patrick.net

I think that what an army was intended for ! to defend the OWN country, not go defend foreign countries, or invade them, or help them conquer other countries. The army should be more like what the coast guard is now, I think. Look out over the water for invaders, defend the borders, check on immigrants, in one sentence, everything the army is NOT doing now.

The only thing we need is a few bombers, a few SSBNs, and a few cruise missile armed attack subs. Everything else is the militia.

Patrick says

Let's say we completely eliminate the entire US military and instead arm and train all adult male US citizens to defend the continental US, Alaska, and Hawaii only (OK, maybe Puerto Rico and American Samoa as well.)

It's a lot easier to load a magazine than to charge a muzzle loader. I have done both. There are a lot of armed and trained Americans to give all those chinese soldiers that have been crossing our southern border a hard fight.

I have read that there are a lot more guns than people in the United States. Unfortunately for every Patrick that has a 20 gauge shotgun there are people with collections like this.



We still have the 2nd amendment. make sure you have enough guns and ammo to protect your family.

I agree with Patrick. We don't need an expeditionary force we just need free and prosperous citizens. With liberty and justice for all.

Patrick says

Think first of all of the savings!

Nope. We'd be paying for all the people in the MIC and military that are now unemployed with no actual skills. Unemployment would skyrocket. Restaurants would have less paying customers. Retail would get demolished. It would be a disaster for a decade plus.

It's impossible to unwind this stuff. That's why we need to pay attention to policy and especially Congress. We have to stop creating new spending yesterday. There's no point in getting rid of the military. That literally should have been the only thing the federal government does. Fuck the IRS, fuck the department of education, etc. We don't need these bloated agencies, but that again puts a shit load of people out of work.

Once created good luck pulling back. I do think everyone should own a gun though at minimum.

@Patrick

How will the MIC make money on that?

Over a trillion dollars is spent on the military a year. We don't go to war for national interests or to protect the nation, we do it so people can make money. People who join the military to "serve the nation" might have the best of intentions, but that's not what they are doing.

Our military is designed to take money from taxpayers and borrow it from future generations, and give it to the people who make war. The have zero interest in this country.

We're going to, at some point, have to accept that the US is gone.

richwicks says

Over a trillion dollars is spent on the military a year.

Trickle down isn't some right wing thing. It's economics. We'd be looking at 20-30% unemployment if we cut the military out. They lose wages and jobs. Stop going out and spending. Then retail and food loses jobs because of those job losses.

The key is HOW we use the military. I think we should dump most our bases in the Eastern Hemisphere for the most part. Just bring those troops back here. Like any job, when working remotely there's little oversight. These are do nothing jobs in say Germany. Keep them in the military, but dump the costs of these bases everywhere.

The problems in that hemisphere are not ours. Bring them back and bring back the manufacturing. We can sustain absolutely fine with Canada and Mexico as neighbors outside of our own resources. Europe always gets itself into a massive war. We shouldn't be there.

We didn't have a standing army when the country was founded, and we did just fine economically. In fact our most prosperous time ever was early 1800's. But yes, change will cause some turmoil, it always does. What's the alternative? Endless war to justify not being inconvenienced? Sounds pretty fucking selfish.

This pipe dream would be great if not for one little hitch: technology. I was allowed, under CLOSE SUPERVISION of a Marine Gunny Sgt., to fire a LAW rocket in training. Let's scale this up: can you imagine a bowling team of Joe six-pack types driving and firing the 120mm smoothbore gun on an M1 Abrams? Takes training, and then there is this little thing called the supply train. Oh, yeah, how about maintenance?

But, I guess it worked when the CIA gave MANPADS to the mujaheddin, right? (Of course, that missile is fire-and-forget, an eight-year-old can launch it.)

The United States has never had an attack on American soil since the country's founding. And no one can win a war without ground troops. But I guess you'd point to the numerous successful wars in SE Asia and Afghanistan as evidence we need tanks?

I don't have to stop a tank, just the guy driving it...

WookieMan says

We'd be looking at 20-30% unemployment if we cut the military out.

Not if we simply redirect all that overseas military spending towards US infrastructure. Roads, rails, internet, etc.

NuttBoxer says

The United States has never had an attack on American soil since the country's founding.

Well, there was the War of 1812. British burned the White House.

rocketjoe79 says

can you imagine a bowling team of Joe six-pack types driving and firing the 120mm smoothbore gun on an M1 Abrams? Takes training

Those guys would be totally into it. Training is not a problem. A lot of people would volunteer for training, and domestic defense training should be obligatory for all adult male US citizens anyway.

