patrick.net

WookieMan says

I stand by my claim. I never said Ukraine would win

So you engage in magical claim changing to try to finagle your way out of being caught fucking lying?

So what. No amount of your iwog-tyle bullshit is going to get your ass out of it. Not this time.

statement WookieMan is lying about him never making

at no point has a user here said Ukraine isn't fucked.

All of the support for the hopeless Ukrainians reminds me of a conversation I had with a retired Army Tank Commander. It was during the start of America's 18 year war in Afghanistan. I told him that history proves that Afghanistan's terrain makes for a nightmare militarily. Beginning with Alexander the Great, to the ruthless Red Army, no one has ever successfully conquered Afghanistan. He laughed at that and said that I had no idea what kind of power U. S. Military possessed. He summed it up by saying it would be a 'cake walk.'

I recall at the start of the Ukrainian conflict that most of the media referred to the Russian military as being 'inept,' 'backward,' 'antiquated,' 'lacking leadership,' etc. Early on, the media made it appear that Ukraine was clearly winning and that it would be only a matter of time before Russia would negotiate a settlement and go home. What they never told you was that Russia was waging a LIMITED war, and that it was not using the overwhelming Military power that was available to them. Had they done so, Kiev would have disappeared off of the map within about 2 weeks.

Many military experts are estimating that over 500,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed. That is an awful big number for such a little country. Also, since the war began, millions of people have fled Ukraine, including large numbers of fighting age men.

Ukraine is a lost cause. It is nothing other than a money making scheme for the military industrial complex, the mega-banks, the crooked politicians (including in America) getting big money deposited in secret, off-shore accounts, etc. It's also a failure for the One World Government crowd that views Russia as an impediment to their nefarious plans.

The American people have been fooled and lied to. America's border is being invaded every single day. THAT is the real border dispute that we should be addressing, instead of the failed cause of Ukraine.

RayAmerica says

Many military experts are estimating that over 500,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed.

Show me one credible link supporting this death toll.

Everything I have read, suggests Ukraine has under 100,000 deaths and up to 300,000 casualties. Huge death/casualty toll for Ukraine for sure - but less than 1/3 of what you are claiming.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/

In virtually every war in human history, attackers have 3X the death toll as the defenders. And we know that Russia doesn't value human life and has been sending meat waves like this one below getting their troops and tanks wiped out.

Ukraine knows they have a smaller military and has been much more conservative and cautious to not waste troops. One of the reasons why Ukraine pulled back on this Summer's counteroffensive because they could not run through human lives as Russia has.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBPtbNTxLL4

RayAmerica says

I recall at the start of the Ukrainian conflict that most of the media referred to the Russian military as being 'inept,' 'backward,' 'antiquated,' 'lacking leadership,' etc. Early on, the media made it appear that Ukraine was clearly winning and that it would be only a matter of time before Russia would negotiate a settlement and go home.

Total history revisionism.

At the start of the war, NO ONE thought Ukraine would hold on. Let alone hold on to recapture lost land and still be in the fight 2 years later. Certainly not the Biden administration that was offering Zelensky a flight out of the country.

It wasn't until a few weeks later where Ukraine was able to hold on that the rest of the world started seeing the total crap-ass quality of the Russian military getting all their convoys and supply lines wiped out. That was when the narrative started to turn and Western countries started to line up to provide weapons.

socal2 says

"At the start of the war, NO ONE thought Ukraine would hold on."

Russia is not fighting Ukraine. Russia fought and defeated - massively and decisively - the US and NATO in Ukraine proving that we no longer live in a unipolar world.

The_Deplorable says

Russia is not fighting Ukraine. Russia fought and defeated - massively and decisively - the US and NATO in Ukraine proving that we no longer live in a unipolar world.

Russia had a massive and decisive victory but still occupies less land than then did 2 years ago? How does that work?

There are no NATO troops fighting Russia. Ukraine has been holding their own by using moth-balled and 3rd tier weapons systems from the US and NATO and Commercial communication from SpaceX.

Russia wouldn't last 2 days against advanced US and NATO military.

Russia's monumental fuckup in Ukraine has totally exposed Russia as nothing more than a drunk gas station country with some nukes.

socal2 says

Russia had a massive and decisive victory but still occupies less land than then did 2 years ago? How does that work?

It's more than it had before. It is comprised of mostly ethnic Russians. And at least 80% of Ukraine's total GDP value is produced there.

