patrick.net

Read some of the sources I've posted on this. Now that I've told you about it, you have a moral responsibility to investigate if it's true. Willful ignorance is not an excuse. But it does mean you're a terrible person... if you fail to investigate.

lol, who cares about altruism or corruption.

Russia is invading a country just because their madman leader likes to have this country as part of his falling empire.
The russian people dont want this war and the Ukrainians want their freedom and live in peace.

one more time....this isnt about altruism or corruption. This is about killing innocent children, women, men. Putin is a mass murder and needs to be assassinated.

NuttBoxer says

Read some of the sources I've posted on this. Now that I've told you about it, you have a moral responsibility to investigate if it's true. Willful ignorance is not an excuse. But it does mean you're a terrible person... if you fail to investigate.

FYI - I've been following the situation in Ukraine since 2014. I probably forgot more about it than you'll ever learn. So let's not talk here about "moral responsibility".

There is fog of war. But then, sometimes there's a rare occasion in which facts are clear and can be interpreted to arrive to unambiguous conclusion. One such event was MH-17. The way in which Russia handled it - creating dozens of fakes, flooding infospace and clinging on to each one of those fakes, demanding debunks for those fakes just to buy time, hiring obvious trolls to do it's bidding, etc, etc, etc - it made it clear to me what kind of a player this is and what it's sources are worth.

Then I listened to some of the internal Russian propaganda. As someone who was able to dissect and see through anti-Trump propaganda, I say this: Russian internal propaganda is on a different level altogether.

Then I noticed that some of that Russian propaganda makes it's way into US sources. Some easily debunk-able, yet persuasive. Some intermixed with truth to make it harder to debunk. Soon enough I reached "stack overflow" and stopped following.

And now there's a board contributor who recommends that I read their selection of materials on the subject. Because "moral responsibility" and because I'm a horrible person otherwise.

I say - my refusal to rile through sewage is no reflection on my moral character.

Save_Ukraine says

lol, who cares about altruism or corruption.

Not you apparently.

Save_Ukraine says

This is about killing innocent children, women, men.

Wait, now you do? But only if they're ethnic Ukrainian's? Because that's been happening to Ethnic Russians in Donbas for eight years. If my assumption here is true, what would that make you? Racist wouldn't really begin to cover it.

If You Believe Somebody Believes Ukraine is Some Altruistic Utopia, You Might Have Mass Psychosis

mostly reader says

There is fog of war. But then, sometimes there's a rare occasion in which facts are clear and can be interpreted to arrive to unambiguous conclusion. One such event was MH-17. The way in which Russia handled it - creating dozens of fakes, flooding infospace and clinging on to each one of those fakes, demanding debunks for those fakes just to buy time, hiring obvious trolls to do it's bidding, etc, etc, etc - it made it clear to me what kind of a player this is and what it's sources are worth.

Now do Ghost of Kiev, Snake Island, etc.

Ukraine has shot down planes before by accident prior to MH17.

Everything about "Drunken Eastern Europeans" applies to Ukraine as much as it does Russia, with the added problems of corruption, low pay (poorer then Russia), etc.

Save_Ukraine says

Russia is invading a country just because their madman leader likes to have this country as part of his falling empire.

That's a complete shit Fox-MSNBC take. It's about realpolitik and not having a hostile neighbor on your ass.

We wouldn't tolerate Chinese Bases in Canada for a second, even if The Liberal Party won a 90% majority and backed it with an 85% "Yes to China" Referendum. At that point, we'd say "Blame Canada, it's not even a real country anyway" and overthrow that government by hook or by crook or otherwise and fuck democracy - correctly.

Despite UK/French Propaganda, not only was Kaiser's Germany a Limited Monarchical Republic, every single German Man could vote. That wouldn't happen in the UK until after the war, when everybody was allowed to vote (big mistake, voting should be tied to at least modest property/income and restricted to men, widows, and veterans only)

The Ukrainians have generally voted for pro-neutrality candidates except the two times they had a Coup of the Elected Government, the last of which pulled the Neutrality Clause of their Constitution.

mostly reader says

FYI - I've been following the situation in Ukraine since 2014. I probably forgot more about it than you'll ever learn.

