patrick.net

The review of the book shows Zinn is already dripping with victimization polemics, postmodernism and fire branding, so it might be hard to wade through his book.

view pdf

AmericanKulak says

You only get to choose one, there is no fourth option. And Nature Abhors a vacuum, so 'expose them all' will still result in one being preferred.

You are so mean. I would only choose Churchill on the basis of ignorant prejudicial cultural leanings, but basically, gag.

We must reject incoherent framing, for starters (“choose only one!”)

Look, the liberal post-WW2 consensus has led us to a white-bad-because-whites-were-nazis and should be racially mixed into oblivion situation. No matter what side your grandfathers fought for, you are equally culpable as the “whiteness” cannot be purged. Redemption comes only with self-abnegation. What a religion!

The foundational myths of Europeans are poisoned by the WW2 story, and if its framing is incorrect, one might want to investigate it. Perhaps reconsider a moment that Hitler didn’t invade Poland proper, just retook lands Germany has held for hundreds of years. That while ample evidence exists for concentration camps, reports of systematic killing came only from Soviet-liberated camps. Interesting. Enigma code breaking in 1941 had no transmissions of killing camps either. Nuremberg confessions were obtained under torture, including crushed genitals. Huh, the story might need updating eh?

goofus says

Huh, the story might need updating eh?

Yes, but you might be gang stalked, strung up with electrodes attached to your genitals, and your family threatened. Of course, all that pedo stuff will strangely show up on your computer when the FBI is breaking down your door with their warrants, and you'll be financially destroyed by lawfare and prison, anyway.

It's just so Vatican to Inquisition anybody who deviates from manufactured history of the 'victors'.

The truth is so self-evident that opposing views need censorship, jail time, and .. electrodes. Yikes, but I think we’re at the point where “your silence will not protect you.” Going along to get along gets the gulag too.

goofus says

Perhaps reconsider a moment that Hitler didn’t invade Poland proper, just retook lands Germany has held for hundreds of years.

Who came to the Gates of Vienna to drive off the Turks? The Winged Hussars of Poland in 1685, almost 250 years before any Country of Germany existed.

Germany didn't exist until the middle of the 19th Century.

The Teutonic Order disappeared centuries before Germany came into existence.

And in fact, it was the Prussia Confederacy of Cities that ASKED the King Casimir IV to incorporate them into the Kingdom of Poland, which started the 1400s war that basically broke the Teutonic and Livonian Orders.

The Corridor would result in the Poles being at the total Mercy of Germany, since all world trade access would have to go through Germany, and that corridor was overwhelmingly Polish in ethnicity.

Earlier I saw Ribbentropp's final offer in August for the Corridor: Every German speaker who was born or ever at any time lived in the Corridor could vote in a Plebescite to go back to Germany, but no Pole born after 1918 and no Jews. Almost 70% of the Corridor identified as a Polish ethnic; so this was the Nazi "Heads I invade, Tails I manufacture all the ballots I need back in Germany or Nazi-controlled local government in Danzig from alleged former German Corridor dwellers" Democratic Party trick.

And Czechoslovakia? How about the Netherlands? Is it okay to invade a neutral and firebomb Rotterdam to ashes in 1940?

It's funny, those who complain about post-war US intervention love to ignore the Nazi invasions of the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemborg, Denmark, etc. without the least fig leaf of a causus belli. Or that Hitler took far more than just the Sudentenland.

It's all bullshit anyway, since Hitler already made his mind up to invade and wanted the Liebensraum.

The real tragedy of Munich was that the generals were about to coup him to prevent a war, then cowardly Chamberlain stole their reason by agreeing to obliterate Czechoslovakia.

AmericanKulak says

Churchill
Hitler
Mao

Which one would you promote?

Churchill.
1) He hated Hindus and loved Sikhs. He hated both Hitler and Hitler's Hindus.
2) He was quite sensible guy and not in favor of oppression and also motivated British to fight Nazis.

Hitlers Hindus:
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2017-12-14/ty-article/hitlers-hindus-indias-nazi-loving-nationalists-on-the-rise/0000017f-f880-d460-afff-fbe61fe20000
Opinion | Hitler’s Hindus: The Rise and Rise of India’s Nazi-loving Nationalists

The ‘Hitler’s Den’ pool parlor that shocked me on a round-India trip 10 years ago was no outlier. Admiration for Nazism – often reframed with a genocidal hatred for Muslims – is rampant in the Hindu nationalist camp, which has never been as mainstream as it is now

goofus says

We must reject incoherent framing, for starters (“choose only one!”)

