patrick.net

theoakman says

I'm certain the dollar and other fiats fall off a cliff and I'm well prepared either way.

theoakman says

I hold Bitcoin as an insurance policy on top of it. The market has clearly opted to Bitcoin as a store of value over the past 5 years, volatility aside.

The question no one can answer. Dollar goes to shit. Who is going to buy your BTC or Ethereum? I'm not. No one I know will. No one wants it outside of speculation, which is fine. You can make money off it while things are normal.

There's a reason 2A is so important. It was never about protection of property or militias. It was about control. A $800 handgun WILL appreciate over time. Provides protection. And you can shoot your way to feeding yourself. The left wants control. Why do you think every cycle gun control is brought up? And even if the guns don't appreciate, you can shoot things to stay alive. Bitcoin, gold, silver, etc., none of that will do shit for you at the end of the day.

1 - Freedom of speech like this site. 2 - Give me a damn gun. If the left is successful in toppling either, your digital tokens and metals are work dick. 100% true. They're on a god damn war path to destroy the two most fundament ideologies of America. I'd have an arsenal and ammo before even touching crypto or metals. Our military is not large enough to do a citizen taken over. So it's you against your neighbors. You either work together or you kill them. It's pretty black and white when shit hits the fan.

The whole premise of Digital Blockchain currency is way off when it comes to classic Dutch economics.
It is nothing more than a bubble, pure and simple and I'm going to tell you why.

In classic economics your dollar is self contained monetary unit, valued in currency that it is.

When you put your money in the bank, you get interest(Ideally), and that interest is compounded in Dollar value. Each of your dollars are a self contained unit pegged to the value of the dollar. If you take that money and put it into a house, worth $300K, your house is worth 300K units of the money used to purchase it. When that asset deflates, you don't have 300K units worth less. You have $150K units, and the only way to get 300K back is if the asset doubles in value.

That is not what happens with digital currency, and why the long run investment is a fools errand.

You buy 1,000 digital coins, valued at .08 cents, that's $80. From then on, you're counting the value of 1,000 coins, not tracking the $80.
So as your digital currency inflates ,its the money other people are putting in. You only brought $80's to the table. But your tracking 1000 units. When that coin goes from .08 to $1.00 each. Many will want to pull out while they are ahead, leaving everyone else holding the bag. Also some digital coins will add coins to your portfolio when Coins are sold, adding to your unit count. You still are on the hook for $80, but now you may have well over a 1000 coins, worth what ever they are worth.
It's like having interest that is compounded by the minute, rather than at a month end statement.
It's a dangerous game, while it may seem like a sensible thing to do. If everyone jumped in and participated, it would crash the value and it would all be worthless other than the hard money put into it.
Which also brings the other point. You're tracking units separate from the money you put in it, but you get money out based on the number of units you have.
IT's like an asset or baseball cards. But really it's just a Ponzi scheme on a grand scale.
If everybody had a Babe Ruth rookie baseball card, then they would all be worthless.

Tenpoundbass says

IT's like an asset or baseball cards.

baseball cards aren't programmable.

I'm rooting for Patcoin!

WookieMan says

The question no one can answer. Dollar goes to shit. Who is going to buy your BTC or Ethereum? I'm not. No one I know will. No one wants it outside of speculation, which is fine. You can make money off it while things are normal.

There's a reason 2A is so important. It was never about protection of property or militias. It was about control. A $800 handgun WILL appreciate over time. Provides protection. And you can shoot your way to feeding yourself. The left wants control. Why do you think every cycle gun control is brought up? And even if the guns don't appreciate, you can shoot things to stay alive. Bitcoin, gold, silver, etc., none of that will do shit for you at the end of the day.

Currency collapses don't devolve into mad max. It just wipes people's debts and savings and is a reset button to the economy. But third world countries will see their currencies collapse first, so they'll be the beta.