So have I, on the wrong side initially thanks to CIA propaganda. I was exposed to the strong Nazi influence over what was going on back then, but like I said, didn't really understand what was happening.

See I just admitted a mistake, you should try that sometime. Or are you always right?

mostly reader says

because I'm a horrible person otherwise.

What do you call someone who ignores/self-censors when they know the view presented will prove that they're supporting Nazi extremists, who have committed, or at least attempted to commit genocide. Sounds like a pretty shitty person to me.

And that's who you are right now. You fell for the wrong narrative and refuse to admit your mistake. You're the same as the covidites, and the BLM'ers before that. But instead of just being racist, or wanting to force people to take shots, you support Nazi's who have killed little kids. That's despicable. And yes, I intend this to be personal, because you deserve it.

NuttBoxer says

What do you call someone who ignores/self-censors when they know the view presented will prove that they're supporting Nazi extremists, who have committed, or at least attempted to commit genocide.

I already explained why. You chose to ignore my explanation because you don't like it. I'm not taking seriously someone with only one-directional critical filters. That would be you.

Instead, I will be enjoying seeing the process of Russia becoming China's bitch.

mostly reader says

I already explained why.

I must have missed it. Seriously. The only thing I saw was you trying to say you know more than me, because opinions. And you wouldn't descend with the commoners and read or watch material because, no reasons.

I don't enjoy any of this. I don't take delight in war, regardless of who gets pwned. I've seen too many countries go the way of Iraq, and now we're spreading it to Europe. I don't enjoy the suffering of the Russian people, who never had it good to begin with, or the increased suffering of the Ukrainian's, who are on a path to being a failed state.

But I especially don't enjoy the fact that after two years of most people on this forum not falling for covid, so many of you learned nothing about propaganda, and fell hard, because it catered to your worldview.

And on that last point I HATE when people slander the truth to their own personal ends. It's disgusting, and I'm through putting up with it.

NuttBoxer says

mostly reader says

I already explained why.

I must have missed it. Seriously. The only thing I saw was you trying to say you know more than me, because opinions. And you wouldn't descend with the commoners and read or watch material because, no reasons.

That's my experience with him. He has SECRET INFORMATION and KNOWS MORE THAN ME - but won't demonstrate it, just demands I trust that he knows more than I do. He might very well know more about the situation than I do but he won't share it.

I have decided he's either a useful idiot or an actual propagandist. Assets do monitor forums after all and are largely silent until one of the issues they are instructed to cover comes up.

NuttBoxer says

But I especially don't enjoy the fact that after two years of most people on this forum not falling for covid, so many of you learned nothing about propaganda, and fell hard, because it catered to your worldview.

This has also surprised me. That so many people suddenly think our government and institutions are now credible. They are just as FOS as always and they are especially full of crap when it comes to war.

NuttBoxer says

And on that last point I HATE when people slander the truth to their own personal ends. It's disgusting, and I'm through putting up with it.

It used to aggravate me to no end that propagandists and useful idiots, and generally just dishonest and malicious people existed. Well, they aren't going away, EVER - so don't let them upset you. That's my 2 cents anyhow. You can be aggravated that a disease exists, but in order to eliminate the disease, the cure would be worse. It's part of human nature to deceive.

AmericanKulak says

We wouldn't tolerate Chinese Bases in Canada for a second, even if The Liberal Party won a 90% majority and backed it with an 85% "Yes to China" Referendum.

Of course.

Because China is a Communist Totalitarian regime, who have people in concentration camps, killed 10's of millions of people and have an aggressive and expansionist agenda.

Was Putin so paranoid thinking that NATO was going to invade Moscow through Ukraine or something?

socal2 says

Was Putin so paranoid thinking that NATO was going to invade Moscow through Ukraine or something?