And, Ukraine isn't getting it back. Therefore by YOUR OWN DEFINITION of a Ukraine win, Ukraine is fucked.



socal2 says

There are no NATO troops fighting Russia. Ukraine has been holding their own by using moth-balled and 3rd tier weapons systems from the US and NATO and Commercial communication from SpaceX.

Even if true, Ukraine is fucked.

socal2 says

Russia wouldn't last 2 days against advanced US and NATO military.

Yes it would. Because it would use nukes. The Great Equalizer.

socal2 says

"Russia had a massive and decisive victory but still occupies less land than then did 2 years ago? How does that work?"

Nonsense. In this war the victor gained land (land that it is now part of Russia) and the defeated (The US, NATO and Ukraine) lost land. You are confusing strategy with tactics.

"Russia wouldn't last 2 days against advanced US and NATO military."

Ignoring reality does not change the facts.

Have a nice day.

UkraineIsFucked says

Yes it would. Because it would use nukes. The Great Equalizer.

Their mostly not functioning nukes don't scare me.

Booger says

Their mostly not functioning nukes don't scare me.

Who sez they don't work?

Zekensky is building his 4th army!

UkraineIsFucked says

Zekensky is building his 4th army!

When they give that guy a gun, he is as likely to shoot his commander as he is to shoot at Russians.

Patrick says

More Russia losing.

https://warnews247.gr/viaio-stratiotiko-chtypima-tis-rosias-kata-tou-kievou-dialythike-i-aeramyna-tis-oukranikis-protevousas-v-poutin-ola-vrazoun-mesa-mou-afti-ti-stigmi/

socal2 says

Russia had a massive and decisive victory but still occupies less land than then did 2 years ago? How does that work?

Socal2,
Please answer this question:

Do you honestly believe that Russia is conducting all out war? Do you believe that Russia could have leveled Kiev, using conventional weapons and air power, had they really wanted to? Yes or no?

socal2 says

Russia wouldn't last 2 days against advanced US and NATO military.

No hyperbole there socal2. Sounds very reminiscent of what Hitler said at the start of the German invasion of Russia: "All you have to do is kick the door in and the whole rotten mess collapses." He too was convinced that the Russians had poor equipment and weren't very good fighters. As I recall, the Russian invasion didn't work out all that well for the Germans.

Apparently your memory doesn't recall the USA running for their lives out of Afghanistan after 18 years. They couldn't even defeat the rag-tag Taliban, and they're going to defeat Russia in "2 days?"

RayAmerica says

Do you honestly believe that Russia is conducting all out war? Do you believe that Russia could have leveled Kiev, using conventional weapons and air power, had they really wanted to? Yes or no?

Of course Russia could nuke Kiev.

But Russia is throwing EVERY conventional weapon system at Ukraine (even rehabilitating 50+ year old weapons systems) and still haven't gained the ground they lost last year.

FFS - Russia is having to use munitions and rockets from Iran and North Korea now.

What a pathetic shit show Russia has shown the whole world.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67888793

RayAmerica says

No hyperbole there socal2. Sounds very reminiscent of what Hitler said at the start of the German invasion of Russia: "All you have to do is kick the door in and the whole rotten mess collapses." He too was convinced that the Russians had poor equipment and weren't very good fighters. As I recall, the Russian invasion didn't work out all that well for the Germans.

Apparently your memory doesn't recall the USA running for their lives out of Afghanistan after 18 years. They couldn't even defeat the rag-tag Taliban, and they're going to defeat Russia in "2 days?"

The difference is that we have had 2 year to watch Russia in action and their military performance has gotten worse and more pathetic as they have burned through their advanced weapons and experienced troops and now resorting to meat-wave attacks and using weapons from Iran and North Korea.

Russia still doesn't control the airspace despite Ukraine having really no functioning Airforce.......until the F16's come on line in a few weeks.

IRT - Afghanistan. The US Airforce and a handful of Special Forces and the CIA toppled the Taliban half a world away winning the conventional war in a few weeks. Ditto with Iraq (3rd largest army at the time).

Counterinsurgency and Occupation are much harder. Our troops were unable to keep Muslims from killing each other and Biden tragically threw it all away with his botched withdrawal.

Russia hasn't even gotten to the hard counterinsurgency phase yet. They planned on toppling Kiev inside a month and then installing Russian shills to run the place. How is that going to work out down the line?

socal2 says

Of course Russia could nuke Kiev.

Did I say anything about Russia nuking Kiev?

