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36
WookieMan
2023 Mar 7, 9:19am
WookieMan
2023 Mar 7, 9:19am
GreaterNYCDude says
It's not a debate though. Think of it this way. You have a drill. You either know how to use it or not. There are are flat head, phillips, square, regular drill bits, etc. Some people just don't know how to use the damn thing. Is that the drills problem?
People can't blame debt if they don't know how to use it. As I said, 80% of us are dead without debt. Back to the early 1800's. I'll take the debt 10 out of 10 times. Unless you fraudulently obtained said debt you don't have to pay it either and won't go to jail.
There is also a difference between "good debt" and "bad debt" but that's a whol different debate.
It's not a debate though. Think of it this way. You have a drill. You either know how to use it or not. There are are flat head, phillips, square, regular drill bits, etc. Some people just don't know how to use the damn thing. Is that the drills problem?
People can't blame debt if they don't know how to use it. As I said, 80% of us are dead without debt. Back to the early 1800's. I'll take the debt 10 out of 10 times. Unless you fraudulently obtained said debt you don't have to pay it either and won't go to jail.
37
GreaterNYCDude
2023 Mar 7, 11:42am
The problem is lack of training. Most in this country are financially illiterate. Schools don't even teach the basics anymore (balancing a checkbook, interst vs. principal, making a budget, etc)
38
Eric Holder
2023 Mar 7, 11:51am
Eric Holder
2023 Mar 7, 11:51am
GreaterNYCDude says
It's so easy to obtain this information ignorance is not an excuse. It's not exactly rocket science either.
The problem is lack of training. Most in this country are financially illiterate. Schools don't even teach the basics anymore (balancing a checkbook, interst vs. principal, making a budget, etc)
It's so easy to obtain this information ignorance is not an excuse. It's not exactly rocket science either.
39
NuttBoxer
2023 Mar 7, 4:52pm
NuttBoxer
2023 Mar 7, 4:52pm
Eric Holder says
The lingo is intentionally hard to understand because the system relies on deception, greed, and thievery. So agreed, bullshit != rocket science.
It's so easy to obtain this information ignorance is not an excuse. It's not exactly rocket science either.
The lingo is intentionally hard to understand because the system relies on deception, greed, and thievery. So agreed, bullshit != rocket science.
40
WookieMan
2023 Mar 7, 5:11pm
WookieMan
2023 Mar 7, 5:11pm
Eric Holder says
I've told the story before. We bought our house $85k cash. We didn't have it. Not even close at the time. You figure it out. Margin loan from the MIL on her stock and we bought it cash. Refi'd and paid her back and paid $180/mo interest only for 12 months to own the home...
None of it is rocket science. You just were never taught about it in high schools which is probably 50% at best of educated people. 25% got a college degree of substance or finished. Education does not equal intelligence. The more educated, I've found them to be dumber overall. My uncle can't read and probably has $100M in his bank account/investments. Has more land than extremely famous people as neighbors in Desert Mountain in Scottsdale.
Debt and leverage is how you get out of a shit hole life. 100%. You might fuck up. Guess what. You don't have to pay it. That's the beauty of debt. It's tax free too. Get equity in a couple buildings and pay yourself $200k tax free in a cash out refi. It is basic math. Driving a car is probably riskier than debt.
It's so easy to obtain this information ignorance is not an excuse. It's not exactly rocket science either.
I've told the story before. We bought our house $85k cash. We didn't have it. Not even close at the time. You figure it out. Margin loan from the MIL on her stock and we bought it cash. Refi'd and paid her back and paid $180/mo interest only for 12 months to own the home...
None of it is rocket science. You just were never taught about it in high schools which is probably 50% at best of educated people. 25% got a college degree of substance or finished. Education does not equal intelligence. The more educated, I've found them to be dumber overall. My uncle can't read and probably has $100M in his bank account/investments. Has more land than extremely famous people as neighbors in Desert Mountain in Scottsdale.
Debt and leverage is how you get out of a shit hole life. 100%. You might fuck up. Guess what. You don't have to pay it. That's the beauty of debt. It's tax free too. Get equity in a couple buildings and pay yourself $200k tax free in a cash out refi. It is basic math. Driving a car is probably riskier than debt.
