working on PRIVATE internet. A raspberry pi has more than enough horse power and computing power to do trivial stuff like sharing email or voice messages.

Patrick says

I don't trust other binaries at all, especially not on phones, which are extremely closed and proprietary environments.

And this is why I have a Linux phone. CLEARLY a developmental system at this point, but the day is coming.

Companies have stabbed the country in the back, and I can feel the revolt coming. Gamestop was just a precursor.

I'll get a tox client written, all I need then is a front end that can pass data to and from it. Running this at home would require people to open port 80 and 443 (something few people know how to do), but running it at a consolidated website is easy as well.

I'll not bother to implement voice or file sharing - I MIGHT do groups.

If you know C I can explain the full code so you can understand it. It's actually pretty simple, it's a bunch of call backs essentially. I'll be doing it in C++, but it's mostly really just C - I'm using C++ because of the convenience of classes and vectors/strings prevent buffer overflows.

If you don't know C++ I can explain that. I'm not going to do fancy shit, the idea of a class is that data structures are attached to group of functions that belong to that data class. That's object oriented coding in a nutshell. If you know Java, I think you'll easily be able to understand it, but I hate Java because EVERY damned thing is a class.

I think I'm going to learn a bunch of new languages over the next few months. Goddamned tired of working with what I know. Python, Java, Javascript, HTML5. Sick of the embedded space.

richwicks says

Is this webserver (the one were you're reading this on) running Apache or Tomcat?

Neither, Nginx as a front end for node.js.

richwicks says

Setting up the backend doesn't seem to be described anywhere for websockets.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/WebSockets_API/Writing_WebSocket_servers

I was a C programmer decades ago now, but never did C++.

Patrick says

richwicks says

Is this webserver (the one were you're reading this on) running Apache or Tomcat?

Neither, Nginx as a front end for node.js.

richwicks says

Setting up the backend doesn't seem to be described anywhere for websockets.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/WebSockets_API/Writing_WebSocket_servers

This is front end. How does the SERVER get setup? This seems to be a black art, but I can see you've done it.

I run apache - here's my (opaque) apache webserver - https://samoyed.dynu.net - what modules do I need to enable?

As I understand it ws://something opens a server connection, and the packets are forwarded locally on 127.0.0.1 to a server - but I don't know what module to enable or how it's enabled. I sort of do, so I probably shouldn't bother you, but you've done it and I've not.

I'll setup a VM to do this and see what is required, then move it to a standalone machine when I've done it correctly. Everything I've read is websockets are "experimental" in Apache. Is this website running on Apache or something else? Me good engineer, me can set it up! Me need information!

I just wanted to eliminate guesswork and get the setup from somebody that has done it before. I don't have just one variable, I have two. I can setup a BS client, but if the server isn't properly configured, I don't know which side is failing.

There's a good example of a python websever for the pi - I guess I ought to start with that, once that is stable, try to setup apache, then I only have one variable.

Patrick says

I was a C programmer decades ago now, but never did C++.

C++ has a lot of useless bullshit in it. It's got a lot of powerful abstraction tools, and a lot of stupid ideas that people shouldn't use. Just like C!

It's an overly complicated language with worthless constraints you can impose. For example, a const method function forbids you from modifying the class variables. A static method in a class is a global function that can't make use of member variables. For the first, just don't fuck with the class members, for the second, make a global function. These aren't really useful constructs in the language.

If they did this right, by default all class methods would be static by default unless you explicitly say they aren't, and static methods should just be global functions not defined by the class structure. They tried too hard not to break compatibility with C. C was made in the 1970s. It's a great low level language, but C++ should have been strongly typed, and compatible with minor modifications:

#extern "C"
#end "C"

They could have just done that. It's an improved language but it has all the faults of the original C language and some faults on top of that.

Websocket is nothing more but an upgraded http connection that is kept open and bidirectional after the upgrade command and open event. Http2 and SSE work well with this as well. Here's a good article

https://blog.sessionstack.com/how-javascript-works-deep-dive-into-websockets-and-http-2-with-sse-how-to-pick-the-right-path-584e6b8e3bf7