patrick.net

Ceffer says

Not around here. They are quite the diehard fan boys and agitprop repeating stations. Where they get the agitprop I shudder to contemplate.

Loud keyboard Putin boosters can't define what a Russian "win" looks like at this point and have no idea how many Russians have been killed (or will be killed) to achieve this unstated "win".

The bigger the lies, the louder and longer the agitprop screamers. I guess when they are afraid of losing their paid ministries, they curl and shake fists and yell the programmed lies hoping the masters will continue to employ and deploy them.

Ceffer says

The bigger the lies, the louder and longer the agitprop screamers. I guess when they are afraid of losing their paid ministries, they curl and shake fists and yell the programmed lies hoping the masters will continue to employ and deploy them.

Got a reliable Russian casualty figure yet?

Do you have any metrics that can define a Russian "win" so we know how to properly evaluate? If you have none of this, you are just talking out of your ass.

The_Deplorable says

• They did not abolish their borders like the USA. Question: Is the USA still a country? Hello?

We could take all of Mexico in a month. No problem. We don't. Russia could have thrown gas/oil resources at this and just paid Ukraine for the land. That approach is intelligent if Russia believed most people they're attacking would prefer Russia. It's a win win. That's not what happened. Pure stupidity.

The_Deplorable says

• They did not send their manufacturing plants (including equipment floor bolts) to China. That must have saved the elites a lot of money huh? Question: Are they still saving?

Outside of energy Russia imports massive amounts to survive. That includes the labor to extract the resources that they're pissing away over a tiny swath of land. They're willing to throw young men at this war because they know they're fucked long term without a solid warm water port and land access.

The_Deplorable says

• Unlike the US economy that was flushed down the drain the Russian economy is booming and they are experiencing a shortage of workers.

This surely is in jest? Sanctions don't just destroy an economy overnight. It takes years. Not sure the point.

I don't have a pony in this race. Fact is Russia will "win," while at the same time get their asses handed to them and be worse off. It's not about dead bodies on either side. They don't and won't control the Black Sea without invading Turkey. Their land mass is shit besides resources. This is one of the dumbest offenses in modern history. And that's saying a lot with our fucking around in Irag and Afghanistan.

Ukraine is toast. But Russia is once again over. Not different than the USSR. Rise and repeat. Toss out our civil war we've had the most stabile economy and country for 2 centuries. Even our civil war ended up with the same boundaries. The US ain't perfect. The rest of the world isn't remotely close.

socal2 says

Got a reliable Russian casualty figure yet?

Do you have any metrics that can define a Russian "win" so we know how to properly evaluate? If you have none of this, you are just talking out of your ass.

Russia wins when Ukraine loses.

And Ukraine is fucked.

OMG!

How horrible!

socal2 says

define what a Russian "win" looks like

Regime change in America and a negotiated peace. Russia keeps Crimea and eastern Ukraine and the Bidens get prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

Onvacation says

socal2 says

define what a Russian "win" looks like

Regime change in America and a negotiated peace. Russia keeps Crimea and eastern Ukraine and the Bidens get prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

None of that will happen. The territory will be in perpetual war forever. Cease fire, sure. That's it. No regime change here anytime soon. Executive branch is not enough. Biden's will never be charged with anything meaningful. Trump will win and then fade away and we'll get another Neocon ass hole to fill the void from either side of the aisle.

Not what I'm hoping for, just being realistic. We need a hot civil war for there to be any meaningful changes. Not happening. I don't see the status quo changing in my lifetime.

WookieMan says

Not what I'm hoping for, just being realistic. We need a hot civil war for there to be any meaningful changes. Not happening. I don't see the status quo changing in my lifetime.

Agree, system needs to fail. It will be really painfully and will probably take a generation. Sad that it has to happen and at one time could have been avoided.

RC2006 says

WookieMan says

Not what I'm hoping for, just being realistic. We need a hot civil war for there to be any meaningful changes. Not happening. I don't see the status quo changing in my lifetime.

Agree, system needs to fail. It will be really painfully and will probably take a generation. Sad that it has to happen and at one time could have been avoided.

I'm concerned it doesn't happen. Future generations are just enslaved by this shit. Why do we even care about Ukraine or Isreal? All that shit is 10 hours away on a 500mph jet.