Look, the liberal post-WW2 consensus has led us to a white-bad-because-whites-were-nazis and should be racially mixed into oblivion situation. No matter what side your grandfathers fought for, you are equally culpable as the “whiteness” cannot be purged. Redemption comes only with self-abnegation. What a religion!

If you kill all the heroes, only villains remain.

If any kid who went to college or HS in the last 20-25 years learned anything, it was Jefferson-bad Slave-Owner, Churchill-bad British Imperialist, yay Che and yay Foucault!

Hell, a third of Boomers feel that way. The Greatest are Gone, almost none remain.

Churchill was a helluva of pro-White guy, he had no problems saying Anglos were the Best and a force for Good in the world. Right down to the English language being the best of all languages. Whereas Mao saw the Whites as capitalist expoiters, and Hitler thought half of Europe (Slavs) was untermensch good only if reduced to a small number of serfs for Aryan overlords, and regretted Christianity and wished Germans to be Zen-Shinto or Muslim, however much 1488 tries to stay deliberately ignorant of his own words.

goofus says

The truth is so self-evident that opposing views need censorship, jail time, and .. electrodes. Yikes, but I think we’re at the point where “your silence will not protect you.” Going along to get along gets the gulag too.

The best thing about X under Elon is instead of being "Cool, silenced voices" both the Establishment, the Far Left, and the Socialist Right is getting creamed by community notes. I loved that Darryl Cooper was on Tucker. He got actually democratically-community noted on just about every sneer he tried to put in there.

Ironically, the Claremont Institute that Cooper writes for occasionally, was founded by big time Churchill Fans, one of whom was President of Hillsdale.

Let's also remember that Tojo and Hitler declared war on the US, and US trade with Britain was far more important than trade with autarkical Germany. US-China trade also was very important. And Ford had no problem building factories on contract from Lenin and Stalin.

AmericanKulak says

Let's also remember that Tojo and Hitler declared war on the US, and US trade with Britain was far more important than trade with autarkical Germany.

Japan was maneuvered into attacking us due to FDR's crippling embargoes of the island nation. Japan was used as the 'back door' into the European War, which the American people were dead set against. The reason Hitler, to FDR's feigned 'surprise,' declared war on America after Pearl Harbor was his war treaty with Japan & Italy called the Tri-Partite Pact. In every way imaginable, FDR was a war criminal that was the primary cause for America's entry into WW II, a war that benefitted the Soviet Union, which ended up controlling Eastern Europe with an iron fist for decades.

A little food for thought on Japan attacking Pearl Harbor

How U.S. Economic Warfare Provoked Japan’s Attack on Pearl Harbor
By ROBERT HIGGS
Ask a typical American how the United States got into World War II, and he will almost certainly tell you that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the Americans fought back. Ask him why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, and he will probably need some time to gather his thoughts. He might say that the Japanese were aggressive militarists who wanted to take over the world, or at least the Asia-Pacific part of it. Ask him what the United States did to provoke the Japanese, and he will probably say that the Americans did nothing: we were just minding our own business when the crazy Japanese, completely without justification, mounted a sneak attack on us, catching us totally by surprise in Hawaii on December 7, 1941.

You can’t blame him much. For more than 60 years such beliefs have constituted the generally accepted view among Americans, the one taught in schools and depicted in movies—what “every schoolboy knows.” Unfortunately, this orthodox view is a tissue of misconceptions. Don’t bother to ask the typical American what U.S. economic warfare had to do with provoking the Japanese to mount their attack, because he won’t know. Indeed, he will have no idea what you are talking about.

In the late nineteenth century, Japan’s economy began to grow and to industrialize rapidly. Because Japan has few natural resources, many of the burgeoning industries had to rely on imported raw materials, such as coal, iron ore or steel scrap, tin, copper, bauxite, rubber, and petroleum. Without access to such imports, many of which came from the United States or from European colonies in southeast Asia, Japan’s industrial economy would have ground to a halt. By engaging in international trade, however, the Japanese had built a moderately advanced industrial economy by 1941.

