patrick.net

Well, you can see their owners periodically cull them and 'evolve' them on purpose to keep them 'special' and separate. They hate integrated and acclimated deviants, and a lot of the harvesting of the account holders has been aimed at wanderers from the fold, or non compliants.

However, religions in general make their adherents 'special and separate' and use this premise to dehumanize non members, so that's kind of standard operating procedure for religions.

Also, the dehumanization will often be a rallying cry to persecute and murder non adherents. That also is a standard operating procedure of religions. Fanaticism and obedience are the goals.

Getting close to the profound, I don't have time to offer much until a bit. I have a "synthesis" explanation to offer once I can articulate (a task in itself). Tag for now.

Patrick says

in other words, holiness is a rejection of all other groups. This inevitably leads to hostility against the Jews, which further increases the separation in a feedback loop.

Agreed. And some of it is off putting. Can think of a example of what you're saying ---

Remember Independence Day, and the General says "I'm not Jewish" and the Rabbi says "Nobody's Perfect".

Maybe the way it was said wasn't the right tone, but I was kind of Pissed off about it, like it was unnecessary snobby shit at the wrong time.

Just a thought.

As a Believer, it's also part of the Hardening of Hearts UNTIL... the end. Compare other mysteries: First Shall Be Last, and Prodigal Son.

Ceffer says

However, religions in general make their adherents 'special and separate' and use this premise to dehumanize non members, so that's kind of standard operating procedure for religions.

True, but what's different about Judaism is the discouragement of conversion to it.

It's a particular religion for a certain group of people, not a universal one. You can convert, but it's deliberately made difficult.

I find it interesting that the Armenian Orthodox Church maintains a separation from other Orthodox churches over fairly minor theological differences. This makes Armenian Orthodoxy a particular religion for a certain group of people, the Armenians. And they also have a history of genocide.

Careful, Patrick. Next thing you know there will be snipers on the roof around you...

I had a Jewish girlfriend who was always talking as if she were a foreigner; it was weird.
We had some Jewish classmates in junior high who instead of playing sports after school would go to "Hebrew School".
Most Jews I've known talk as if they were not American, rather Jewish.

If a religion discourages conversion to it - this is considered bad by the outsiders? Why? Do you want to convert to that specific religion? If not, why do you GAF? If yes, there is a way, apparently. Ivanka did.

What do you think about religion which encourages conversion, sometimes with coersive methods? Like it, planning to convert or waiting to be forced?

I'm not saying it's bad to discourage conversion, only that it alienates people.

Just explaining the mechanics of anti-Semitism.

Patrick says

I find it interesting that the Armenian Orthodox Church maintains a separation from other Orthodox churches over fairly minor theological differences. This makes Armenian Orthodoxy a particular religion for a certain group of people, the Armenians. And they also have a history of genocide.

Fun Fact: They were also grossly overrepresented in the Soviet Union in leadership positions to the degree that Blacks are overrepresented in the NBA. To the same degree of the Jews.

And tend to be outspoken leftists, like Anita SarkeesIAN and Ana KasparIAN and Cherilyn SarkisIAN ("Cher"), "degenerates" like KardashIAN or Christy CanYON (real name: Melissa BardizbanIAN)

Czars of Russia, Turks, almost all other Caucasian groups, actively dislike Armenians and hold them to be untrustworthy. Armenians were considered to be "Natural Enemies of the State" in 19th Century Czarist Russia.

And to maintain some seperation between themselves and society moreso than other groups.

Their attempts to create or maintain their own ethnos state are constantly undermined and delegitimized.

Their Genocide is constantly denied by those who ordered it and the ethnicity that helped in it. (Turkish Nationalists, Kurds = Nazis, Ukrainians)

And they change their names to fool the Host society, those Armenian Parasites!!! ;)

Also fun fact: Latvians were almost half of the 1930s NKVD officers, but only 1% of the USSR population.

What is the answer to the AQ (Armenian Question?)

The parallels are amazing!

Patrick says

I'm not saying it's bad to discourage conversion, only that it alienates people.

Again, why? I can't relate to any of it. I don't want to convert, don't envy these who was born or converted into it. I feel absolute indifference to Judaism as a religion.

AmericanKulak says

And tend to be outspoken leftists, like Anita SarkeesIAN and Ana KasparIAN and Cherilyn SarkisIAN ("Cher"), "degenerates" like KardashIAN or Christy CanYON (real name: Melissa BardizbanIAN)

Add to this list Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley from KISS (I don't know their real "secret names").

RWSGFY says

Again, why?

It's fundamental human psychology.

Maybe you don't care if you're excluded from some club, but what if that club were 2% of the population but owned 30% of the wealth? Even then, that's not necessarily a reason for hatred. The Parsis of India are a much smaller and even more exclusive minority with a similar sized stake in the Indian economy, yet they are not hated. I think that's because Parsis go out of their way to get along and be liked. There are supposedly many Indian charities and hospitals funded by Parsis.

But Judaism is tuned in the opposite direction, with active dislike for the majority culture. People are people so it's not a hard and fast rule, but because I look very goyish and yet have some Jewish background, I'm tuned to notice that dislike and I do see it.

So there's a kind of ping-pong effect between anti-Semitism and anti-goyism, which are mirror images of each other in a way, and amplify each other. But I think it all starts from the carefully tended separation between Jews and non-Jews which is the core religious principle of Judaism.