Patrick says

Well, there was the War of 1812. British burned the White House.

Yes, and the armed populous was unable to stop them anywhere along the British army's 100+ mile march from the Virginia coast all the way to sacking DC.

richwicks says

How will the MIC make money on that?

They won't.

HeadSet says

Yes, and the armed populous was unable to stop them anywhere along the British army's 100+ mile march from the Virginia coast all the way to sacking DC.

They they were not armed, trained, and organized sufficiently.

WookieMan says

Trickle down isn't some right wing thing. It's economics. We'd be looking at 20-30% unemployment if we cut the military out. They lose wages and jobs. Stop going out and spending. Then retail and food loses jobs because of those job losses.

They are GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES. Glorified welfare recipients that produce NOTHING. The don't serve the US public in any, conceivable way. They aren't doing a service.

You can't justify mass murder on an industrial scale, which is all war is, for economic reasons. You're insane to do this. If all you're good at is killing people, MAYBE you shouldn't be in the military, MAYBE you should be in a prison.

WookieMan says

The key is HOW we use the military. I think we should dump most our bases in the Eastern Hemisphere for the most part. Just bring those troops back here.

Look, the reason to make a nuclear weapon was to end war. The reason we make war isn't "to create jobs", it's a money laundromat. That's it.

The amount of money and resources that is PISSED AWAY on worthless war, and war is absolutely worthless, is staggering. We have all the ability right now to make a first class, stunning nation, instead, we're slipping into the 3rd world.

The 1990's was a relatively peaceful time, do you remember it? We had good employment, we had TREMENDOUS growth, and (gasp) bases were closing under Clinton. Good. We should have continued this but the FUCKING NEOCONS decided to do a false flag on 9/11 and then drag us into 20 fucking years of continuous war. Our nation attacked itself to justify endless war, and now we're headed for bankruptcy. We've been on this slow ass path for 20 over 20 years.

Our national debt goes up by over a trillion dollars a year. It doubles every 8 years. When the USSR collapsed, we finally rest, but NOPE, the MIC took over. We have the Patriot Act, our communications are all intercepted, we have political prisoners here now. We are the new USSR, and the USSR destroyed itself, in part, through endless, stupid, worthless war. If you can't see we're following in their footsteps with bullshit propaganda news 24 hours a day, censorship everywhere, our intelligence agencies setting up citizens to arrest them, openly corrupt public officials doing anything from insider trading to blatantly selling access to their office, having GEEZERS barely alive as figureheads in our government, and you see NO reflection of the USSR, you don't remember the USSR.

Patrick says

Suggestion: Entirely eliminate the US military and instead train and arm all adult male US citizens to defend US territory ONLY

The military spends out tax dollars on building "pyramids"; thousands of planes, ships, missiles, etc.

We could spend roughly 1/2 as much and things would be fine.

Let Europe and Russia go broke fighting the war in Ukraine; eventually they might figure out what to do.

Since Putin is crazy, he may win this game of wasteful spending "poker" because nobody in Russia can stop him.

I am OK with the Pentagon sending some cool hardware to Ukraine out of its huge budget; kill plenty of Russians quickly and Putin may give up eventually, but I doubt it.

WookieMan says

We'd be looking at 20-30% unemployment if we cut the military out. They lose wages and jobs.

clambo says

Since Putin is crazy,

Putin??

The US is run by madmen. They started this war. They prevented the Minsk Accords from being implemented. They armed Ukraine. They overthrew Ukraine.

Jesus, take some responsibility for the assholes that run your country for once.

Fucking 20 years of US wars that were ALL started by lies, that didn't help the US at all that have done incredible damage to the country and you say RUSSIA is run by a "madman".

You are the madman. You're in good company, most of the country is crazy and ignorant and trivial to program.

richwicks says

The US is run by madmen. They started this war.

Nope. It's the Red army who crossed the border. This is the definition of starting the war. They didn't have a single square meter of their land occupied but now are losing Kursk. Should've stayed on their territory, plain and simple.

Eric Holder says

Nope. It's the Red army who crossed the border. This is the definition of starting the war. They didn't have a single square meter of their land occupied but now are losing Kursk. Should've stayed on their territory, plain and simple.

Cut the Ukey Nazi Fluffing