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The H-1b Lie: This Program Must END


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2024 Dec 26, 4:13pm   2,958 views  98 comments

by mell   ➕follow (10)   ignore  

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=252559

"
Let's cut the crap on H-1b abuse: The H-1b program is in essentially every single case simple abuse, wild-eyed racism through the effective of the "caste" system into the US and destruction of the wage base .vs. the claimed purpose of the program.

In truth the H-1b garbage and the tech firms, including Elon's, shilling for it is nothing more than the same bullshit run by the construction industry when it comes to illegal aliens putting on roofs or farmers and picking strawberries. Neither industry wants to pay Americans a living wage and so both look for ways to cut their costs and stuff the rest of the money in their pockets. Breaking the law doesn't matter to them and yes, essentially every H-1b as currently used is breaking the law because the law requires first a diligent search for American talent at the wage said talent will accept and then, and only then you must pay more to legally use H-1bs. This is never the case, and the job-shop crap is even worse which I will go into detail on below. The so-called "tech bros" all know this, all exploit this and every single one of them should be imprisoned for suborning it, abusing Americans and foreigners alike.

One of the more-common abuses is to list a "job opening" that has a litany of "requirements" that no reasonably-skilled person in-field actually meets but magically some H-1b person "does." Or so they claim; said person really doesn't have five years of experience in the entire list proffered, but this is the basis of their claim "there's no American who can do this job." As someone who has more than forty years in the computer field as a programmer, networking and systems guy I can spot those "ads" instantly; every one of them is a fraud and used solely to avoid hiring an American. Let me be clear: The posting of a single one of those ads is proof of fraud and thus a felony for which the posting entity should be instantly arrested, indicted and everyone involved in it imprisoned.

If you really are an "exceptional" individual in-field you have no need for H-1b at all irrespective of your nationality; the claim that this program actually provides "exceptional" talent is a bald-faced lie that we must not tolerate in any venue. If you are truly exceptional in your field you can apply for and get an O-1 visa which allows you to work for three years in the United States, it can be extended for additional one year terms indefinitely, it has no tie to a specific employer so you can follow job opportunity or set up your own firm unlike the H-1b that does not and thus forces the holder to stay with the sponsoring company or depart the US, it can form the foundation (assuming you aren't misrepresenting anything and really are exceptional and prove it once you get here) for permanent residency and of course that, over time, can lead to citizenship.

So why don't they do that? Because nearly all of them are not really more-skilled than an average person and further if they were they'd turn their own nation into a technology powerhouse since they have four times our population or more and plenty of natural resources.

H-1b visas as illegally exploited today by industry are essentially indentured servitude. The worker is captive to the employer who sponsors the visa and what's worse is that an entire consulting industry has risen up around these things that siphons off a huge percentage of the pay; many of these people make only the minimum of about $55,000 a year with the rest going to the consulting company which is a direct violation of the intent of the program that is supposed to only allow their use at above-market wages. Of course this means the "employee" winds up working 80 hours a week for 40 hours of $27.50/hr in pay.

No, $55,000 for a "skilled" tech worker who is then expected to work double time for no extra money is not an above-market wage anywhere in the United States. It is in fact way below any such skilled position's wage and in addition that "wage" being that its a contractor position does not include either taxes or benefits.

I know multiple young men and women who, knowing my history in the tech sector from worker bee to CEO asked for my opinion on going to college and entering tech careers a decade or more ago and I warned them of the rise of this program and its abuse -- and that given the cost of a degree unless they had a full ride scholarship it was quite dangerous because they could end up with quite a lot of debt and then be undercut by an Indian on an H-1b who makes a hell of a lot less and they'd have no way to possibly survive and pay down their debt on that wage.

I'm aware of more than one of said young men and women, a few of who are definitely in the top 2% on an intellectual basis (that is, Mensa material and potential future superstars) who completed highly technical degrees with high honors and then left the tech industry entirely and don't work in it today. I do not know if they got directly fucked by the H-1b program as the reason but I bet at least in part it was due to lack of satisfaction with offered working conditions which is driven in large part by this insanity.

Those individuals have deliberately given the finger to the American tech industries despite having the intellectual and educational chops to be top engineers and possibly discover and implement breakthroughs that would change our lives. It is only reasonable to believe they made this decision to stick up their middle fingers due to external market conditions beyond their control and H-1b abuse is a big part of it. And by the way they are also not having kids either; by their actions they have zero intention of putting another generation in that position and this is despite having found an apparently-permanent heterosexual relationship.