Russia has been invaded twice before through Ukraine.

It's the United States that's always screaming about "Russia bad", and has been for 20 years - even claiming that Putin is trying to control our politicians and leaders. The US has lied about Russia for decades and has slandered them repeatedly. The US have stolen Russian government assets in the United States, humiliated them at every opportunity, and has run a propaganda campaign against them for 2 decades.

Russia isn't paranoid when the United States' leadership is clearly unhinged.

Poso caught this, a Nazi Black Sun from a photo of a Female Soldier in a tweet that NATO hastily took down:

richwicks says

He has SECRET INFORMATION and KNOWS MORE THAN ME - but won't demonstrate it, just demands I trust that he knows more than I do.

Do you ever stop lying? This information is not secret. Go to Al Jazeera, for Pete's sake.

You asked me specifically for more personal footage which would add nothing to the conversation, except that it would come from me (not a reputable resource in your book) Then you'd shun away from the offer that I proposed (that I'd do it if you stay away from this topic). Staying away from the topic would hurt, but you know what? Stupid should hurt.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

He has SECRET INFORMATION and KNOWS MORE THAN ME - but won't demonstrate it, just demands I trust that he knows more than I do.

Do you ever stop lying? This information is not secret. Go to Al Jazeera, for Pete's sake.

You mean Al Gore's news agency?

mostly reader says

You asked me specifically for more personal footage which would add nothing to the conversation, except that it would come from me (not a reputable resource in your book)

I asked you for it because I don't think you have it and also to make it available for public review to ascertain its veracity.

mostly reader says

Then you'd shun away from the offer that I proposed (that I'd do it if you stay away from this topic).

I'll show you this (potential bullshit) but if I do, you can't say anything about it! I could have just lied and made the promise with no intention of keeping it.

mostly reader says

Staying away from the topic would hurt, but you know what? Stupid should hurt.

I notice you add no information on this subject, and all you do is call people stupid for not having your point of view, without explaining why you hold your point of view.

I have repeatedly demonstrated why I do not trust my government with plenty of examples of why nobody should trust their government. The fact that the US overthrew Ukraine for example, is using it to launder money for the Biden family, that they spent 4 years claiming Trump as a "Putin Puppet", that they've been demonizing Russia for 2 solid decades. They're full of shit.

But now they are asking me to trust them about their supposed assessment on Russia, they have demonstrated quite plainly their propensity and willingness to lie in order to manipulate public viewpoints. A viewpoint that you claim to have and the only reasoning you will expose is to tell me to read Al Jazerra - as if this explains your reasoning or thought process. I think that's unreasonable, and I mean that precisely - lacking reason.

You don't express your reasoning. You appeal to ad hominem and ridicule, but you don't explain your thinking. My conclusion is you have no thinking at all.

richwicks says

I asked you for it because I don't think you have it and also to make it available for public review to ascertain its veracity.

Exactly! You admitted it at last. Because you don't think that I have it. Your ask was not genuine, and therefore spanking that you are getting from me is well deserved.

Are you willing to put skin in the game? Any skin? Then accept the offer.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

I asked you for it because I don't think you have it and also to make it available for public review to ascertain its veracity.

Exactly! You admitted it at last. Because you don't think that I have it. Your ask was not genuine, and therefore spanking that you are getting from me is well deserved.

What do you mean "my ask wasn't genuine"?

Here, let me be more plain. I think you're full of crap, have no extraordinary knowledge, and you have nothing to contribute to this conflict in Ukraine. That's my current assessment.

mostly reader says

Are you willing to put skin in the game? Any skin? Then accept the offer.

No. I'm not going to lie to you and falsely claim that somebody I neither respect, much less trust in any way, could ever possibly determine what avenues of thought or discussion I can engage in. I wouldn't agree to that with ANYBODY when I think about it, even somebody I did trust and respect.

richwicks says

What do you mean "my ask wasn't genuine"?