No wonder you are holding to your views. You're being misinformed by the likes of that Ministry of British Propaganda, aka, the BBC, the very same ministry that helped sell the Iraq War using the lie of 'weapons of mass destruction.' You're being played socal2, and you don't even realize it.

By the way socal2, why do you think it is that Ukraine's membership in NATO has been withheld?

Surely it isn't because that would automatically throw the USA & NATO into a direct confrontation with Russia, which, according to you, 'Russia wouldn't last two days.'

socal2,

Having read your #3343 post, I can say with a great deal of confidence, you will never be hired to give the POTUS his daily brief. We'll leave that up to the professionals and experts like Col. Douglas MacGregor.

By the way, how did that much vaunted 'Spring Offensive' go for Ukraine?

https://swentr.site/news/590145-pentagon-no-money-ukraine/
https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3631953/pentagon-press-secretary-maj-gen-pat-ryder-holds-a-press-briefing/

RayAmerica says

By the way, how did that much vaunted 'Spring Offensive' go for Ukraine?

About as well as the entire Russian invasion overall. Basically both are locked in stand still trench warfare.

Russians are needlessly getting thousands of their men killed just in the past 2 months throwing human meat-waves against entrenched Ukrainian troops in Avidvika.

socal2 says

The difference is that we have had 2 year to watch Russia in action and their military performance has gotten worse and more pathetic as they have burned through their advanced weapons and experienced troops and now resorting to meat-wave attacks and using weapons from Iran and North Korea.

All wrong. They outproduce the West in tanks, artillery and drones. Speaking of drones, they produce thousands of them with IR vision sensors...something they should not be able to produce let alone in large numbers.

It is the Ukeys who are engaging in meat wave attacks against Russian fixed positions. That's why their spring offensive produced nothing but dead and crippled Ukeys.

You spew nothing but Ukey/NATO propaganda.

socal2 says

Basically both are locked in stand still trench warfare.

Ukeys being slaughtered 10:1 by Russian arty isn't trench warfare.

It's dead and crippled Ukeys.

RayAmerica says

socal2 says

Russia wouldn't last 2 days against advanced US and NATO military.

No hyperbole there socal2. Sounds very reminiscent of what Hitler said at the start of the German invasion of Russia: "All you have to do is kick the door in and the whole rotten mess collapses." He too was convinced that the Russians had poor equipment and weren't very good fighters. As I recall, the Russian invasion didn't work out all that well for the Germans.

Apparently your memory doesn't recall the USA running for their lives out of Afghanistan after 18 years. They couldn't even defeat the rag-tag Taliban, and they're going to defeat Russia in "2 days?"

The Germans were the attackers. Russia had advanced notice on a land based attack and defenses put up. Russia has yet to ever even try an overseas attack on anyone because it can't. Cuba was overhyped by the media we all bash. The USSR is no different than what is in place now. It's failing and their dumb ass decision to start war with their neighbor is beyond stupid.

Our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were stupid. Militarily we won them though. At this point Russia hasn't won anything and both sides are churning through men. By default Russia has lost. Ukraine was never going to "win" the body count and will be fucked for decades itself. Russia on the other hand might be screwed for upwards of a century. I don't really care about Ukraine.

100k job loss in the US is a big deal. We're talking 100k dead and probably another 300k maimed/wounded. As in they cannot work. Minimum. Russia cannot operate it's infrastructure without Western help. Now they don't even have the lackeys to do the dirty work. They have no engineers. People with a brain. Russia is fucked. So is Ukraine. This was already land Russia Quasi controlled anyway with planning and defensive positions in place. They've utterly failed as socal has pointed out.

Ukraine won't "win" but this has been an utter failure by Russia. The excuse making for Russia is laughable. They don't have advanced weapons. We took over two nations across the globe in months. You can hate the MIC all you want, at least be happy you have the best. We're witnessing a subpar military in real time.

UkraineIsFucked says

Ukeys being slaughtered 10:1 by Russian arty isn't trench warfare.

Dude - why are you constantly making retarded easily refuted claims? Makes you look like a total fool.

If the death toll was even close to 10:1, Ukraine would have run out of troops last year.

And Putin wouldn't be having to use immigrants in 2024 as cannon fodder.

Putin speeds up a citizenship path for foreigners who enlist in the Russian military
https://apnews.com/article/russia-putin-decree-citizenship-army-ukraine-93770fad165cc9388ec53bc71e4eb739

socal2 #3348:

By ALL accounts, even the Ukraines admit this, the Spring Offensive was a massive failure.