41
HeadSet
2023 Mar 7, 5:11pm
HeadSet
2023 Mar 7, 5:11pm
GreaterNYCDude says
I have found that financial illiteracy is not the problem. The issue is the borrower does not care as long as he can get it now. Anyone can multiply the monthly payment amount on a car by the number of payments and see the total cost. The only concern the joker has with a 72 month loan is whether he can be approved for the monthly payment.
Most in this country are financially illiterate.
I have found that financial illiteracy is not the problem. The issue is the borrower does not care as long as he can get it now. Anyone can multiply the monthly payment amount on a car by the number of payments and see the total cost. The only concern the joker has with a 72 month loan is whether he can be approved for the monthly payment.
42
EBGuy
2023 Mar 7, 5:45pm
ECBB said: With high yield savings paying about 4% right now, that's a 1% spread relative to my 3% mortgage.
And that 4% interest income on savings will be taxed at 24% (federal income tax rate) if you and your wife make more than $90k, so it's essentially a wash right now. I say more cash on hand or dollar cost average into an index fund (which will produce some qualified dividends, but most gains will be LTC).
And that 4% interest income on savings will be taxed at 24% (federal income tax rate) if you and your wife make more than $90k, so it's essentially a wash right now. I say more cash on hand or dollar cost average into an index fund (which will produce some qualified dividends, but most gains will be LTC).
43
Bd6r
2023 Mar 7, 8:55pm
Bd6r
2023 Mar 7, 8:55pm
I borrowed 500K at 2.1 pct interest in September 2021 to buy a farm. Due to Bidenflation I am paying it back as slow as possible.
44
Eric Holder
2023 Mar 8, 3:38pm
Eric Holder
2023 Mar 8, 3:38pm
NuttBoxer says
Do you really-really find the lingo unsurmountable?
Eric Holder says
It's so easy to obtain this information ignorance is not an excuse. It's not exactly rocket science either.
The lingo is intentionally hard to understand because the system relies on deception, greed, and thievery. So agreed, bullshit != rocket science.
Do you really-really find the lingo unsurmountable?
45
KgK one
2023 Mar 8, 4:19pm
Rates are high , what assets to buy now. Nothing is coming down. Hosing is coming down few % but barely.
CD n bonds are only choice
CD n bonds are only choice
46
Patrick
2023 Mar 8, 4:22pm
Patrick
2023 Mar 8, 4:22pm
Bd6r says
@Bd6r Damn, if you could borrow at 2.1% and buy US Treasuries at 4.5%, you'd have a perpetual money machine.
I borrowed 500K at 2.1 pct interest in September 2021 to buy a farm. Due to Bidenflation I am paying it back as slow as possible.
@Bd6r Damn, if you could borrow at 2.1% and buy US Treasuries at 4.5%, you'd have a perpetual money machine.
47
GNL
2023 Mar 8, 5:07pm
GNL
2023 Mar 8, 5:07pm
richwicks says
@richwicks @wookieman
A lot of good points are made in this comment. Richwicks is correct in that the system is flawed. Either you use debt to control others or you are controlled by debt. I believe this is the system as it is designed. Default is baked into the cake. How many times has the US defaulted? But then the parasite class continues to get bailouts. This time around (covid) everyone got bailed out. This is total fraud.
WookieMan says
A new building dude. Pay tradesmen that then buy groceries and goods and keep other people employed that then buy more goods. They then build a house or buy a house and the cycle continues.
All you're doing is driving up the cost for everybody else.
Look, I understand the system, I accept it for what it is, but it's going to destroy the country in time. It used to be that land and stock speculation was literally illegal. That was 200 years ago, but can't you see what kind of development that has occured in our civilization just because we got rid of the worst parasites for just 200 years?
You personally have more access to information and travel than the richest man in the world did in 1800. You might live in a smaller home, but you don't have to have servants to feed and groom the horses, to maintain your buggy, to keep stoking the fire in...