We should focus on this Hemisphere. We don't need to be shipping crap 2,500 miles+ to live. It makes no sense. We should be investing in Mexico, Central American and South America. None of us are at war with each other. Fuck the rest of the world at this point. Trade with them, but fuck NATO. Fuck their constant problems. We're talking centuries of absolute bull shit. It's never ending. Time to rip the bandaid off is my take. Not nationalist per se but hemispheralist if that's a term. Cut the globe in half and take care of our part.

In the news...

"By day four, Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s top commander, had seen enough. Incinerated Western military hardware - American Bradleys, German Leopard tanks, mine-sweeping vehicles - littered the battlefield. The numbers of dead and wounded sapped morale..." https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/04/ukraine-counteroffensive-stalled-russia-war-defenses/

" Putin's forces 'advancing on all fronts'... Zelensky said Ukrainian defenses must quickly be beefed up across the front line. "In all major sectors where reinforcement is needed, [we must] speed up building of structures," the Ukrainian leader said... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/01/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news/

"White House warns it is ‘out of money and nearly out of time’ to aid Ukraine... "I want to be clear: without congressional action, by the end of the year we will run out of resources to procure more weapons and equipment for Ukraine and to provide equipment from US military stocks," Shalanda Young, director of the office of management and budget, wrote in the letter... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/04/white-house-ukraine-military-aid-warning

And then we have John Bolton's fantasies and wishful thinking...

"I think people in the House and the Senate should press Biden harder to develop a winning strategy with Ukraine, not just preventing Ukraine from losing, but figure out how Ukraine can win," he continued... https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4339230-bolton-argues-us-must-act-quickly-on-ukraine-aid/

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/grim-vermin-tuesday-december-5-2023

🚀 Well, this seems like a bad sign. Politico ran a gloomy story yesterday headlined, “NATO should be ready for ‘bad news’ from Ukraine, Stoltenberg warns.” Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, who is probably still mad about getting a girl’s name, tried to put a good spin on his dark warning. The sub-headline explained, “‘We have to support Ukraine in both good and bad times,’ NATO chief says in ARD interview.”

But … Do we though? Especially, and this is the sticky bit, and it was fun while it lasted, of course, but do we really ‘have to support Ukraine’ in the bad times? Why? Why do we have to support Ukraine in the bad times?

It’s not like we got married or anything.

Whether or not bad times are coming, bad news for Ukraine has already arrived. Politico’s article unenthusiastically noted that, over the weekend, Russia increased the size of its army — again — this time by 170,000 more soldiers, bringing its estimated total military to over 2.3 million service members. Meanwhile, visible on a clear day from Siberia, Ukraine’s rich uncle Daddy Warbucks is not expanding his army. Uncle Sam faces critical recruiting problems, has a porous border arguably even worse than Ukraine’s, and by all accounts has snapped its wallet closed and jammed it back down the old trouser pocket.

In other words, it’s all bad news. Quibble if you like, but the weekend’s headlines can hardly be called good news. ...

And, behold this exquisitely-painful sentence that WaPo editors must have anguished over leaving in its article (or maybe dutifully added per instructions by their government handlers, either way):



Haha! Reached a stalemate! How many billions did it cost to achieve this “stalemate”? And, how times have changed. Back in the day, if I’d written a sentence like that, I would have been kidnapped from the law firm’s parking lot and woken up with a headache and a face tattoo branding me a “Putin-lover!” Maybe Ukraine needs to get itself some new “senior military officials” who don’t love Putin.

I still suspect that Nuland and Blinken's real goal in the US-provoked war in Ukraine was to cause the deaths of as many Ukrainian and Russian men as possible, and in particular for the Nazi Azov regiment, as a revenge for historical anti-Semitism in that area. This would also explain the odd sight of a Jewish president leading Nazis into war. Zelensky's goal all along was to get them to die, and then to retire to Florida to his estate and yachts paid for by US "aid" to Ukraine.

Patrick says

But....BUT!

socal2 says

Ukraine, despite what you think - is now one of the most experienced and most heavily armed militaries in Europe and are going to continue killing tens of thousands of foolish Russians

https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-boss-jens-stoltenberg-warns-of-bad-news-from-ukraine/

Patrick says

Careful here. If the briefing was classified, how did Tucker know the details? Also, what the SecDef has said before is that if we do not aid Ukraine now, Russia will conquer Ukraine and then move on to conquering eastern Europe, which will mean US Military would get involved. Ridiculous, yes, but it is not a good idea for Tucker to omit this detail and imply that the SecDef will send American troops to Ukraine merely because aid was denied. Too easy to debunk, especially when the SecDef does not have the power to commit troops.