Hircus,
I don't have a significant % of my net worth in FLSW.
There are some reasons.
1. I don't have "new money" coming in presently.
2. A large % of my funds and stocks are in non-retirement accounts. Changing these is not practical.

I plan on adding a few bucks to FLSW as soon as my shitty WFC gets a little bit higher.
I'm then dumping all of my WFC shares.
I'll probably buy 10 grand or so of FLSW.
Edit: I will add 100 bucks per month for a few years, and add any new money I get a hold of.
I’m going to make a few grand with my GME gamble, so a grand or 2 will go to FLSW.

theoakman says

The market has clearly opted to Bitcoin as a store of value over the past 5 years, volatility aside.

You can't have it both ways. Volatility means it is not a good store of value. If I bought a bitcoin for $60k I would not be able to get my $60k back, at least not right away.

Remember, the miners consume the capital input. There is no store of value.

Be honest, you bought some crypto for the same reason I occasionally play the lotto. It's gambling.

theoakman says

Currency collapses don't devolve into mad max. It just wipes people's debts and savings and is a reset button to the economy. But third world countries will see their currencies collapse first, so they'll be the beta.

Mostly true, but take a look at Weimer Germany, or Venezuela today, things can get pretty nasty. And the bigger the bubble, the nastier the collapse. How big is the US debt bubble? Unprecedented, and this is directly from the mouths of central bankers themselves. So no need for beta's, just look around, or study history.

And for the(hopefully) few months when trade and transport grinds to a halt, you'll need more than digital 1's and 0's to trade for necessities.

What about goldbacks if they came down on the price

Stocks usually compensate for inflation.

The hazard there is that the Fed will raise interest rates to counter inflation, and higher rates are bad for stocks as people move to bonds for those higher rates.

But the stocks are at least backed by a real thing: a business which is supposed to produce profits. After interest rates go back down, they should go back up about in proportion.

NuttBoxer says

ble, the nastier the collapse. How big is the US debt bubble? Unprecedented, and this is directly from the mouths of central bankers themselves. So no need for beta's, just look around, or study history.

I have much more than bitcoin/ethereum. I own land, actively farm it. To put it in perspective, I have 30 fruit trees and 10 large raised bed gardens. I'm locked in at 2.5% on 250k remaining debt. I have solar on my home. I own gold. I own silver. I own dividend paying stocks. I own broad market ETFs. And I own foreign stock ETFs in modernized Asian countries like Taiwan, Singapore, and Japan. These things are a small piece of my insurance policy, at best, it might become 5%.

theoakman says

These things are a small piece of my insurance policy, at best, it might become 5%.

I hear ya, but I think the fruit trees are a better investment.

I never gambled more than a couple hundred at a time.

Zak says

The physical can be stored, audited, insured, and accessed with a proper digitally signed token. Tokens can be exchanged across borders instantly. There would be a transaction fee, and potentially a storage fee. The crypto currency could provide verification that the storage facility is insured.

Sounds like https://kinesis.money/money/

Onvacation says

If you don't hold it you don't own it.

This is why I don't hold Kenisis, and I ever so slightly distrust my PSLV holdings

So here's a crazy question.
What if there's a run on the banks, there's hyper inflation, the dollar becomes worthless or for what ever reason, the money stops flowing?
What will digital currency be worth then? If you answered that question honestly, then you've assured yourself, they are nothing more than tokens in an video game, in hopes to convert them into real US dollars. You're playing an elaborate Coin Pusher.

Tenpoundbass says

What will digital currency be worth

Whatever value people place in it.
Its worthless garbage, really.
Everyone and their brother can mint a bajillion cryptocoins
Its worse than fiat in that regard...

If it gets shitty, can you eat it? or trade it for food?
I expect an epic dismissal of the dollar
Then crypto
and falling back to precious metals

I'm buying silver, only because I'm too poor to own gold

To add to that, the Dollar fluctuates what it is worth based on the GDP. A digital coin value does not account for the dollar fluctuation.
So if a digital coin has a great run when the dollar is strong. Then when the Dollar gets weak and loses 25% to 50% of it's value. Coin Bulls say digital currency will go through the roof. I say it would also lose 50% of the total when all was factored in. People would be buying in, while the value would be in free fall.