@richwicks @wookieman
A lot of good points are made in this comment. Richwicks is correct in that the system is flawed. Either you use debt to control others or you are controlled by debt. I believe this is the system as it is designed. Default is baked into the cake. How many times has the US defaulted? But then the parasite class continues to get bailouts. This time around (covid) everyone got bailed out. This is total fraud.
48
NuttBoxer
2023 Mar 8, 5:50pm
NuttBoxer
2023 Mar 8, 5:50pm
Eric Holder says
If you get deep into "investment" advise, it can sound confusing pretty quickly. But if you remember it's all about making money by doing nothing, leveraging out the ass, and taking advantage of others, the truth tends to cut through the jargon.
Do you really-really find the lingo unsurmountable?
If you get deep into "investment" advise, it can sound confusing pretty quickly. But if you remember it's all about making money by doing nothing, leveraging out the ass, and taking advantage of others, the truth tends to cut through the jargon.
49
RWSGFY
2023 Mar 8, 6:41pm
RWSGFY
2023 Mar 8, 6:41pm
Patrick says
You'll need a time machine to do that.
Bd6r says
I borrowed 500K at 2.1 pct interest in September 2021 to buy a farm. Due to Bidenflation I am paying it back as slow as possible.
Bd6r Damn, if you could borrow at 2.1% and buy US Treasuries at 4.5%, you'd have a perpetual money machine.
You'll need a time machine to do that.
50
RWSGFY
2023 Mar 8, 6:43pm
RWSGFY
2023 Mar 8, 6:43pm
NuttBoxer says
So? If you get into any new to you area it might sound very confusing quickly. But is it really harder to understand than Physics or Calculus? No, it's much simpler.
Eric Holder says
Do you really-really find the lingo unsurmountable?
If you get deep into "investment" advise, it can sound confusing pretty quickly.
So? If you get into any new to you area it might sound very confusing quickly. But is it really harder to understand than Physics or Calculus? No, it's much simpler.
51
WookieMan
2023 Mar 8, 9:36pm
WookieMan
2023 Mar 8, 9:36pm
GNL says
You make a valid point, but everything is flawed. If it wasn't you should just be able to buy one car when you're 16 and drive it until you're 95. Possible, but not feasible.
Debt ain't perfect for sure. But nothing is. If I have gold or silver, they're still gonna give me paper money. Guess what, shit hits the fan your physical gold/silver is gone. There's no perfect system. My buddy basically built the most recent JP Morgan investing site as the lead. One of the worlds leading investment banks had to rebuild something that wasn't working.
The way I look at debt is like a product. It's bread, milk, cheese, etc. If you have lactose issues don't eat/drink the milk or cheese. Stick to bread. Debt is milk/cheese for some people. And that's okay. If I call someone a bad person or pussy because they can't eat cheese, that's pure intellectual laziness. I'd say dude, that sucks I love cheese. I can handle cheese (DEBT) and I'm sorry you can't. I'm sure you like other foods though?
That's my line of thought. Some people simply cannot handle debt. That's fine. To say it's bad is absolutely wrong. We've emailed privately GNL You literally don't have a job without other people using debt. I wouldn't have either for 15 years. Rich doesn't have a job (Edit, I believe he does, that came across bad). Hence why I say we'd all be dead. It's all a ponzi scheme, but as long as incomes grow to some extent it's fine. So you get a Chevy instead of a Mercedes. You buy generic at the grocery store. The alternative without debt is literally death. Every working person on this forum is paid with debt....
A lot of good points are made in this comment. Richwicks is correct in that the system is flawed. Either you use debt to control others or you are controlled by debt. I believe this is the system as it is designed. Default is baked into the cake. How many times has the US defaulted? But then the parasite class continues to get bailouts. This time around (covid) everyone got bailed out. This is total fraud.
You make a valid point, but everything is flawed. If it wasn't you should just be able to buy one car when you're 16 and drive it until you're 95. Possible, but not feasible.
Debt ain't perfect for sure. But nothing is. If I have gold or silver, they're still gonna give me paper money. Guess what, shit hits the fan your physical gold/silver is gone. There's no perfect system. My buddy basically built the most recent JP Morgan investing site as the lead. One of the worlds leading investment banks had to rebuild something that wasn't working.