At the same time, they also built a military-industrial complex to support an increasingly powerful army and navy. These armed forces allowed Japan to project its power into various places in the Pacific and east Asia, including Korea and northern China, much as the United States used its growing industrial might to equip armed forces that projected U.S. power into the Caribbean and Latin America, and even as far away as the Philippine Islands.

When Franklin D. Roosevelt became president in 1933, the U.S. government fell under the control of a man who disliked the Japanese and harbored a romantic affection for the Chinese because, some writers have speculated, Roosevelt’s ancestors had made money in the China trade.[1] Roosevelt also disliked the Germans (and of course Adolf Hitler), and he tended to favor the British in his personal relations and in world affairs. He did not pay much attention to foreign policy, however, until his New Deal began to peter out in 1937. Afterward, he relied heavily on foreign policy to fulfill his political ambitions, including his desire for reelection to an unprecedented third term.

When Germany began to rearm and to seek Lebensraum aggressively in the late 1930s, the Roosevelt administration cooperated closely with the British and the French in measures to oppose German expansion. After World War II commenced in 1939, this U.S. assistance grew ever greater and included such measures as the so-called destroyer deal and the deceptively named Lend-Lease program. In anticipation of U.S. entry into the war, British and U.S. military staffs secretly formulated plans for joint operations. U.S. forces sought to create a war-justifying incident by cooperating with the British navy in attacks on German U-boats in the north Atlantic, but Hitler refused to take the bait, thus denying Roosevelt the pretext he craved for making the United States a full-fledged, declared belligerent—an end that the great majority of Americans opposed.

In June 1940, Henry L. Stimson, who had been secretary of war under Taft and secretary of state under Hoover, became secretary of war again. Stimson was a lion of the Anglophile, northeastern upper crust and no friend of the Japanese. In support of the so-called Open Door Policy for China, Stimson favored the use of economic sanctions to obstruct Japan’s advance in Asia. Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau and Interior Secretary Harold Ickes vigorously endorsed this policy. Roosevelt hoped that such sanctions would goad the Japanese into making a rash mistake by launching a war against the United States, which would bring in Germany because Japan and Germany were allied.

Accordingly, the Roosevelt administration, while curtly dismissing Japanese diplomatic overtures to harmonize relations, imposed a series of increasingly stringent economic sanctions on Japan. In 1939 the United States terminated the 1911 commercial treaty with Japan. “On July 2, 1940, Roosevelt signed the Export Control Act, authorizing the President to license or prohibit the export of essential defense materials.” Under this authority, “[o]n July 31, exports of aviation motor fuels and lubricants and No. 1 heavy melting iron and steel scrap were restricted.” Next, in a move aimed at Japan, Roosevelt slapped an embargo, effective October 16, “on all exports of scrap iron and steel to destinations other than Britain and the nations of the Western Hemisphere.” Finally, on July 26, 1941, Roosevelt “froze Japanese assets in the United States, thus bringing commercial relations between the nations to an effective end. One week later Roosevelt embargoed the export of such grades of oil as still were in commercial flow to Japan.”[2] The British and the Dutch followed suit, embargoing exports to Japan from their colonies in southeast Asia.

An Untenable Position

Roosevelt and his subordinates knew they were putting Japan in an untenable position and that the Japanese government might well try to escape the stranglehold by going to war. Having broken the Japanese diplomatic code, the Americans knew, among many other things, what Foreign Minister Teijiro Toyoda had communicated to Ambassador Kichisaburo Nomura on July 31: “Commercial and economic relations between Japan and third countries, led by England and the United States, are gradually becoming so horribly strained that we cannot endure it much longer. Consequently, our Empire, to save its very life, must take measures to secure the raw materials of the South Seas.”[3]
Because American cryptographers had also broken the Japanese naval code, the leaders in Washington knew as well that Japan’s “measures” would include an attack on Pearl Harbor.[4] Yet they withheld this critical information from the commanders in Hawaii, who might have headed off the attack or prepared themselves to defend against it. That Roosevelt and his chieftains did not ring the tocsin makes perfect sense: after all, the impending attack constituted precisely what they had been seeking for a long time. As Stimson confided to his diary after a meeting of the war cabinet on November 25, “The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves.”[5] After the attack, Stimson confessed that “my first feeling was of relief ... that a crisis had come in a way which would unite all our people.[6]

Notes

1. Harry Elmer Barnes, “Summary and Conclusions,” in Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace:A Critical Examination of the Foreign Policy of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Its Aftermath (Caldwell, Id.: Caxton Printers, 1953), pp. 682–83.