I mean that all this time when you pretended to be helpful - "I'll help you to set up a server", "you should do it to expose Putin", "it's your duty as a human being" - you had something else on your mind. Your MO is quite predictable, I know exactly what would've followed: "Prove that this is Ukraine!", "Prove that Russians did it!", "Prove that it's not doctored!", etc, etc, etc.

Since you seem to have problems with reading comprehension, I'll spell it out: I NEVER CLAIMED that I have extraordinary knowledge. I CLAIMED (and still do) that I have knowledge which is consistent with that in public domain, and personal materials that are consistent with those in public domain.

You, on the other hand, demonstrated (and still do) a degree of cowardice.

Case closed.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

What do you mean "my ask wasn't genuine"?

I mean that all this time when you "pretended to care" - "I'll help you to set up a server", "you should do it to expose Putin", "it's your duty as a human being" - you had something else on your mind.

Yeah, I bent over backwards meeting your stated requests and concerns. You said you were worried about metadata that could identify the location. I do know how to do this with ffmpeg, but @HeadSet had the best solution, to do a live screen capture during playback - that way I COULDN'T make a mistake.

I can help you setup a server, I do have a server, if you really care you should expose criminality within the government, and if you think Putin is causing a humanitarian crisis, instead of sitting on evidence, you really DO have a duty to expose it. Nothing I said was insincere.

mostly reader says

Your MO is quite predictable, I know exactly what would've followed: "Prove that this is Ukraine!", "Prove that Russians did it!", "Prove that it's not doctored!", etc, etc, etc.

No, I would have just published it and asked for input. Other people following this story would have recognized duplicates. I don't have the ability to detect it. There are MANY people that just love to point out "that's bullshit". I'm one of them, but in this area, I'm not knowledgeable enough about the situation.

mostly reader says

Since you seem to have problems with reading comprehension, I'll spell it out: I NEVER CLAIMED that I have extraordinary knowledge. I CLAIMED (and still do) that I have knowledge which is consistent with that in public domain.

Again, I have demonstrated that my government regularly lies, has been antagonizing Russia, and as a result cannot be trusted. In the last 20 years, there hasn't been a single time in the area of foreign policy that our government hasn't outright lied about situations and propagandized the public.

From that alone I know they are lying here unless there's been a radical change, and considering the asshole that is "president" was installed by the CIA, the MASTERS of disinformation and bullshit, I think I can dismiss that as a possibility. This is, after all, a government that has locked down the country for 2 years to "flatten the curve". Nothing they say is credible. If they claim that water is wet, you better go check and verify that's true. They have ZERO credibility with me at this point. I'm quite astonished that they have credibility among anybody.

I have a friend in Switzerland who is having a crisis himself, who is just beginning to accept that most of the people he knows and work with, just accept propaganda as fact. I was like "welcome to my world".

mostly reader says

You, on the other hand, demonstrated (and still do) a degree of cowardice.

Again, an ad-hominem attack.

Do you have something to add to the conversation or people's understanding of the situation? Share it. If you don't, you're just voicing your opinion. Without knowing how you form your opinion, how am I supposed to reconsider my thinking?

Here's a video from Al Jazeera: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/8/its-barbaric-kharkiv-residents-devastated-by-russian-bombing

Did it convince you? Unlikely. Do you have any criticism for it, except that it's posted on Al Jazeera? I expect "crickets".
Then, say again, what does my personal material add to the conversation? Legitimacy? Nope. From what you said in the past, it's safe to say that you trust me less then you trust Al Jazeera. What then?

richwicks says

Do you have something to add to the conversation or people's understanding of the situation?

Oh yes. Exposing trolls is valuable for people's understanding of the situation. You throw around statements and accusations, but then run away from a hint of responsibility for being wrong. I quite successfully demonstrated just that.

Factchecking Putin Propaganda: How it started, and how it's going:



Who paid for those labs? The USA, via pre-existing legislation, the Nunn-Lugar Bill of 1991. Who pushed for the funding? Barack Obama, as Senator, 2005.

