patrick.net

How to repair the Boeing 737

Designed by clowns and supervised by monkeys...

https://www.aol.com/problem-identified-boeing-737-max-164512048.html

AOL still exists?! Thanks for the article, but that surprised me.

I remember seeing a documentary on Chinese in Africa. The Chinese pulled the economic hit man stuff there a lot to take over districts, towns and ports.

A Chinese guy who was there and even had African concubines mocked the blacks to their faces. The Africans were very rough on vehicles, equipment and technology and broke stuff right and left, with negligible aptitude for care, maintenance or repair. The Chinese had to do the technical maintenance and repairs after foolish destruction and misuse. The Chinese guy would laugh at them for their ineptitude and didn't hide it, even when they glared at him like they wanted to chop him up with machetes. I sometimes wonder if that Chinese guy eventually did wind up in a boiling pot somewhere.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/congressman-sold-boeing-stock-hours-doj-probe-was-announced

The_Deplorable says

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/congressman-sold-boeing-stock-hours-doj-probe-was-announced

Trust me: they know exactly what dumpster they dropped his body in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA44FFi95PA

The_Deplorable says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA44FFi95PA

Lol... it was a family friend who barely saw him. Not his spouse. Not his kids. My BIL never told anyone he'd commit suicide. He seemed like he loved life, had two boys, blah blah blah. He killed himself.

My other BIL drank himself to death his whole life because he didn't make it to the MLB (baseball). We all thought it was water, but it was vodka. People end their lives differently.

Witnessed other acquaintances basically kill themselves. One woman just had a child with my friend.

Fact is you don't talk about suicide unless you contemplated doing the act. I'd be too much of a coward and pussy to do it. It's not even about family. You have to have a certain part in your brain that is hard to decipher to kill yourself.

And I'll keep going back to this. The airlines are the ones in charge of maintenance. This thread is convoluting work place safety with the actual end product. The planes are safe and 99% of the aviation mechanics are good. These designs have been around for decades with minimal issues and the safest form of transportation. Still don't get what is so hard to comprehend here. Is everyone here shorting Boeing or something? I have no financial stake, even in retirement funds. It's just logic.

WookieMan says

And I'll keep going back to this. The airlines are the ones in charge of maintenance.

He was alleging that defective products were being made.

If it's just a question of maintenance, we'll find out in time. We just have to wait for more accidents that involved primarily Boeing.

richwicks says

He was alleging that defective products were being made.

If it's just a question of maintenance, we'll find out in time. We just have to wait for more accidents that involved primarily Boeing.

Defective what? Engines are on the engine maker and airline techs. They use proven landing gear from decades of engineering. Wings, flaps have all been the same for decades. It's maintenance and pilot inspection. I've flown right seat multiple times. No expert but I know enough. I have an FAA license.

You have a door fly off due to poor maintenance and all a sudden a "whistleblower" comes out of the wood work. Has no one thought about it being a Airbus plant and he knew he was going to get caught and killed himself? I don't care what the dude said to a friend of his mom's that he wouldn't commit suicide. I don't get why people bite on shit like this...

WookieMan says

Defective what?

A door that blew off the plane, for example.

Just wait. We'll see if they have been doing defective manufacturing or not.

WookieMan says

You have a door fly off due to poor maintenance

What exactly do you have to maintain on a door? The door is designed so that when the cabin is pressurized, it cannot open.

As I said, we'll see if this is a maintenance problem or a manufacturing problem in time. Just wait.

It's a required inspection. Damn near every inch of an aircraft has an annual inspection. It should have been spotted by the airline. Fact is the airline ordered the plane in that format. It's on them to manage that feature that is useless in the first place. They knew what they ordered. They just assumed it was sealed likely and didn't check it. It wasn't even a usable emergency exit door.

Fact is they didn't want to take off the interior panel to inspect it. Between turbulence and hard landings, shit can break. There's flight data on everything. No one was checking it.