2. All quotations in this paragraph from George Morgenstern, “The Actual Road to Pearl Harbor,” in Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace, pp. 322–23, 327–28.

3. Quoted ibid., p. 329.

4. Robert B. Stinnett, Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor (NewYork: Free Press, 2000).

5. Stimson quoted in Morgenstern, p. 343.

6. Stimson quoted ibid., p. 384.

ROBERT HIGGS is Retired Senior Fellow in Political Economy, Founding Editor and former Editor at Large of The Independent Review.

PS: This is a must read if you really want to know the detailed, documented truth about the 'surprise' attack on Pearl Harbor: Robert B. Stinnett, Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor (NewYork: Free Press, 2000).

Is I don't care because the options are across an ocean that would die before they got halfway? I give no fucks about these people. About these nations. Fuck 'em. Most of the East can eat a wet horse shit. Russia, China, Europe, Africa, etc. Aussie and NZ get a soft pass. I don't care about these historic fucks. They ain't in America.

A couple of books that I highly recommend on the subject of World War II:

First, 'Freedom Betrayed: Herbert Hoover's Secret History of the Second World War and Its Aftermath'

It is a 1,000 page tome, but well worth the read. Has some very explosive inside information that is only available to former Presidents, so much so that its publication and release was delayed for 50 years. Hoover explicitly states that FDR really was loading up the Federal Government with communist agents, which has been proven to be the case after the former Soviet Union files were released, and, that World War II actually benefitted the USSR and Stalin which ended up enslaving over 100 million people, an outcome that FDR wanted to happen!


https://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Betrayed-Herbert-Hoovers-Aftermath/dp/0817912347

Next, truly a great historical work by Pat Buchanan:


Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War": How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World By: Buchanan, Patrick J.

https://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Hitler-Unnecessary-War-Buchanan/dp/B00NBNDIHA/

PS: if there was only one book that I could recommend on the real causes and lasting effects of World War II, this would be it. One of the few historical books that I have read twice. If you are like me, I once held Winston Churchill to be a heroic figure. After reading this well documented work, your opinion is likely to change!

Wasn't Hoover one of the principles for 'maintaining' WWI for the designated length (Freemason Illuminati specifications) by arranging for food to be sent to a starving Germany through Denmark/Netherlands so the Germans could continue fighting? WWI would have ended much sooner without that. It was characterized as some kind of act of compassionate heroism after the fact when it was war maintenance.

Kinna like USA providing Germany with Ford trucks and ball bearing during WWII. Albert Speer said that WWII and the Nazi war machine could have been stopped abruptly if the supply of ball bearings to the Reich had ceased, either by bombing ball bearing factories or cutting off their supply. It seemed to be his backhanded observation that the Allies didn't want the war to end short of designated goals.

Tavistock came up with the brilliant plan of bombing factory workers and civilian targets (but not factories) during WWII, because the Allies wanted the industrial infrastructure of Germany as intact as possible. Civilian terrorism replaced the old models of wars fought on fronts by uniformed soldiers.

The length of the conflicts (sacred dates) and the kill ratios (account holder harvests for banksters) had to be met by the planners.

Apparently Hoover Institute has a strict chastity belt around many of the saved documents from WWI and WWII. They are chilled out until some prescribed point in the future when "No dynastics have been harmed by the exposure of this information" wink, wink, nod, nod, secret handshake type thingie?

There will be no Civil War, or no WWII. Humans have become too complacent for an old school historical carnage war.
Sure we will indiscriminately bomb regions we're in conflict with, but there isn't any real attempt to open a can of whoop ass.
Just look at Ukraine, all of the military age young men are all in South Florida living in high-rise condos on the beach, financed with Kerry/Biden grifter money.
Do you really think Putin is even making an honest effort to conquer Ukraine? This is the most paltry war in the history of mankind.
Just how can Russia be a serious threat to any first world super power when they can't even take a country the size of South Carolina?

