patrick.net

IRAs, annuities, 401Ks, etc. are immune from civil judgement.
In most states so is your house.
I didn't answer your question however.

I need more insurance because my assets are not entirely in retirement accounts, so I'm exposed to a potential lawsuit.

Sharing what I found:- - -
Here’s what umbrella insurance does not include:
Your own injuries
Damage to your own personal belongings
Intentional or criminal acts
Property damage or injuries in certain instances, like using uncovered recreational vehicles or uncovered dog breeds
Others’ injuries or damage that your business is liable for
Basically, umbrella insurance never covers your own costs. It only helps cover expenses if you are sued for damages and are found at-fault.

Get higher deductible policies on collision and homeowner.

The amount saved from such superfluous nickel-and-dime coverages ought to cover a liberal umbrella policy.

GEICO told me I had to be maxed on my other policies before they would issue an umbrella policy (this was almost 10 years ago, though).

I've had very bad experiences with insurance companies in the post-covid timeframe (I prevailed, despite their attempts otherwise). They are going to find any way to fuck you and avoid getting out of paying.

The yield curve inversion is crucifying insurance companies. I suspect that they are teetering on bankruptcy.

Insurance companies made a mint from the early 1980's through 2020, when interest rates declined from 20% to 0%. Now, it's going up and will continue to go up. Read up about all the bankruptcies in the 1970's when rising interest rates caught a whole bunch of banks and financialized businesses with their pants down.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Get higher deductible policies on collision and homeowner.

Yeah, I agree with your recommendation. Thank you.

stereotomy says

GEICO told me I had to be maxed on my other policies before they would issue an umbrella policy

That's why umbrella policies are usually inexpensive. They won't issue you the umbrella policy unless you have already bought an expensive auto and home policies.

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$376 a year for my wife and myself for $1 million umbrella coverage from Allstate ... get 27% discount on our auto policies for 2 cars based on signing up for umbrella coverage

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Insurance is always a moving target. My hunch is they will go into an area until the local lawyers and client frauds start establishing win precedents in the courts like a formula, then withdraw and perhaps come back later with different language and underwriting policies. Or, they keep track of the litigious types and only offer policies to the known steady but non-litigious customers. They are always changing their co-insurers and underwriters in a downgrade from original policies, and send you the papers over time which nobody ever reads.

If you have home equity and expensive home in California, you are kind of a sitting duck and probably should spring for the umbrella, which is not that expensive but adds coverage above and beyond. It's the basic coverages that are the most expensive.

ad says

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$376 a year for my wife and myself for $1 million umbrella coverage from Allstate ... get 27% discount on our auto policies for 2 cars based on signing up for umbrella coverage

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$376 is quite reasonable. I will continue to research this since I do want umbrella coverage.

I'd get more term life before an umbrella if you have kids and a family. The odds of needing an umbrella policy to cover something are slim to none for 99% of the population unless you have someone out to sue you. I'd bet the cost of your policy over your lifetime that you'll never use it. Let's put it that way.

Protect yourself as you see fit, but umbrellas are generally overkill for the massive majority of people. And yes, I have one. Only reason I keep it is because of having a pool. If you don't have a trampoline or other hazard like a pool, I don't think an umbrella policy is gonna do you any good. And don't talk to insurance people, they're in the business of selling them. It's easy money they know they'll never pay out on.

Umbrella is probably a waste of $$ but it's buying peace of mind. Like an Aflac policy, it probably pays out about .000000001% of the time. I priced our Umbrella policy through Geico about 10 years ago and even then they were ridiculously overpriced. I think their quote was over $600 and then we switched to Nationwide and got a bigger umbrella for less than $400. We always bundle so it's hard to say what's really cheaper - I just look at total cost for coverages on everything.

stfu says

We always bundle so it's hard to say what's really cheaper - I just look at total cost for coverages on everything.

When it pays it pays. One of the tougher costs to justify. Wife has banged up enough cars, but that'a required. First time we got travel insurance we used it to the tune of $6k for $120 policy. Well worth it. Would have had to eat that money or miss an unforeseen death/wake/funeral. We have an umbrella policy. I frankly don't fully don't understand what it protects against. We have a pool so figured it was worth it. Haven't used it, but 2 near drowning events from morons not watching their kids we keep it. I'm gonna enjoy myself and if you're too lazy to watch your kid and they die, well, we have insurance for that. Take the money and don't return to my property ever again.

800 is too much money, I think I pay like $250/year for 2 million from progressive, but maybe there’s something special about you that makes you more likely to be sued.

I’d still recommend you get a policy. The great thing about it that hasn’t been mentioned is that it is lawyer insurance. Some worker at your house falls of a ladder, not only are you covered, but the insurance company will pay lawyers to defend you. Without umbrella you’re on your own.

How many of you all have been involved in any legal matter? I've been in two lawsuits and both were insignificant. I won one and lost the other.

1337irr says

How many of you all have been involved in any legal matter? I've been in two lawsuits and both were insignificant. I won one and lost the other.

Not to be snarkey, but.....

With that logic we can drop all our insurance policies.

1337irr says

How many of you all have been involved in any legal matter?