If I was off roading in our 4-Runner all the time I'd check the tires, suspension, body, engine frequently. Things break on even the best engineered stuff. You have to maintain it as the user. But hey, a guy kills himself and somehow all the recent issues are not human error in operations and maintenance, but a "whistleblower" situation. Lol.

WookieMan says

but a "whistleblower" situation. Lol.

As I have said, repeatedly, we'll find out in time.

WookieMan says

"It's a required inspection. Damn near every inch of an aircraft has an annual
inspection. It should have been spotted by the airline."

Nonsense. The incident - the MAX jet door that blew out - is a manufacturing defect because it
was not bolted down. And these bolts are not accessible to maintenance.

Bottom line: Boeing airplanes are not safe to fly. Boeing lost control of the manufacturing process
because they fired their engineers and MBAs cannot design and manufacture airplanes.

WookieMan says

"Lol... it was a family friend who barely saw him."

Irrelevant. What matters is that he verbalized this "if anything happens to me, it’s not suicide."

"After family friend Jennifer asked Barnett if he was concerned for his safety, the former quality
manager was emphatic. "Aren’t you scared?" asked Jennifer. "And he said, ‘No, I ain’t scared, but if
anything happens to me, it’s not suicide.'"

"I know that he did not commit suicide. There’s no way. He loved life too much. He loved his family too
much. He loved his brothers too much to put them through what they’re going through right now..."
Barnett’s attorneys said they’re still prepared to go forward with the case in June."

According to his attorneys, "Barnett had "exposed very serious safety problems with the Boeing 787
Dreamliner and was retaliated against and subjected to a hostile work environment" and was in the
middle of a legal deposition against Boeing.

"He was in very good spirits and really looking forward to putting this phase of his life behind him and
moving on. We didn’t see any indication he would take his own life. No one can believe it," said the attorneys."

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/boeing-whistleblower-if-anything-happens-me-its-not-suicide

Another Boeing Incident

"Earlier this week, at least 50 people were hurt when a LATAM Airlines Boeing 787 Dreamliner
suddenly nosedived. LATAM blamed the mid-air incident on a "technical event" without
providing further details..."

Reportedly, the pilot told one of the passengers that "Every display went blank in the cockpit
for 20 seconds..."

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/believable-wsj-attributes-latam-boeing-787s-sudden-nosedive-motorized-pilot-seat-mishap

WookieMan says

Lol... it was a family friend who barely saw him. Not his spouse. Not his kids. My BIL never told anyone he'd commit suicide. He seemed like he loved life, had two boys, blah blah blah. He killed himself.

Dude, we know, from your posts, that you love to travel by air. And we know, from your posts, that you're a loyal customer of Southwest which has all Boeing 737, including MAX.

You don't have to reflexively defend The Boeing Corporation and blame everyone else for the recent issues to enjoy the travel.

You keep harping on the mature, unchanged airframe design for the 737. The mature airframe design was not the root cause of the problems.

The root cause was the takeover in previous decades of the company's top management by people who were more focused on the Stock Price than engineering excellence and public safety. This is well documented by many who know a whole lot more about aviation and aerospace manufacturing than do any of us on patrick.net (including you).

The MAX is a deadly macrocosm of what the Non-Engineering, Stock-Price-Focused management did to the formerly run by Engineering-Excellence-Focused management company. The Stock-Price-Focused management was paranoid about losing face and losing orders to the neo 321 so they rushed through a cost-reduction Frankenstein of oversized engines onto a 1960's airplane with modifications that they dishonestly weren't forthcoming about with customers.

You can read about this crap, it's all over the media. There's also good summary in the documentary TV show "Downfall".

I am surprised that our engineer friend (yours truly here is also an engineer, as is Patrick, - we've had careers in engineering, - have you?) Richwiks did not discuss all the outsourcing of software to underpaid, exploited "coders" in India who may have been pressured, like folks on the factory floors in the US were pressured, to deliver to deadlines and at or below cost.