HeadSet says

if we do not aid Ukraine now, Russia will conquer Ukraine and then move on to conquering eastern Europe,

Bullshit.

HeadSet says

which will mean US Military would get involved.

More bullshit. We can't, for one thing. Second, we won't. The US military can't fight a war like this anymore. It couldn't even fight the Iraq War all over again.

HeadSet says

If the briefing was classified, how did Tucker know the details?

Figure it out.

HeadSet says

imply that the SecDef will send American troops to Ukraine merely because aid was denied. Too easy to debunk,

Not really.

New Pledges of Military and Finanical Support to Ukraine Down 90 Per Cent in a Year: Report

A German research body that tracks donations to Ukraine says the value of pledges fell almost 90 per cent between Autumn 2022 and 2023, with levels dwindling since this Summer, around the time of Kyiv’s ‘Spring Offensive’.

Pledges of military and financial aid to Ukraine are now lower than they were before the renewed Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the Keil Institute says of its latest tranche of data published through its Ukraine Support Tracker programme. Noting donors have become “more hesitant in recent months”, Christoph Trebesch, a director at the Institute claimed “a further delay” to large aid programmes planned by the European Union and the United States of America would “significantly strengthen Putin’s position”.

More here: https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/12/08/new-pledges-of-military-and-finanical-support-to-ukraine-down-90-per-cent-in-a-year-report/

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/sorry-about-the-mistakes-friday-december

The news IS bad! Our morons in charge have no “plan B.” Their one and only plan is another 100 billion in round dollars — don’t ask how they calculated that — with no actual military battle plan to win the war or whatever the goal is. Vindman’s tweet was a deep-state hostage demand. In other words, cough up the cash, or Ukraine dies.

Allow me to explain his offer using an imaginary conversation between Congress and the generals on the Joint Chiefs of Staff:

CONGRESS: Boys, the news is bad. We are 33 trillion in debt. We need you to come up with a less expensive way to help Ukraine survive its war with Russia.

GENERALS: You people don’t know war. We’re the experts. How do you expect us to win a Proxy War without shooting cash at the enemy inside depleted uranium shells? It’s impossible! No plan B!

CONGRESS: Nobody wants Putin to win, but we do have some nine-inch, bright-red Jimmy Choo stiletto pumps we can give you. How about that?

GENERALS: Give us the pumps and we’ll think about it.

Softening them up for the partition? Russians losing again all over NATO who isn't really there. Or, they aren't there now except for hamburger helper remains. Russians could at least have the courtesy to leave intact parts for organ harvesting.




https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=233352

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/sorry-about-the-mistakes-friday-december

Malaysia Today ran a story yesterday headlined, “Ukraine aid also creates growth, jobs at home, says Blinken.“ Looking especially haggard and worn-out, and almost fully-grey now, owlish Secretary of State and master propagandist Antony Blinken assured press conference reporters yesterday that, “if you look at the investments that we’ve made in Ukraine’s defense to deal with this aggression, 90% of the security assistance we’ve provided has actually been spent here in the US with our manufacturers.”

The serial prevaricator stressed that Ukraine aid has “produced more American jobs, more growth in our own economy.” He didn’t cite any statistics. But don’t ask questions. You see, it’s win-win.

This is the kind of robotic, anti-human, tone-deaf argument that is often caused by chronic Adderall consumption. 600,000 dead Ukrainians were unavailable to comment on how 90% of the laundered aid money actually helps the U.S. economy. Twelve million displaced Ukrainians also did not return any requests for comment by the time of publication.

So... Blinken is admitting that the war was motivated by MIC interests?

Well, hasn't the WEF declared that dead Slavs can be ground up into wonderful fuels that compete with green measures? They are great fertilizer for next year's Ukrainian wheat crops, too. And all of those wonderful criminal economies of drug, child, human trafficking, and the weapons black markets feeding the other Hegelian conflicts in the world and Middle East all got a BIG shot in the arm. Have the Committee of 300 and the Swiss Octagon been pleased with their returns and future buying opportunities in the crime syndicates? One has to look on the bright side.

Secret foreign agent man Blinken, installed by who knows what neocon City of London MI6 Mossad CIA conglomerate nightmare, is trying to sell the Moloch sacrifices as a GOOD thing.