ThatGuy says

I'm buying silver, only because I'm too poor to own gold

I haven't even considered it because I've heard one can't get delivery. Or can they?

Check prices at
https://online.kitco.com/silver?utm_source=patrick.net&utm_medium=patrick.net&utm_content=submenu-buy-silver&utm_campaign=patrick.net
Then call local coin/gold/silver dealers and pawn shops. The shops price should be around kitcos. If significantly more; pass. If significantly less you MIGHT have a bargain.

If everybody bought silver instead of crypto they would truly have a store of value but silver can't be programmed or stored on a flashdrive.

It looks like Kitco will sell you a 63 pound (thousand ounce) bar for $30,950 and send it to you right away.
https://online.kitco.com/buy/1008/1000-oz-Silver-Good-Delivery-List-Bar-999-1008

Smaller sizes carry higher premiums.

I'd probably get the silver eagles. Bars are hard to spend during cannibal anarchy but doable.

just_passing_through says

I'd probably get the silver eagles

WOW! $42 a piece when you buy 500!

You can still buy a one ounce queen for $34.50

theoakman says

I have much more than bitcoin/ethereum. I own land, actively farm it. To put it in perspective, I have 30 fruit trees and 10 large raised bed gardens. I'm locked in at 2.5% on 250k remaining debt. I have solar on my home. I own gold. I own silver. I own dividend paying stocks. I own broad market ETFs. And I own foreign stock ETFs in modernized Asian countries like Taiwan, Singapore, and Japan. These things are a small piece of my insurance policy, at best, it might become 5%.

You left out an important piece, do you own guns? And how far are you from the nearest city?

just_passing_through says

I'd probably get the silver eagles. Bars are hard to spend during cannibal anarchy but doable.

DO NOT buy Eagles right now. Premium is too high. Better to buy silver rounds. At the top, or in a crises, no one gives a shit about what coins you have, just how much silver is in them.

bullionvault.com

Recommended by iTulip back in the day.

Bear in mind, any bullion transactions conducted outside the USA is subject to FATCA reporting requirements. Any profits are subject to 30% collectibles tax.

NuttBoxer says

DO NOT buy Eagles right now. Premium is too high. Better to buy silver rounds. At the top, or in a crises, no one gives a shit about what coins you have, just how much silver is in them.

I'm not. That's just what I'd buy in an ideal situation. That way if no anarchy they trade well and if anarchy I have some silver. I have a pal who started stacking silver 3 years ago. I probably should have purchased back then.

I'll tell ya what else I'm not going to do: drive around / call around to coin dealers an pawn shops.

Not right now when everyone and their mother is doing it.

edit: gold was a great buy a few years ago as well.

Onvacation says

WOW! $42 a piece when you buy 500!

Lol yeah, I noticed that. From the dates and descriptions, I didn't realize silver was being minted by US and Canada this century. I have some eagles and other somewhat large silver dollars my grandparents gave me as a kid. They would stick them in those plastic Easter egg hunt eggs. I got some $2 bills that way as well.

Enough silver to eat for a few days but not enough to get by on.

just_passing_through says

Enough silver to eat for a few days but not enough to get by on.

Having a community of people you can depend on is maybe the most important part of survival. But silver/gold, guns, ammo, rations, and a water filter certainly don't hurt.

clambo says

I plan on adding a few bucks to FLSW as soon as my shitty WFC gets a little bit higher.

I was surprised to see FLSW didn't go down on the news of the G7 deal to have a 15% minimum tax, which might take some of the competitiveness away from the swiss tax haven.
Maybe the market expects the swiss to make other compensatory adjustments that make it a new positive for business, just in other ways.


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/switzerland-must-adjust-remain-business-144428861.html