Get over it, bro. It's OK to be a flights-travel fanboy and even a Southwest Airlines fanboy without reflexively defending The Boeing Corporation.

The_Deplorable says

Nonsense. The incident - the MAX jet door that blew out - is a manufacturing defect because it
was not bolted down. And these bolts are not accessible to maintenance.

Nope. Already posted a video in this thread or the other with an explanation from someone that knows more than you or I. Every plane undergoes an annual inspection every year and an overhaul after so many hours and/or years. All 737 Max jets in service were delivered years ago. Again, it's an annual inspection. The airlines didn't do that part of the inspection. It wasn't an emergency exit. It was for future resale.

You have to lift the door 1-1/2" to even pull it off. Cabin was pressurized. Might have been a consistently turbulent route or shitty pilots with rough landings. You're going from A to Z. Skipping even A to B to even understand any of it. Read up on aviation. It's not the plane and they're 100% safe to fly.

Get articles from people that are pilots and know aviation. Zerohedge is that last place I'd go for aviation reporting or anything actually.

Also funny how most the issues are happening with foreign pilots. I'll be on a Max Tuesday with my wife and kids. My wife is flying home on one in 3 hours. I know the plane. Alaska airlines fucked up. The door cannot come off unless tampered with. That's not opinion. Fact. Already posted it. Someone probably did the annual and may have fucked up when they inspected it. There are thousands of 737 flights per day. If it were a flaw it would be happening daily. It happened once likely due to the airline.

Not sure what's not to understand. Also it was 100% a suicide. You don't talk about suicide unless you're contemplating it. He was setting up for being wrong. It was after his first testimony and he killed himself. Again, I've experienced this. I've talked to multiple therapist about it. My life ain't glorious. He was 100% suicidal based on the evidence. No one killed him. And Rich, it's not a wait and see.

These are planes with HUGE track records. The tweaks in engineering are not popping doors off. That's why there no new model in the pipeline. Just variations and adjustments. Doors would have been flying off for decades by your logic deplorable. It happened once....

The_Deplorable says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA44FFi95PA

https://slaynews.com/news/boeing-whistleblower-warned-before-death-not-suicide/

And now, a close family friend of Barnett disclosed the haunting premonition he made before his untimely death.

In a shocking revelation to ABC News, Jennifer, whose mother has been lifelong friends with Barnett’s mom, shared that Barnett had expressed concerns about being “suicided.”

He feared that he would be murdered in a scenario falsely framed as suicide.

Maybe Barnett was trying to expose some kind of inside gang of saboteurs.

FischerKing
@FischerKing64
I can explain Boeing quickly. It attained a market dominant position in the USA following the merger with McDonnell Douglas. This made it lazy. It then got new management, which emphasized financial chicanery over top flight engineering, symbolized in its move of its corporate HQ from Seattle to Chicago. The financial geniuses then worked to break the union, shift production away from its trained Seattle work force to places like South Carolina, and outsource production of most plane components abroad - the American work force was left to assemble all these disparate parts rather than produce them here. Software was also outsourced. The end result was lower quality of aircraft, delays in development and production, and even fatalities from crashes. But rest assured the management in Chicago did very well.

Meanwhile, by focusing on MBAs and JDs rather than engineers, top management fell victim to all the pathologies coming out of top schools. This is where the DEI nonsense comes from, which would have been much harder to impose if management were more focused on building good planes than stock buybacks. So the outsourcing, cost cutting, diminishing the original work force - all this is now working in tandem with the sort of diversity/DEI dysfunction visible all over corporate America. It’s a feedback loop that could be fatal to Boeing, and has already been fatal to someone airline passengers.

This is basically it. It’s not an elaborate conspiracy. It’s a tale of greed and dysfunction that you can see all over America.

https://x.com/FischerKing64/status/1768750379242807425?s=20

80% of our MIC problems would be solved by having Lockheed and Martin, Boeing and McDonnell Douglas. Split 'em up.