Even China when they try to grab India or Tibet by the horns, gets the shit kicked out of them and ran off the hill. China still hasn't invaded Taiwan because they know there will be serious blood.

Now all of these war efforts are falling short, not because lack of political will. People today see no honor or glory to send their kids off to war to die for the ruling class. They will uprise and kill ever leader in the country where they sleep if they were forced to. So these countries have to round up halfwits, miscreants, and elderly with nothing to lose to put on these mock show battles. All in the effort to extort money from the West. They are eating our lunch with History's greatest con job.

As for the Civil war the ruling class keeps trying to instigate. When it finally happens. The Left softy lowbrow gender confused feel seekers, wont put up much of a challenge. They damn sure wont stop the fed up Conservative masses that has finally had it up to here and snapped. They wont see their friends, neighbors and relatives that has different political views as them as the enemy. They will see everyone that has ever held a position of power in the last 20 to 30 years as the enemy. And at this point there wont be any cable news channels to report the carnage. As they will be target number one as well.

The Civil war wont be historically accurate. I think when that day comes, the Fat Cats and Boss Hoggs will be strung up in the village squares, as the Right and Left populous citizens will find common ground and see the real enemy for who they are.

These agitating pundits and authors should stop if they know what's good for them.

When 'balanced' views of WWII threatened to emerge after WWII, the Rockefellers set up commissions to establish and promulgate to academia the 'official' prescribed versions of WWII history. If people remain confused about the many aspects of WWII, it is for a reason. There is a strict, howling fence around the subject. Try to go out the gate and ask the 'wrong' questions and you will find tread marks on your face.

So basically everyone keeps talking about WWIII and or Civil Wars. But nobody has mentioned an all out Revolt against the NWO(The actual enemy of the people worldwide).

The impending bloody carnage everyone knows is coming, will be a vicious bloody violent revolt against the ruling class. Fat 4ft Lesbians and pronoun confused palace guards wont protect them.

RayAmerica says

Japan was maneuvered into attacking us due to FDR's crippling embargoes of the island nation.

RayAmerica says

How U.S. Economic Warfare Provoked Japan’s Attack on Pearl Harbor

We didn't big trade with China? We didn't have massive missionary interests in China? We should just sit back and allow Japan to take over China without so much as an embargo to try to protect our interests? Japan didn't deliberately bomb our gunboat? Funny how those who allow no mistake with the Liberty are so quick to write off the sinking of the Panay...

RayAmerica says

Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War": How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World By: Buchanan, Patrick J.

Buchanan was pro-interventionist when it came to Croatia in the Yugoslav war, here is the "Non-Interventionist" pandering to co-religionists and promising US support if elected.

“Your cause is my cause. God bless you, and God bless a free Croatia.” The crowd chants, “We love Pat!” Buchanan walks through the crowd shaking hands.

Video proof at the link:

https://mediaburn.org/video/the-90s-election-specials-raw-buchanan-3/

Tenpoundbass says

Do you really think Putin is even making an honest effort to conquer Ukraine? This is the most paltry war in the history of mankind.

No. There's only two options: Either the Red Army is hopelessly incompetent, or Putin is fine with a frozen conflict with a little attrition he can easily afford but Ukraine cannot. I suspect the latter.

goofus says

The truth is so self-evident that opposing views need censorship, jail time, and .. electrodes. Yikes, but I think we’re at the point where “your silence will not protect you.” Going along to get along gets the gulag too.

Internalized Leftism as expressed in the 1939 Project, the Woke Right's 1619 Project to undermine America.

By the way, I'm super jazzed over X and how Elon is letting the refutations rip, while the Woke Right and their simps are trying to conflate refutation and counter-factuals and criticism as "Censorship" when it's the very essence of Free Speech and Open Debate.

I suspect many thought "If we just got rid of the NGOs policing the Tweeter, our arguments for Empress Maria Theresa's second coming would win by default"

Now they are whinging because their false claims and lack of timing context (ie Hitler's pitch made after Dunkirk, violating Benelux neturality with firebombing, etc.) are getting pointed out.

AmericanKulak says

No. There's only two options: Either the Red Army is hopelessly incompetent, or Putin is fine with a frozen conflict with a little attrition he can easily afford but Ukraine cannot. I suspect the latter.

OR Putin is getting 10% from the Big Guy earmarks Congress doles out every 6 months.