You really need to shut off the Ministry of Propaganda, aka, mainstream media, for your news source. They are lying 24/7 about this and just about everything else.

RayAmerica says

By ALL accounts, even the Ukraines admit this, the Spring Offensive was a massive failure.

No one I know disputes this. Ukraine knowing they can not burn through thousands of men (as Russia has been doing all along) wisely pulled back after the initial stumbles and believe are waiting on F16's which will help push Russian artillery back.

Most people like me who are against Russia's illegal fuck-up of an invasion are not claiming Ukraine is winning, we just don't believe Russia is winning either (based on Putin stated objectives at the start of the war). And since Russia is so much bigger than Ukraine and right next door, it is a monumental cock-up and international embarrassment that Russia's hasn't wrapped this thing up by now.

Yet we have (presumably?) American posters here at Patnet ludicrously pimping for Russia despite all of Russia's failures over the past 2 years.

socal2 says

waiting on F16's which will help push Russian artillery back.

Hahahahaha!

socal2 says

No one I know disputes this.

So? You hang out with others living in lalaland.

Ukraine
Is
Fucked

Russia still losing bigly:

https://t.me/gatewaypunditofficial/41475
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/01/ukrainian-post-mortems-starting-appear/

socal2 #3354

Do you actually believe that Russia couldn't level Kiev to ground level, using strictly conventional weapons and air power, if they really wanted to?

By the way, when Ukraine gets the F-16s, who is going to fly them? Do you think that those unwilling Ukrainians that are being taken off the streets might be trained as pilots? Could be, right?

See, even crippled, aged and disabled Ukrainians pulled off the streets can defeat those pathetic Russians.

https://t.me/davidavocadowolfe/116692

RayAmerica says

Do you actually believe that Russia couldn't level Kiev to ground level, using strictly conventional weapons and air power, if they really wanted to?

Not asking me, but no. 2 years in and they haven't. Isreal and Gaza has shown what you can get away with. Russia can't. They've created nothing new. They're using 70-80's tech. This is not even a naval war and they've lost whatever percent of their fleet.

Ukraine will lose. Russia will walk away with its cock tucked between its legs in a land war with a neighbor. They'll retain land they already had. There's no dispute they look like shit. Russia gets what they already had and looks like absolute dumb asses in the process of it. Indisputable.

Ceffer says

See, even crippled, aged and disabled Ukrainians pulled off the streets can defeat those pathetic Russians.

At 58 I'm sure that I could operate a drone at the front.

RayAmerica says

socal2 #3354

Do you actually believe that Russia couldn't level Kiev to ground level, using strictly conventional weapons and air power, if they really wanted to?

By the way, when Ukraine gets the F-16s, who is going to fly them? Do you think that those unwilling Ukrainians that are being taken off the streets might be trained as pilots? Could be, right?

Coming @socal2

Your bullshit is being called out, respond.

Btw...even on of Ukraine's leading propaganda arm is admitting that Ukraine Is Fucked:

UkraineIsFucked says

RayAmerica says

socal2 #3354

Do you actually believe that Russia couldn't level Kiev to ground level, using strictly conventional weapons and air power, if they really wanted to?

By the way, when Ukraine gets the F-16s, who is going to fly them? Do you think that those unwilling Ukrainians that are being taken off the streets might be trained as pilots? Could be, right?

Coming socal2

Your bullshit is being called out, respond.

Btw...even on of Ukraine's leading propaganda arm is admitting that Ukraine Is Fucked:

This was inevitable. I myself never thought this would last two years for a border war. Russia has shown it's weak. They're destroying the land they want to control while killing the men that would be needed to rebuild it. That part of Ukraine, soon to be Russia will be in turmoil for a decade at least. This isn't a win for Russia. It's stupid. There's an option not to pick a side. This whole thing was dumb from the beginning.

People gotta stop listening to colonel retard. Russia will get what they want but they've already lost. Ukraine lost. This was a proxy war and the US won. Europe won. We attacked and funded Ukraine on Ukrainian soil. Imagine if we hit Moscow? There's no war in Russia and they still can't win decisively. It's an absolute embarrassment for Russia.

We've put Russia back at least a decade militarily. Probably two or three if they last that long without collapsing, which I predict they will. They don't have the men and intelligence to run their own infrastructure.

Booger says

At 58 I'm sure that I could operate a drone at the front.

Ukraine is so desperate for anyone that has a pulse that they've put out a call to foreigners to join the fight.

I'm sure your age won't be a factor. Why not give it a shot?