> AmericanKulak

It look - ahem - interesting, but here's one detail. There's no clear difference between a lab which genuinely works on fighting highly dangerous virus/bacteria vs. one which specializes in bio-warfare. IIRC Obama banned such labs in US, so indeed he also funded those US-controlled abroad.

My filter on reality says that it's a nothingburger. Russia won't be doing anything about it (internet wars don't count)

mostly reader says

It look - ahem - interesting, but here's one detail. There's no clear difference between a lab which genuinely works on fighting highly dangerous virus/bacteria vs. one which specializes in bio-warfare. IIRC Obama banned such labs in US, so indeed he also funded those US-controlled abroad.

My filter on reality says that it's a nothingburger. Russia won't be doing anything about it (internet wars don't count)

Of course. I'm sure Ukraine was the ideal location for a Asian-based Avian Bird Flu lab that was just looking into curing it. Not Thailand or Singapore or Malaysia.

And if Russia took one over and found evidence they were doing "Gain of Function" - the only difference between that and weaponization is the announced intent - the "Factcheckers" would write it off as Putin Fake Fraud Propaganda.

No matter what, we don't have Bad Actors in high places. Can't be.

AmericanKulak says

Save_Ukraine says

Russia is invading a country just because their madman leader likes to have this country as part of his falling empire.

That's a complete shit Fox-MSNBC take. It's about realpolitik and not having a hostile neighbor on your ass.

The Putin propaganda has you fooled. Remember this story:

"In September 1938 Hitler turned his attention to the three million Germans living in part of Czechoslovakia called the Sudetenland. Sudeten Germans began protests and provoked violence from the Czech police. Hitler claimed that 300 Sudeten Germans had been killed. This was not actually the case, but Hitler used it as an excuse to place German troops along the Czech border."

In 1939 Hitler invaded Poland.

Putin is as crazy as Hitler but luckily the Russian's are less capable for several reasons. Thanks to the internet, the propaganda machine isnt working as most people can educate themselves. The Russian people hate this war against innocent children and woman. The Ukraine is like a brother state to Russia with the exception that Ukraine follows western values much closer than the dictator Putin.

Remember when the entirety of Hunter's Laptop was dismissed as Russian Propaganda? As if Putin faked those thousands of emails from scores if not hundreds of correspondents? Hundreds of Wells Fargo transactions to Biden's dozens of pass through LLCs in Delaware and NYS? Despite the partner giving a press conference attesting to the validity of some of those contents?

Putin Propaganda! Fabricated Fiction from Frunze!

> AmericanKulak says
I'll go on record saying that this lab will not affect diplomatic relationships between US and Russia. I'm not 100% sure, but the odds are so good that I'm ok with going on record and not asking for anything in return.

NuttBoxer says

Save_Ukraine says

lol, who cares about altruism or corruption.

Not you apparently.

Save_Ukraine says

This is about killing innocent children, women, men.

Wait, now you do?

Yes, of Course! Cant have a madman like Putin invade a peaceful country that wants to be part of NATO.

Its nice to see that the world unites. I can already see how republicans and democrats align and unite as well. Glad we are no longer buying gas from Russia. Its amazing how quickly things can get done if we fight for the right thing in a bi-partisan way!

Save_Ukraine says

Yes, of Course! Cant have a madman like Putin invade a peaceful country that wants to be part of NATO.

Wants? It never wanted. Only after coups of democratically elected governments did it do anti-Russian shit. In 2004 and 2014. After 2014, the new government that came to power in a coup removed the neutrality clause from the Ukrainian Constitution.

Save_Ukraine says

Its nice to see that the world unites. I can already see how republicans and democrats align and unite as well. Glad we are no longer buying gas from Russia. Its amazing how quickly things can get done if we fight for the right thing in a bi-partisan way!

Nothing will happen. The Europeans are buying Oil and Gas from Russia, so is China. In fact the latter is extending all kinds of help in the form of RMB payments in lieu of dollars, investments in Russian Assets, etc.