If he is going insane, GOOD. It means the demons are rudderless.

PumpingRedheads says

HeadSet says

imply that the SecDef will send American troops to Ukraine merely because aid was denied. Too easy to debunk,

Not really.

?? That "readers context " did debunk that implication "the SecDef will send American troops to Ukraine merely because aid was denied."

I think the chance of Russia invading Europe after winning in Ukraine is zero. The reason Russia annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine is that Puti does not want a NATO naval base at Sevastopol. and Odessa.

HeadSet says

? That "readers context " did debunk that implication "the SecDef will send American troops to Ukraine merely because aid was denied."

No. What is being reported because it leaked out (which you implied that you didn't believe that, too)

HeadSet says

I think the chance of Russia invading Europe after winning in Ukraine is zero. The reason Russia annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine is that Puti does not want a NATO naval base at Sevastopol. and Odessa.

Now you're talkin'!

I think at worse what the Russians will do is Finlandize Eastern Europe.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization

PumpingRedheads says

I think at worse what the Russians will do is Finlandize Eastern Europe.

I heard a Soviet general speak about "Finlandization." He said it was odd that the West describes Finland that way when Finland is the only country that militarily defeated the USSR. The general said that Soviet tanks had visited many European capitals and even Peking, but never have Soviet tanks visited Helsinki even though the Soviets lost a million men trying to conquer Finland.

HeadSet says

I heard a Soviet general speak about "Finlandization." He said it was odd that the West describes Finland that way when Finland is the only country that militarily defeated the USSR. The general said that Soviet tanks had visited many European capitals and even Peking, but never have Soviet tanks visited Helsinki even though the Soviets lost a million men trying to conquer Finland.

The Finns got in bed with Nazi Germany in order to stave off eventual conquest in the Winter War. Therefore there was no way the Allies were going to come to their defense if the Sovs decided to press the issue post V-E Day.

And after the war, when the Soviets had millions under arms and just doing occupation duty in E. Europe, Finland was fucked. This wasn't the basketcase Red Army that existed just a few years before.

Everybody knew this. The Finns especially. Apparently this general you are quoting never got this history lesson.

Just like what the Russian Federation is fielding now against Ukraine vs 18 months ago. Something that the Ukey Nazi Fluffers here don't know or refuse to believe when told.

Since our enemies are in Europe and Britain and the Gestapo CIA/MI6 etc. etc., and the Ukrainian thing is an ancient Slav/KMaf Nazi soap opera that the neocon infiltrators have forced on us, Putin cutting a swath through Switzerland might be the lesser of two evils. There is nothing at this point that indicates that Putin is working to eliminate 95 percent of humanity for demon overlords, so our chances with him are better.

Let Eurasia eat itself, and let Africa AIDs itself to death.

All the US has to do is say fuck it to the rest of the world, which will subsequently be eaten and subsumed by the Rothschilds and Globohomo, who themselves will soon starve/die due to the exhaustion of ready adrenochrome.

https://sashastone.substack.com/p/tucker-on-an-american-citizen-tortured

Ep. 47 Gonzalo Lira is an American citizen who’s been tortured in a Ukrainian prison since July, for the crime of criticizing Zelensky. Biden officials approve of this, because they’d like to apply the same standard here. The media agree. Here’s a statement from Gonzalo Lira’s father.

Wow, Gonzalo Lira's father is a man worth listening to.

I didn't know Lira was a US Citizen. I thought he was Italian.

I think his parents are from Chile.

Patrick says

Could be the Ukrainian artillery shelling in Russian occupied areas of Donbas, eastern Ukraine

Donbas was already very pro-Russian because it was Stalinized.

Stalin put Russians in that region. I read now Russia is moving eastern Russians to eastern Ukraine in the same context of Stalinzation.

Russia learned the hard way that Ukraine is not pro-Kremlin outside of Donbas area; just examine how the Russian military fared in Bucha and in the region east of Kiev.

The Kremlin is now trying to slowly grind down the political will and sovereignty of Ukraine to get its citizenry to accept the Kremlin's cease fire conditions.

.

https://mattbivens.substack.com/p/ukraines-percolating-hatred-of-america

America Provoked and Fed This War

What I want to address today is the burden of guilt that the United States bears for this pointless tragedy.

