patrick.net

Bitcoin says

Guys, dont engage with Richwicks and onvacation.

I like onvacation and think his matchbox car is a super cool investment. I don't dislike Richwicks.

Onvacation says

Where did I get it wrong?

Bitcoin has no assets. All incoming money is consumed by the miners. The only way to get money out is finding a bigger fool.

Can any of you crypto pushers point out the errors in my statement above?

Not expecting any cogent answers

Bitcoin has UTILITY; much more so than the legacy financial system that's (a small part) of where it's value comes from. You just need to study up on it. If you hate it that's okay, if I were 75 or older I'd probably hate it too.

Misc says

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-25/bitcoin-s-price-tumble-tests-resilience-of-crypto-miners?srnd=premium&source=patrick.net

So this is the sort of article that pisses me off / cost me a lot of money if I hadn't fallen for this sort of FUD in the past. Read to the end though and it'll say no big deal basically. Articles have been softening over the past 1.5 years because the owners have started taking positions.

The reason it's a bullshit article is that bitcorn adapts. Yes, it's smart. When the hash rate goes down the mining difficulty decreases. That's what they left out. We saw the hash rate get cut in half last year when the miners were kicked out of China. No fucking big deal.

KgK one says

Why coinbase charges so much for transactions 2-3%
Are these coat same at other trading places

It's not. Coinbase is expensive but it's 0.5%. Here is a table vs. coinbase pro where you can see the rates if you want to use their platform:

https://www.investopedia.com/coinbase-vs-coinbase-pro-5120704?source=patrick.net

Yes, there are others, prices vary. Basically what @Hircus said....

Bd6r says

that is a very specific question and it would be good for @FJB to answer it. We would see how long does a REAL transaction takes place

I am neither for or against Bitcoin. My take is that it is probably better to trust a number in a Russian hacker's computer aka Bitcoin than a number in Federal reserve computer aka USD

@Bd6r I'm not going to give him specific details of my trades. Why should I when I gave him a link to the white paper on the lightning network. He being an engineer I assumed he could read it but he ignored it and kept posting BS.

In short, it's possible to send millions of dollars of bitcoin across the world now at the speed of light for pennies. It's not just a paper it's operational now. Here is their website:

https://lightning.network/?source=patrick.net

You know what this is? It's a Western Union killer in the short run but a Visa and Mastercard killer in the long run. It'll kill SWIFT too at some point I'm certain. SWIFT is a patchwork of very old mainframes that are kludged together. SWIFT was hacked recently and billions were stolen. In El Salvador alone this has the potential to take 400MM from Western Union. They basically rip off people who send remittances back home, keeping them poor:

https://www.coinspeaker.com/chivo-western-union-moneygram/?source=patrick.net

The chivo wallet uses the lightning network...

software is eating the world. it's only recently started to chow down on finance.

FJB says

I like onvacation and think his matchbox car is a super cool investment.

Make him an offer. He hopes for 100k for his toy car :D

Its not about liking or not liking.....he doesnt even get the basics. He actually posted that the last Bitcoin will be mined in 2040 (instead of 2140). He doesnt believe in limited supply or smart money. He doesnt believe a crypto currency can have a marketcap. The list goes on and on. Its a total waste of time talking with him about crypto. There is zero progress. He just hates it and refuses to learn.... Too old is my guess.

And Richwicks.... Just too far down the rabbit hole.

OV has me on ignore....show him this chart and he freaks :D

Cash says

The problem with the haters here they grabbed the easy way out and decided w/o any 'real working knowledge of crypto" because that takes effort, decided they
don't like crypto no matter what. So now all that toxic pride is in print and none have the balls or humility to look into the facts and recant their obvious ignorance.

The advice I have for them is to get a clue or be ready to eat the biggest shit sandwich they have ever seen ;)

Serious question... why do you care if there are bitcoin haters? If you like bitcoin, by all means buy some...if not, then don't. When it goes up in value, enjoy it...no need to brag about it. I don't think that the lives of those that choose not to buy will be destroyed. Seems like lots of people just argue just to argue.

FJB says

That's what they left out. We saw the hash rate get cut in half last year when the miners were kicked out of China. No fucking big deal.

The scam must go on!