Maybe it's just evolution. The Jews that are fans of the majority culture don't remain Jews very long, as their children and grandchildren intermarry.

stereotomy says

Add to this list Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley from KISS (I don't know their real "secret names").

Gene is Chaim Weitz (not sure of the last name). Stanley, similar.

Throw in Neil Diamond or Issur Danielovitch or Jeffrey Hyman... and a thousand other examples

Another point of similarity for a small ethnic group that punches way above it's weight and has it's own religion/denomination.

Patrick says

Maybe it's just evolution. The Jews that are fans of the majority culture don't remain Jews very long, as their children and grandchildren intermarry.

Oops.

Right, I think there are huge economic benefits to being part of a very tight and very closed ethnic group which is inclined toward commerce.

I actually got this idea from Thomas Sowell many years ago while leafing through one of his books in a bookstore. He pointed out that the same pattern happens over and over:

- the Chinese in SE Asia dominate commerce there and periodically get massacred
- the Indians in Uganda dominated commerce there until they were kicked out
- the Igbo in Nigeria dominated commerce there and were massacred during the Biafran War in the 1960's

Patrick says

I think that's because Parsis go out of their way to get along and be liked. There are supposedly many Indian charities and hospitals funded by Parsis.

I dunno on this one, there are a shitton of hospitals, museums, charities opened by Jews, from the Arsht Arts Center in Miami to YMCAs all over the country (thanks to Julius Rosenwald of Sears who matched donations) despite not being Christian himself. That was back in the day when the Y wasn't woke like today.

EDIT: Although almost all charities are woke today. This is because letting kids get radicalized and adopt Internalized Leftism in College produces a generation that when it enters an institution, transforms it.

Patrick says

- the Indians in Uganda dominated commerce there until they were kicked out

Indians are regretting their support of ANC in South Africa now for this very reason.

Patrick says

Right, I think there are huge economic benefits to being part of a very tight and very closed ethnic group which is inclined toward commerce.

Obligatory:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CHYD83-sogE&pp=ygUUZG91ZyB0aGUgaGVhZCBqZXdpc2g%3D

PS. So you do want to convert? 🙃

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/yiddish-ashkenazi-woodworth

Weinreich’s first innovation in the History was to argue, against apparent common sense and abundant personal experience, that Yiddish was formed not through isolation but through constant interaction combined with a chosen separateness. The walled-off ghettos of 18th-century European cities, although they preserved Yiddish, were not the environment that gave it life. Weinreich’s innovation was to argue that “Jewish otherness”—and the language that goes with it—“cannot be the result of ‘exclusion’; it is not even the result of exile.”

Where others had persistently told the story of confinement, prejudice, and persecution, Weinreich spoke of independence, self-government, selfassertion, and community building. It was undeniable that “without communal separateness there is no separate language,” and so the separateness of the Ashkenazi community was necessary for Yiddish to arise. But the modern explanation for that separateness, according to Weinreich, got the story exactly backward. Nineteenth-century Jewish activists, demanding rights of citizenship, created the story that the Jews had been locked in ghettos since the Middle Ages, “and thus excluded from society at large and its intellectual development; in this forced isolation”—an influential Jewish assimilationist argued—“both their mode of life in general and their language in particular became corrupted.” ...

For Weinreich, based on both the linguistic and historical evidence, there could be no doubt that up until the 18th century “the Jews wanted to be by themselves. … Separate residence (strange as this may appear in the light of present Jewish and general conceptions of rights) was part of the privileges granted the Jews at their own request” so they could worship together; provide for their own slaughterhouse, bathhouse, cemetery, and social halls; study together; run their own rabbinic courts; supervise tax collection; and when necessary, protect themselves from attacks.

Archeology supports this part of Weinreich’s argument. Befuddled tour guides in Prague struggle to explain why, given the expectation of exclusion of Jews, the city’s famous Jewish quarter, Josefov, is so central to the old town. (One misguided explanation is that the Jews were given land near the river that was too marshy for the other city inhabitants, prone to flooding and disease-bearing miasmas.) But Prague’s Josefov is not an isolated case—it is typical. Weinreich’s point is that exclusion could also be exclusivity; restrictions also came with designated privileges. In Trier, Mainz, Aachen, Cologne, Worms, and more than 100 medieval towns in Central Europe, the Jewish district was both a central and a prime location, close to the economic heart of the city. The German Bishop Rüdiger, granting a charter of the city of Speyer in 1084 wrote, “I thought that I would increase the glory of our city a thousandfold if I were to include Jews.”

Voltaire, in his Dictionary, wrote:

The Jews are an ignorant and barbarous people, who have long united the most sordid avarice with the most detestable superstition and the most invincible hatred for every people by whom they are tolerated and enriched.

Let's see. Objectively speaking, it doesn't make any sense to call Jews ignorant or barbarous.

Sordid avarice? Well, Sam Bankman-Fried is just one of a very long line of Jews doing similar things. There does seem to be a pattern there, though it's not unique to Jews. There is even a saying in Yiddish, "Don't waste your time suspecting a Jew. He is certainly a thief."

Superstition? No more than other religions.

Hatred for other peoples? I do think dislike for and separation from outsiders is the core of Judaism as well as of Islam. But the Muslims get angry and want to kill you for not joining them, while the Jews just never invite you to join. In any case, all minority ethnic religions have to encourage a dislike of outsiders or they will rapidly be assimilated and cease to exist as a distinct group. It's a kind of evolutionary selection.