B.A.C.A.H. says

"The mature airframe design was not the root cause of the problems."

You are ignoring the fact that during the assembly process Boeing failed to install four bolts and four
nuts on this "mature and unchanged airframe" of yours. As a result, a panel on the fuselage blew
off during the Alaska Airlines flight.

In other words, Boeing delivered an unsafe brand new plane to Alaska Airlines.

If you do not follow the design steps then the end result is an unsafe airplane and the fact that it is
a "mature, unchanged airframe design" is irrelevant.

B.A.C.A.H. says

"Dude, we know, from your posts, that you love to travel by air. And we know, from your posts, that you're a loyal customer of Southwest which has all Boeing 737, including MAX."

No you don't know because I never said that.

"You don't have to reflexively defend The Boeing Corporation and blame everyone else for the recent issues to enjoy the travel."

I never defended Boeing.

Have a nice day.

Lol. The engineering is so poor that they can land without an engine,door, exterior panel and NO ONE DIES!!! Maybe think about it before typing and research aviation. Boeing and American pilots have the safest transportation record on the planet.

The_Deplorable says

No you don't know because I never said that.

"You don't have to reflexively defend The Boeing Corporation and blame everyone else for the recent issues to enjoy the travel."

I never defended Boeing.

Have a nice day.

Chill out. My comments were directed at Wookie whose "quote" was inside of your quote. I will edit my comment so it's clear to whom I was directing my remark.

Have a nice day.

B.A.C.A.H. says

You don't have to reflexively defend The Boeing Corporation and blame everyone else for the recent issues to enjoy the travel.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall at this point. The AIRLINES are in charge of the plane once they take ownership. The pilots look over them EVERY flight. This is end user errors. For all you engineers it is frankly a basic concept. YOU catch issues if under warranty and call them out. That's not what's happening. These are 5 year old planes. It's on the airline and sure they could work with Boeing on issues, but it's the airline that needs to maintain their fleet.

This has nothing to do with my flying. I could stop flying tomorrow and be miserable just sitting in the same place. That's fun. Most you cats sound miserable. I'll enjoy my travels. I'll enjoy the 737 that is completely safe. Driving a car is exponentially more dangerous and has more engineering fuck ups.

But hey, a guy off's himself and a conspiracy theory is created... Brilliant.

WookieMan says

"For all you engineers it is frankly a basic concept. YOU catch issues if under
warranty and call them out."

In science we follow the data WookieMan. In this case the data says that the 737 has very
serious safety problems and needs to be recalled. It is not that complicated.

And stepping back and looking at the big picture, Boeing has a major problem with safety.

The_Deplorable says

In science we follow the data WookieMan. In this case the data says that the 737 has very
serious safety problems and needs to be recalled. It is not that complicated.

What safety problems? Name one that wasn't on airline negligence? Just one. No one has yet.

You guys clearly don't know anyone in the insurance industry or law. Stick to science I guess. If an employee changes a tire on an aircraft and doesn't do it right and it falls off, how is that Boeings fault.

The logic is not there. It's not scientific. It's retarded.

"In science we follow the data WookieMan. In this case the data says that the 737 has very
serious safety problems and needs to be recalled. It is not that complicated."

WookieMan says

"What safety problems? Name one that wasn't on airline negligence? Just one.
No one has yet."

I did. During the assembly process Boeing failed to install four bolts and four nuts on the fuselage.
As a result, the fuselage blew off during the Alaska Airlines flight. In other words, Boeing delivered
an unsafe brand new plane to Alaska Airlines.

Did you expect Alaska Airlines to rebuild the plane for Boeing? And United? And Ameriacn? And
Continental? And Delta? And... And...

WookieMan says

"If an employee changes a tire on an aircraft and doesn't do it right and it falls
off, how is that Boeings fault. The logic is not there. It's not scientific. It's retarded."

Your argument is incoherent. Changing a tire is a maintenance issue. Failing to assemble the
fuselage by not bolting it down is a manufacturing issue.