The way I look at debt is like a product. It's bread, milk, cheese, etc. If you have lactose issues don't eat/drink the milk or cheese. Stick to bread. Debt is milk/cheese for some people. And that's okay. If I call someone a bad person or pussy because they can't eat cheese, that's pure intellectual laziness. I'd say dude, that sucks I love cheese. I can handle cheese (DEBT) and I'm sorry you can't. I'm sure you like other foods though?
That's my line of thought. Some people simply cannot handle debt. That's fine. To say it's bad is absolutely wrong. We've emailed privately GNL You literally don't have a job without other people using debt. I wouldn't have either for 15 years. Rich doesn't have a job (Edit, I believe he does, that came across bad). Hence why I say we'd all be dead. It's all a ponzi scheme, but as long as incomes grow to some extent it's fine. So you get a Chevy instead of a Mercedes. You buy generic at the grocery store. The alternative without debt is literally death. Every working person on this forum is paid with debt....
52
GNL
2023 Mar 9, 3:42am
GNL
2023 Mar 9, 3:42am
If/when we go to CBDC as "currency", I believe that is when it becomes apparent that debt is slavery. They'll need to be able to control your $$ just to keep the system fluid.
53
GNL
2023 Mar 9, 4:14am
GNL
2023 Mar 9, 4:14am
The biggest problem imo is that the wrong people/group have/has control over the creation of money. They also fraudulently bailout certain groups. You can't have an honest system without failure...for everyone. Failure can't simply mean that an entity/person can fail without financial pain. The only people that get bailed out are failures. That's insane.
54
Eman
2023 Mar 9, 5:34am
Eman
2023 Mar 9, 5:34am
ECBB,
Debt is a tool….just like a knife. It cuts both ways. With that said, do what makes you feel comfortable. A piece of mind is worth a lot.
What I’ve learned is that liquidity = value during time of crisis like a recession or a job loss. We don’t have access to the liquidity when we’re paying down our mortgage…especially at 3% interest rate.
How about an alternative? Instead of paying $2k/mo towards mortgage principal, put that money in short term CD’s. Quite a few banks offer north of 4% now. Here’s a sheet I recently got from Fidelity.
Once you have amassed enough cash from these CD’s, you can payoff the house at once if you’re desired to. In the meantime, hang onto the liquidity and use CD’s as a way to offset the interest you’re paying on your mortgage?
Debt is a tool….just like a knife. It cuts both ways. With that said, do what makes you feel comfortable. A piece of mind is worth a lot.
What I’ve learned is that liquidity = value during time of crisis like a recession or a job loss. We don’t have access to the liquidity when we’re paying down our mortgage…especially at 3% interest rate.
How about an alternative? Instead of paying $2k/mo towards mortgage principal, put that money in short term CD’s. Quite a few banks offer north of 4% now. Here’s a sheet I recently got from Fidelity.
Once you have amassed enough cash from these CD’s, you can payoff the house at once if you’re desired to. In the meantime, hang onto the liquidity and use CD’s as a way to offset the interest you’re paying on your mortgage?
55
Eman
2023 Mar 9, 5:43am
Eman
2023 Mar 9, 5:43am
To emphasize that debt is a tool, here’s a short read from someone who shared his personal experience going from being a normal Joe to having a net worth of $10M, etc…
“When I finally achieved a net worth of $250,000, I realized that within a few years I could be a millionaire.
By the time I had a net worth of $500,000, I realized that I was absolutely going to be a multimillionaire.
A few years later, when I became a millionaire, I realized that three million would be fairly easy to achieve.
When I reached three million a few years later, I realized that I could be at five and ten million in no time at all.
The time from five million to ten million was much shorter than the time that it took me to achieve my first $250,000.
I had a steady income, just an average paying salary. I was living below my means and that allowed me to invest in, and eventually buy, the company that I was hired 20 years earlier to start. Then I was able to pay myself a little more and receive benefits of business ownership on a larger scale.
Any additional income came from various real estate investments.
Today, nearly forty years later, 95% of my net worth can be attributed to real estate.”