Further, many of these so-called "technical people" on H-1bs, particularly from India, have bogus certificates and degrees that demonstrate nothing; they are really no better than an American with no experience who went through a couple of week bootcamp in Android programming or similar. There is utterly no reason that any of those people should be here instead of Americans doing those jobs; if the job is within their capabilities the average High School graduate can, with nothing more than a High School level of education, learn enough to work at that level inside of a few weeks time in learning.

But will they do that for $27.50/hour when they're treated like human trash and members of an "inferior caste" on the job? Not when they can make $20/hr doing what amounts to a near-mindless job at Buc-Ees and punch a clock with no project pressures and related BS -- they can do that instead with a reasonable path to being an assistant manager at over $30/hr and if they stick with it management jobs in that company, which you really can attain, come with a $100,000+ income over the space of a few years!

What's worse is the staunchest defenders of this crap are Indians who came here either on O-1s or otherwise managed to get out of the H-1b trap themselves and stay -- and now are either in those firms as management or running the job shops fucking all the other H-1b workers for 30+% of the billed hourly rate. They have now brought the Indian caste system with them and have to a large degree codified it into the United States workforce and thus love the job-shop abuse crap that goes on in the tech industry and it shows inexorably in the composition of the workforce that winds up under and around them over just a few years time.

You don't have to look beyond simply walking in the door or touring the neighborhoods where these workers live to see the racial discrimination against everyone other than them and just like every slavery system crafted through history its all about the money.

All of this must end; it is wildly illegal and found everywhere in the tech industry. Those who truly are exceptional, irrespective of nation, can already come here via the existing O-1 visa program which is purely merit-based and has exactly zero "pull" capacity by job shops and others who would seek to exploit those in other lands. The existing H-1b program does that in spades and effectively has become an import of the Indian caste system into the tech industries.

That is not embodiment of American values, it is illegal under federal anti-discrimination laws, it has been increasingly exploited to drive down wages and push Americans out of tech jobs and it must be entirely ended with prejudice right here and now as it is in fact no different than exploiting illegal Mexicans to put on roofs and pluck chickens.

If Trump does not do so then his claim of intent to "Make America Great Again" is just another political LIE and YOU are going to get it further up your ass as an American for the benefit of those who are not.
"

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45   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 27, 11:10pm  

I decided to search "Santa" just to see if there was a critical shortage of Mall Santas that only Abu from Karachi could fill.

Fortunately not, but I found this whopper


"Hurr Durr, Retail Store Manager is an arcane and rare skill no lazy, stupid American possesses. There are no bicycle fanatics anywhere in California. that would rather run a Bike Store than being a supervisor at Smoothies Hut."
46   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 27, 11:42pm  




Apparently no American in the Ozark Area is capable of managing a convenience store for ~$48k/year according to Founder Ibraheem Kahtoot and President Abdul Quddus.

Thanks for creating good jobs, diversity blessings! For H1Bs, at least.
47   gabbar   2024 Dec 28, 5:36am  

This is not a secret.

48   gabbar   2024 Dec 28, 5:42am  

If Americans don't fight this (not on the internet but on the streets and in politics), they are looking at a bleak future for their children. It might be too late already.

49   WookieMan   2024 Dec 28, 6:13am  

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

Farmerswon today

I'm glad that guy has me blocked so I can only see his stupid posts when I'm not logged in.

Lol forgot about that. That's one of my 10 ignores for sure.
50   gabbar   2024 Dec 28, 6:16am  

AmericanKulak says

HOLY SHIT, Elon


Elon hoez mad he didn't get in on the O-1 visa but the H1B?

Elon is right about himself and for himself only; he cannot have a short term and self interested view on this. WTF
51   WookieMan   2024 Dec 28, 6:36am  

gabbar says

Elon is right about himself and for himself only; he cannot have a short term and self interested view on this. WTF

If this is a real tweet, it's a bit short sighted. He doesn't exist without America. Someone else would have figured out all his companies at some point.

Electric golf carts have existed for around 50 years I believe. He just scaled up existing tech. Tunnels have been built forever, again borrowed tech. Space X is maybe the only argument he did something unique. Reality is someone would have done it anyway that was natively born in America.