We're the only sucker. America: Destroyed by Design.

AmericanKulak says

Nothing will happen

The Europeans are supplying the finest anti-air guns and the Ukrainians are effectively shooting down russian planes and helicopters. The heroic Ukrainians were also supplied with 17,000 Anti-tank weapons. No chance Russia is getting any success. They dont have the moral, the numbers and the equipment to do shit. Sure you can shell refugees - it shows the war crimes of these cowards. This entire conflict draws the US and NATO closer together and will make the world a better place once Putin has been assassinated.

> AmericanKulak

Odds are overwhelming that Russia's future is to be China's bitch. Regardless of the outcome of this war. Sorry.

mostly reader says

Odds are overwhelming that Russia's future is to be China's bitch.

You mean like how Biden is China's bitch now?

AmericanKulak says

Ukraine has shot down planes before by accident prior to MH17.

Oooohhh, this is sooo juicy and I almost missed this.

This is TEXTBOOK, TEXTBOOK Russian propaganda 101. Sure they did. In 2001.

- It was a joint military exercise between Russia and Ukraine
- Russian dispatcher (from Rostov) routed the plane through the zone of the exercise
- Russian operator marked the plane as a valid target
- Ukrainian anti-aircraft crew shot it down.

Then Ukrainians admitted the mistake, paid out compensations (probably not much), and begged for forgiveness.

Russians did none of the above. But now they are blaming MH17 on Ukrainians, despite overwhelming factual evidence to the opposite, because, see, they've done it in 2001.

Is that all? No, that's not all. Someone somewhere actually tries to use the "they've done it in the past" line as an argument.

HeadSet says

mostly reader says

Odds are overwhelming that Russia's future is to be China's bitch.

You mean like how Biden is China's bitch now?

Like "we will use your territory and your resources for whatever we want, including nuclear waste if so we wish, while you run our errands".

mostly reader says

Here's a video from Al Jazeera: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/8/its-barbaric-kharkiv-residents-devastated-by-russian-bombing?source=patrick.net

Sure is. One thing I didn't see was any interviews. No GPS coordinates either, what was this city block? Was it just residential or was it government? They said it was residential. We'll fine out in a few months.

One thing I've learned is you rarely get accurate information right away. Remember Dawit Kelete? I bet you don't. That was just 2 years ago (well, not even quite that), what is going on with him?

Similarly in a year, maybe two, you might at that time find out what actually happened in Kharkiv. You will have forgotten it by then I bet though. I will try to remember it.

mostly reader says

Did it convince you? Unlikely. Do you have any criticism for it, except that it's posted on Al Jazeera? I expect "crickets".

Convince me of what?

All war is pretty awful. I've pointed out several times this war could have been avoided. Zelenskyy should have simply signed some BS agreement that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO for X amount of years and then after X-N years renegotiated with both the EU, NATO, the US, and Russia. That would have pushed it off. Zlenskyy doesn't give a shit about the public any more than Biden gives a fuck about Americans. His job isn't to represent them.

mostly reader says

Then, say again, what does my personal material add to the conversation? Legitimacy? Nope. From what you said in the past, it's safe to say that you trust me less then you trust Al Jazeera. What then?

I used to once trust Al Jazeera but then Gore got involved with it, now I have the same respect for it as I do Fox News, CNN, the BBC, or the NY Times. I quit reading it over a decade ago.

I don't trust you, you shouldn't trust me. Trust is earned. It creeps in slowly, but when that trust is violated, it gallops out of town like a whipped horse. There's nobody in "mainstream media" that deserves any trust at this point. People who look to "established respectable sources" in this day and age of cameras that are the LITERAL size of buttons I think are foolish. I mean, we're the nation that had Yellow Journalism.