@OnVacaction how about some REAL arguments/questions so maybe someone more enlightened than myself can learn me something. Here are mine:

1. Bitcorn was pretty uncorrelated to the stock market but over the past few years it's clearly correlated with tech stocks.

In the short run I expect it to take a nose dive. I'm actually hoping for this so I can buy more and so that most of the shit coins are flushed out like the dot com bust.

2. There is a limited supply and dunces have lost their keys! A whole LOT of keys have been lost. Because it's completely different than all of the other cryptos, and those keys can't be recovered, WTF happens if that keeps happening?

My guess is that votes will be taken and some sort of remedy will ensue in the software. For instance there was a new version release late last year that allows for smart contracts, allowing it to compete with the newer coins but what do I know... It was voted upon and accepted.

3. Stable coins. The SEC is going after stable coins which are dodgy unregulated securities basically. What is going to happen?

Tether is an example. WTF do they REALLY have the allows them to be stable. You might think, that's not bitcorn but they are a huge huge factor when it comes to liquidity in the entire crypto market. What happens if tether and other stable coins go down? Will the market freeze up and crash to near zero? I don't know!

Onvacation says

The scam must go on!

LOLZ..

Sheeeit....

This is richwicks in teh future:

komputodo says

Seems like lots of people just argue just to argue.

Yup. That's why I'm here. To correct errors on the internet by pointing out the cognitive dissonance of erroneous thinking.

It's fun.

FJB says

how about some REAL arguments/questions

You have yet to refute my previous arguments or answer my previous questions.

And I don't really expect you to.

Onvacation says

You have yet to refute my previous arguments or answer my previous questions.

And I don't really expect you to.

Well... I feel that I did.

Either way, have fun with your inflationary fiat and lack of education and the CBDC that will inevitably replace it.

Onvacation says

It's fun.

Yes it is lol

Lol, arsehose...

FJB says

Well... I feel that I did.

Either way, have fun with your inflationary fiat and lack of education and the CBDC that will inevitably replace it.

Nope, just personal attack.

@fjb

Just one question, how do you make money investing in bitcoin without a greater fool paying more than you did?

Still waiting for a cogent answer, but not expecting one.

Onvacation says

You have yet to refute my previous arguments or answer my previous questions.

And I don't really expect you to.

Yes a did!

Onvacation says

without a greater fool

dispute the premise!

Onvacation says

Nope, just personal attack.

Not personal, just poking fun at you because clearly you're just messing with me at this point as well. You got me though!

FJB says

you're just messing with me

No, I'm just pointing out that you don't understand Blockchain and won't answer questions.

Bitcoin is a scam and anyone who plays without knowing that is a rube.

FJB says

Onvacation says

without a greater fool

dispute the premise!

If not the greater fool, how do you make money from crypto?

None of the crypto pushers have answered this question.

I have some BTC that I paid $64,000 for.
Please buy it from me.
You will not regret it.
I am only selling it because I have a girlfriend who doesn’t “understand crypto” and I don’t want her to get pissed off at “daddy”.
Thank you for your understanding.

clambo says

I have some BTC that I paid $64,000 for.
Please buy it from me.

Nah, HODL and sell in the future for 150-200k. Its a great inflation hedge!

Onvacation says

No, I'm just pointing out that you don't understand Blockchain and won't answer questions.

Sure I do if they aren't personal or too broad to answer succinctly. I did recommend you look up a utube video on the subject if you're interested - there are many, some with programming examples. If you narrow down your question I'll do my best to answer if I can.

Generally, nobody who understands block chains would say, "you don't understand Blockchain". They'd say, "What do you know about blockchains" - plural or specify a particular blockchain because there are many. Seems you don't know anything about them.

What do you know about the internal workings / plumbing of the US financial system?

Onvacation says

If not the greater fool, how do you make money from crypto?

None of the crypto pushers have answered this question.

I showed a specific example above how El Salvadorians make (by transverse property of equality) 400MM / year. It's not what you make it's what you keep. But there are other ways to just directly make money. For instance you can stake your coins on a platform to provide liquidity and get paid a portion of the fees. That's just a single example - there are many others. It's not my job to educate you.

How do you make money from government fiat?

clambo says

I have some BTC that I paid $64,000 for.

Sell me a call option for $200 that expires in 2 years and it's a deal.

Meanwhile I have one share of Amazon stock I bought at 3676 wanna buy it?