“When I finally achieved a net worth of $250,000, I realized that within a few years I could be a millionaire.
By the time I had a net worth of $500,000, I realized that I was absolutely going to be a multimillionaire.
A few years later, when I became a millionaire, I realized that three million would be fairly easy to achieve.
When I reached three million a few years later, I realized that I could be at five and ten million in no time at all.
The time from five million to ten million was much shorter than the time that it took me to achieve my first $250,000.
I had a steady income, just an average paying salary. I was living below my means and that allowed me to invest in, and eventually buy, the company that I was hired 20 years earlier to start. Then I was able to pay myself a little more and receive benefits of business ownership on a larger scale.
Any additional income came from various real estate investments.
Today, nearly forty years later, 95% of my net worth can be attributed to real estate.”
56
clambo
2023 Mar 9, 6:22am
Of course you can make money in real estate.
The problem is you may have an illiquid net worth; my friends in Santa Cruz own expensive houses but can't raise $1000 in a hurry.
My mutual funds are liquid; I can move a mouse and put a lot of dough in my checking account anytime.
But it's not too bad collecting rent either if you own more than one place.
The problem is you may have an illiquid net worth; my friends in Santa Cruz own expensive houses but can't raise $1000 in a hurry.
My mutual funds are liquid; I can move a mouse and put a lot of dough in my checking account anytime.
But it's not too bad collecting rent either if you own more than one place.
58
AD
2024 Mar 24, 8:53pm
AD
2024 Mar 24, 8:53pm
Patrick says
overdue for a recession but not going to happen (as far as being reported in the economic data) during a re election year with a Democrat in the White House
they let the air out or burst right after the November election just like gas prices conveniently or "miraculously" increased after the 2022 midterms because of how they manipulated and misused the strategic oil reserve
https://nakedemperor.substack.com/p/this-weeks-must-reads-18-24-march
overdue for a recession but not going to happen (as far as being reported in the economic data) during a re election year with a Democrat in the White House
they let the air out or burst right after the November election just like gas prices conveniently or "miraculously" increased after the 2022 midterms because of how they manipulated and misused the strategic oil reserve
59
mell
2024 Mar 24, 8:59pm
AD says
Agreed
Patrick says
https://nakedemperor.substack.com/p/this-weeks-must-reads-18-24-march
overdue for a recession but not going to happen (as far as being reported in the economic data) during a re election year with a Democrat in the White House
they let the air out and burst right after the November election just like gas prices conveniently or "miraculously" increased after the 2022 midterms because of how they manipulated and misused the strategic oil reserve
Agreed
60
Eric Holder
2024 Mar 26, 2:56pm
Eric Holder
2024 Mar 26, 2:56pm
AD says
Gas prices are creeping up now. It can't be good for the incumbent. Why aren't they "manipulating" them down?
gas prices conveniently or "miraculously" increased after the 2022 midterms because of how they manipulated and misused the strategic oil reserve
Gas prices are creeping up now. It can't be good for the incumbent. Why aren't they "manipulating" them down?
61
NuttBoxer
2024 Mar 26, 4:52pm
NuttBoxer
2024 Mar 26, 4:52pm
Price suppression only goes so far. The natural force of the free market cannot be contained forever. Hyperinflation is the only logical outcome of central banking..
« First « Previous Comments 36 - 62 of 62 Search these comments
As interest rates rise, the math says that it's better if invest any spare cash rather than pay down debt, which is at a low fixed rate (house, student loan, small car loan). However, particularly with the mortgage, there is something to be said for the peace of mind of having it behind me and owning my home outright. I'm fully funding my 401(k), and have a six month emergency fund, but until now, any "free cash" beyond that, I've been diverting to the mortgage. As I sit right now, the goal is have it paid off in the next 5 to 7 years. With high yield savings paying about 4% right now, that's a 1% spread relative to my 3% mortgage.
As much as I could try to invest in the market 1) I'm not that good, and 2) the market has more or less peaked, and I don't see another major bull market given that we are seeing the end of the "everything bubble". Once I own the house free and clear, then I'll have plenty of "play money" to invest or whatever and hopefully catch the next upswing.