First, Washington arrogantly blew off a long series of Russian warnings — escalating warnings, year after year — that Russia would go to war if we continued to try to pull Ukraine into the orbit of Western militaries and defense contractors. The Russians objected to the idea of Ukraine joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO); and more specifically, they objected to ongoing U.S. covert and overt involvement in Ukraine’s frequent political crises, and in its civil war in the Donbas.

(Is it surprising that Russia objects to NATO, a hostile military alliance, scheming and skulking on its doorstep? Decades ago, when Cuba joined in an anti-American alliance with the Soviet Union, we were so infuriated at the idea of a nuclear-armed power sneaking around on our doorstep that we took the world to the brink of annihilation.) ...

The final year before the Russian invasion was one of escalating, tense diplomacy — a time when the Russians repeatedly asked for the U.S. and NATO to stop our CIA covert ops and other provocations and get out of Ukraine — or to at least negotiate about that situation — and Washington repeatedly brushed them off.

And when Russia finally did invade?

At that point, we rubbed our hands together gleefully, and poured exponentially more weapons and money into the conflict. The war metastasized to a far greater size and scale. Congress spent more on this new war in Ukraine than it did on roads and bridges for America. U.S. war profits soared. Soon, we were treated to surreally instructive scenes like that of the U.S. President speaking from a podium at a munitions factory in Alabama, surrounded on stage not by fellow human beings, but by missiles all standing at attention in place of people. ...

And now that the war is approaching an inevitable turning point — to continue with a strained analogy, now that the silverback gorilla has beat the 10-year-old senseless — the war-profiteering sales pitch is more cynical than ever.

The White House can no longer convincingly claim it’s helping Ukrainians when it demands another $60 billion “for the war.” So, it’s switched to claiming it’s helping Arizonians and Pennsylvanians:



... They’ve also adopted the shrillest of scare tactics. President Joe Biden this week, berating Congress for not supporting his latest request for billions more for Ukraine, raised the specter that this disgusting new American weakness would lead to “something that we don’t seek and that we don’t have today: American troops fighting Russian troops.” In a classified briefing to Congresspeople, Biden’s defense secretary echoed that, reportedly demanding they vote more money for the Ukraine war effort or “we’ll send your uncles, cousins and sons to fight Russia.”

We Forced Ukraine to Tear Up a Signed Peace Agreement

Which brings us to the second great, damning charge against Washington: Mere days into the war, there was already a grave danger: the possible outbreak of peace. Such a development would have derailed the defense contractor gravy train. It would have also dashed the lunatic dreams of men like Raytheon board member-turned Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin that we could use this moment — this wonderfully convenient Ukraine war — to “weaken Russia.” ...

Washington’s schemers leapt into action, and actively sabotaged this promising peace agreement.

That’s right. Beltway insiders overruled the Russians and the Ukrainians, and sent them both back to work on our war. ...

Hundreds of Thousands Dead, It’s the ‘Best Money We’ve Ever Spent!’
That the White House stepped in to torpedo peace talks for its own ghoulish ends has been attested to now by everyone from top Ukrainian officials and U.S. foreign policy scholars to a former German chancellor and a former Israeli prime minister.

“The Ukrainians did not agree to peace because they were not allowed to. They first had to ask the Americans about everything they discussed,” said former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroder, in an interview with the newspaper Berliner Zeitung. Schroder participated in mediating the peace talks. He says, “My impression is that nothing could happen because everything else was decided in Washington.” ...

Half a million young Slavic men — Russian and Ukrainian — have been killed or maimed.

Millions of families have become refugees.

Our government saw this tragedy coming and welcomed it.

I suspect that Blinken and Nuland simply wanted all those Slavs to die as a revenge for the anti-Semitism their grandparents experienced.

Patrick says

What I want to address today is the burden of guilt that the United States bears for this pointless tragedy.

Sorry. But I don't have burden of guilt. I have been calling BULLSHIT about all this since Day One.

It is the Ukry Nazi Fluffers who bear this burden.

Once again, kiddies....

> Russian victory is impossible
> Russian victory unlikely
> Russia cannot be allowed to win
> Russia is winning but at what cost?
> Damn Israel!
> Russian victory was inevitable (Narrative is now here)
> Ukraine was a corrupt hellhole anyway

Zelensky is on the road to feel out the power of his blackmail currency and establish flight paths out of Ukraine. I hope he winds up someplace where they serially fleece the shit out of him and his plunder, or do a Trotsky on him. Slow burn or fast burn, as long as it's a burn.