FJB says

Onvacation says

No, I'm just pointing out that you don't understand Blockchain and won't answer questions.

Sure I do if they aren't personal or too broad to answer succinctly. I did recommend you look up a utube video on the subject if you're interested - there are many, some with programming examples. If you narrow down your question I'll do my best to answer if I can.

Generally, nobody who understands block chains would say, "you don't understand Blockchain". They'd say, "What do you know about blockchains" - plural or specify a particular blockchain because there are many. Seems you don't know anything about them.

What do you know about the internal workings / plumbing of the US financial system?

No 1 blinder then those who choose to be blind. They jumped on the haters wagon and to prideful to educate and jump off into the reality of the 4th industrial revolution...
When eventually they have to eat that big fat shit sandwich they might consider pouring lots of hot sauce on top and swallowing it whole and not to nibble...

If they invest right now they have extremely good odds/risk of being able to sell BTC @ 89k - 104k this year.2022

Cash says

If they invest right now they have extremely good odds/risk of being able to sell BTC @ 89k - 104k this year.2022

I'm not so sure and am actually hoping it crashes hard to give me a chance to buy a ton more. I think the crypto-winter cycles related to bitcorn halving events are history though. The halving going forward is too small and too many institutional players are getting involved.

Onvacation says

None of the crypto pushers have answered this question.

I'm not a crypto pusher I've stated above it's okay to hate it. My argument is that bitcoin in particular is not a scam and its not a pyramid scheme. That is all...

I think threads like this are started from one of two base emotions: fear, envy or both.

I understand the fear part, in particular for older folks. Change is scary.

The envy though (if so) is super lame. Yeah, tons of kids became crypto millionaires. Good for them! I've never been envious of anyone. If I see someone make out it just makes me want to work harder to get the same. It literally makes me happy to see people doing well or better than myself.

On the other hand I have been jealous plenty of times (different from envy) when my girlfriend at the time was getting attention from other guys and enjoying it but that's about it and that's justifiably moral: Guy should be jealous.

Otherwise, nobody would care to post a thread like this. Then again, it's just the title that is 'bitcoin misinfo' the text just below the post title doesn't have anything to do with bitcorn.

Cash says

If they invest right now they have extremely good odds/risk of being able to sell BTC @ 89k - 104k this year.2022

To a bigger fool.

Meanwhile vast amounts of energy used by the miners has to be paid for.

FJB says

jealous.

Otherwise, nobody would care to post a thread like this.

Just warning the fools you would like to take advantage of when you sell your coins (for "fiat" ) someday.

Or are you one of those HODLers?

Onvacation says

Meanwhile vast amounts of energy used by the miners has to be paid for.

It's actually not that much and a lot of it is wasted energy. You'd be surprised how much free energy is not used. It's much less than the legacy finance system by a long shot.

Onvacation says

Just warning the fools you would like to take advantage of when you sell your coins (for "fiat" ) someday.

What's to say I don't buy a house or tesla?

Onvacation says

Or are you one of those HODLers?

I made some in trading and yes do hold a few tiny positions that are underwater at the moment.

FJB says

What's to say I don't buy a house or tesla?

Is that your plan?

FJB says

Onvacation says

Or are you one of those HODLers?

I made some in trading and yes do hold a few tiny positions that are underwater at the moment.

What is the ultimate goal of HODLing?

I've heard some say they HODL for the day when Bitcoin becomes THE currency. What is your rationale for HODLing?

richwicks says

FJB says

FJB says

@richwicks in essence what you said would be equivalent to saying TCP/IP has no real value. It just moves packets around, you can't make money off of it, it's a scam - back in the day.

Don't strawman me. You know you are engaging in a logical fallacy, but you do it anyhow.

The problem with a distributed database is that you need to have all machines on at all times, you need to have timely connections to them, and you have to have fast indexing to access them.

Even with bit-torrent, it takes 30 seconds or so before the connection(s) are made. Once it gets going, provided with enough peers, you hit saturation of bandwidth. These are minimal transactions, so it's 30 seconds just to ESTABLISH a connection, and then you're on a priority list.

Distributed databases are great f...

Be careful about centralization... remember Napster?
In the crypto world... Cryptsy... Cryptopia,, et.al... but I understand.. both of the former are no longer