Does being on jury duty count?

Geico is ridiculously overpriced when they are simply reselling someone else's policy.

zzyzzx says

Geico is ridiculously overpriced when they are simply reselling someone else's policy.

Right. I would be totally fine with paying $500 or less. I will call and talk to some other companies.

WookieMan says

The odds of needing an umbrella policy to cover something are slim to none for 99% of the population

IMO, landlords should have an umbrella policy. I had one through USAA that provided $1million coverage for about $350 per year.

If you have a teenage driver in the househould you absolutely should get an umbrella. Otherwise I don't really think it's necessary.

There is such a thing as being over-insured.

Eric Holder says

If you have a teenage driver in the househould you absolutely should get an umbrella. Otherwise I don't really think it's necessary.

There is such a thing as being over-insured.

Yep, I do have a teenage driver and the teenager must be included in the umbrella coverage? Will the insurance company include the teenager in the umbrella coverage?

stereotomy says

GEICO told me I had to be maxed on my other policies before they would issue an umbrella policy (this was almost 10 years ago, though).

I've had very bad experiences with insurance companies in the post-covid timeframe (I prevailed, despite their attempts otherwise). They are going to find any way to fuck you and avoid getting out of paying.

Are you implying that GEICO is not a reliable insurance provider/

WookieMan says

I'd get more term life before an umbrella if you have kids and a family.

Yes, I do. What's term life and why is it better than umbrella? I live in an apartment. So, no pool or trampoline. Have a timid and friendly dog. My main concern now is some cash that's growing in my checking account.

stereotomy says

Read up about all the bankruptcies in the 1970's when rising interest rates caught a whole bunch of banks and financialized businesses with their pants down.

The interest rates went up in a short time, over several months and I reckon this must be catching a lot of companies with their pants down. Wonder what impact this will have in 2024 and 2025. Now I hear about quiet layoff, that is, layoffs information is blacked out from the mainstream media.

gabbar says

stereotomy says

GEICO told me I had to be maxed on my other policies before they would issue an umbrella policy (this was almost 10 years ago, though).

I've had very bad experiences with insurance companies in the post-covid timeframe (I prevailed, despite their attempts otherwise). They are going to find any way to fuck you and avoid getting out of paying.

Are you implying that GEICO is not a reliable insurance provider/

At this point I don't know. I've had GEICO for close to 30 years, and they had always been good to deal with. USAA is by far the best customer experience, but I'm not a vet so I can't get their coverage.

I'm saying that in the last few years (probably pandemic related), their customer service has gone radically downhill. Everything is pushed through their app, it's hard to get hold of a real person, and sometimes you get really incompetent, horrible people.

My last accident claim (totally the other person's fault, with police and independent witness statements corroborating this) had this cocksucker adjuster ignoring the police report and witness statement to assign 50% fault to me. I had to do his work for him and get the police report and sent it to GEICO before they would correct his error. It took almost 3 months to fix my car because of supply chain problems, and I would have been short term fucked without a free rental car (which I had to wait 2 weeks for because the rental car companies sold off all their car fleets and were short inventory). What a clusterfuck.

Maybe GEICO will get better, or maybe I won the shitty customer service lottery. I know if I could get a better or similar rate, I'd bail. I've just been with them so long, my rate is 20-30% lower than what anyone else can offer.

gabbar says

Eric Holder says

If you have a teenage driver in the househould you absolutely should get an umbrella. Otherwise I don't really think it's necessary.

There is such a thing as being over-insured.

Yep, I do have a teenage driver and the teenager must be included in the umbrella coverage? Will the insurance company include the teenager in the umbrella coverage?

Per my understanding everybody in the household should be included. I don't have an umbrealla policy myself, but I will soon have a teenage driver.

ARE THERE ANY GOOD/ETHICAL INSURANCE COMPANIES OR NOT?

https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/jury-orders-state-farm-to-pay-36m-after[…]-crash/article_830e12d4-7f22-11ee-ba22-334db730b255.html

A Santa Fe jury has determined insurance provider State Farm violated state law and acted in bad faith when it offered a lowball settlement to the family of a Belen woman who died in a 2017 car crash.

The jury ordered the insurance company to pay the estate of Andrea Lovato $36 million, including $24 million for bad-faith practices and breach of contract.

The woman’s family had accused the insurance company of changing the liability limit on her policy after she died in a head-on collision in Valencia County that also injured her young nephew.

Lovato had upgraded her State Farm car insurance policy five days before the fatal accident after her car was stolen and damaged, said Albuquerque lawyer Shane Maier. She boosted her coverage to $1 million per accident from $25,000 per motorist and $50,000 per accident, according to a statement on the website of the Gauthier & Maier Law Firm in Albuquerque, which represented her estate and her family in the lawsuit.

gabbar says

A Santa Fe jury has determined insurance provider State Farm violated state law and acted in bad faith when it offered a lowball settlement to the family of a Belen woman who died in a 2017 car crash.

insurance companies will reliably drag it out even if it means dragging it out in the court system ... getting umbrella coverage or high coverage is to protect you as the defendant in lawsuits

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