For example. there's 10's of thousands of hours of video footage of the January 6th insurrection. If that was made available for public review, it would only take a few weeks, maybe months at the worst, for people to figure out what happened then. It's not released though because our government is lying about what happened. That's only possible explanation. Is Kharkiv lacking cameras? Maybe. That's the game changer. We can record EVERYTHING today. Once it's edited though, it's been edited for a reason, and that's to hide the truth.


mostly reader says

richwicks says

Do you have something to add to the conversation or people's understanding of the situation?

Oh yes. Exposing trolls is valuable for people's understanding of the situation.

Maybe we have a different understanding of what a troll is.

To ME, a troll is a person that purposely says something that they believe is false to get a reaction out of people and stir up an argument. For example, if I were to say "weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq in Kirkuk" and then produce a bunch of photos that purported to show proof of this - just to create an argument. People then would be arguing about the authenticity of the picture, if it was really in Kirkuk, if any sources I listed were legitimate (I could pull some names out of a hat to get some names), etc. They just stir up trouble.

I would argue our "news" media engages in trolling. This increases readership, and as a side benefit creates division among the populace.

mostly reader says

You throw around statements and accusations, but then run away from a hint of responsibility for being wrong. I quite successfully demonstrated just that.

What have I been wrong about?

Look, I don't want to create an argument. I'm not an expert in this area, but I have been watching my nation aggravate Russia for 20 years. I've seen them poke and prod, and anally violate the Bear for years. I'm not surprised at this outcome. Russia has had quite a bit of restraint. The US adult babies wouldn't have put up with this shit for this long.

And I'm not blind to the gross hypocrisy of my government. I mean, they've fucking bombed 7 nations over the last 20 years. I have NO IDEA what POSSIBLE motivation they had to bomb Somalia, but they did. Our propaganda doesn't even give a reason. From the point of view of just the chaos Russia and the United States causes - who is worse, it's quite obvious (to me, perhaps erroneously) that it's the United States and EVEN IF RUSSIA were worse, if they did it the way the US does it, there would be a silver lining. All the wars the US has been in within the last 20 years has been VERY DAMAGING to this nation, if Russia is really a danger and a threat to me, I want them to do things that is damaging to them. What our STUPID FUCKING TRAITORS in out government does, hurts this nation - it hurts me, my friends, my neighbors, my family. The assholes in charge don't even care about this nation, they just care about how much they can steal from it before their criminality, destroys it. They are a 5th column.

I remember when the USSR was in Afghanistan. I was happy to see themselves get destroyed there, despite the lives it cost. I didn't celebrate the death and destruction it caused, I celebrated the destruction it was doing to the USSR, a criminal group of thugs that I celebrated collapsing on December 26, 1991. I was overjoyed to see them collapse DESPITE the chaos that it caused as a result. When my nation collapses, I will also celebrate it. I want to be be free of the parasites for a few weeks, maybe months, or even years.

The US has been shooting themselves in the head - or really US in the head. The assholes that run this nation don't care about the health or welfare of this nation. They are mobsters. They are thugs. But since Americans are so fucking stupid to allow it to happen with little to no resistance, I'm just going to stick around to see the lazy, apathetic, fucks, see what kind of bed that was allowed to be made for them. Not a SINGLE war that has been waged in at LEAST 20 years has benefited the dumb NPC's that have fanatically supported it - the useful idiots, which are many.

RWSGFY says

Nice strawman: nobody ever stated that Ukraine is an "altruistic utopia". Do these even exist IRL?

When you guys won't say a single negative thing about Ukraine, what am I supposed to think? Granted, it's an exaggeration, but Ukraine must have done something special to "earn" this kind of support. We've seen worse atrocities in the Middle East, Africa, China, yet it's Ukraine that gets all the attention, praise, and donations.

I mean if the rational part of your brain isn't screaming there's something wrong here, you've probably per-emptively nuked it.

socal2 says

Was Putin so paranoid thinking that NATO was going to invade Moscow through Ukraine or something?

Said it before. I think he see's Ukraine becoming the start of destabilization along the Russian border al-la Iran in the Middle East.