I like Musk, but he's showing his ego here. I know likely 200 engineers that could work for him that are Americans. A few have done award winning work nationally. This is just who I know. He just wants slave labor from poor countries that got educated. Does it work for him, likely yes, but it doesn't work for the citizens you built your companies in. That's a tweet I'd delete. Though I don't know what is real or fake anymore.
54   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 28, 6:07pm  

Great Thread: Salary breakdown shows the vast number of H1Bs are for lower-middle band job ranges, not the top tier of elite experts.
https://x.com/RobertMSterling/status/1873174742129361084
55   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 28, 6:08pm  

Patrick Bet-David's H1B worker


Nobody in the State of Florida would do Graphic Design for Valuetainment ... at the price multimillionaire Bet-David wanted to optimally pay.
57   MolotovCocktail   2024 Dec 28, 8:18pm  

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

mell says


Trump has said forever that the H1B program is abuse and needs to at the minimum be severely curtailed if not abandoned


He says a lot of things.



58   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 28, 8:30pm  

Elon is coming around.

59   Patrick   2024 Dec 28, 8:31pm  

Trump should talk specifically about imposing a high wage requirement for H1B visas.

But as usual, Trump does not speak clearly enough.
60   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 28, 8:38pm  

Patrick says

But as usual, Trump does not speak clearly enough.

Sometimes, it's deliberate. Let them stew. Very Torunaga (Shogun, the Book)
61   MolotovCocktail   2024 Dec 28, 10:48pm  

Patrick says

Trump should talk specifically about imposing a high wage requirement for H1B visas.

But as usual, Trump does not speak clearly enough.


Oh @Patrick


68   gabbar   2024 Dec 29, 5:46am  

AmericanKulak says

Sometimes, it's deliberate. Let them stew. Very Torunaga (Shogun, the Book)

It is deliberate. He is a sharp. And ruthless. Imo.
69   RWSGFY   2024 Dec 29, 10:47am  

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

Patrick says


Trump should talk specifically about imposing a high wage requirement for H1B visas.

But as usual, Trump does not speak clearly enough.


Oh Patrick





He's backpedalling after getting a new asshole ripped on Twatter.
71   MolotovCocktail   2024 Dec 29, 1:33pm  

RWSGFY says

He's backpedalling after getting a new asshole ripped on Twatter.


I think it is because he got bitchslapped by the Trump peeps.
75   AmericanKulak   2024 Dec 30, 9:44pm  

Fragoman HR Rep cut and pasted the generic "White Male American" rejection in the job description.


76   MolotovCocktail   2024 Dec 31, 7:30am  

AmericanKulak says

Fragoman HR Rep cut and pasted the generic "White Male American" rejection in the job description.





It's like that everywhere.
78   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Dec 31, 8:07am  

AmericanKulak says

Fragoman HR Rep cut and pasted the generic "White Male American" rejection in the job description.


C++, Java or Javascript? WTF?
80   Tenpoundbass   2024 Dec 31, 11:14am  

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

C++, Java or Javascript? WTF?


Yup, and I have never had a H1B visa Indian, that could outcode me in simple run of the mill enterprise and website coding.
Now I'm not bashing Indians in general. I'm sure the Indians Musk employs to make Teslas, and self landing rockets, and power walls, and tunnel boring machines, are technically way out of my league doing things I could never do. But for 99% of the companies out there, they are simply replacing American workers with cheap labor. To the detriment of their IT infrastructure. They brought in 13 Indians to replace me and take over the code base I wrote for the company I was working for. It took me 3 years to write 7 complex systems. It took them over 24 months to deliver an unusable Netsuite integration of those processes, databases and application. According to ex-coworkers still there. It's missing most of the best features, and it's buggy and ineffective.
I was forced to spend about 5 months with them to bring them up to speed on what my codebase was doing. They would get angry with me, because they couldn't understand it. Demanded that I simplified my explanations, and bitched about the complication of my processes. Without even understanding how its done.

H1B visas should not be used for any Enterprise coding. Unless that company actually has proprietary chips and hardware that goes along with it. Even then that guy should wear both hats, otherwise they should have to hire Americans to code the client side of things.
81   Patrick   2024 Dec 31, 11:22am  

https://oldschoolcounselor.substack.com/p/bannon-departs-from-trump-and-muskaswamy


Holy Macaroni.

Steve Bannon just launched a nationalist missile on his War Room show this morning.

Bannon departed from his former boss President Trump and Billionaire Elon Musk on the H-1B1 Visa program, which has become a symbol for nationalism/populism.

He demanded immediate H-1B holder deportation back to their countries of origin.

He demanded that companies hire the displaced American workers in their place.

He demanded reparations from Silicon Valley companies for the American workers who received discrimination.

Wow. That is some serious reform.

The H-1B Visa program is and always has been a scam designed to disenfranchise American workers and enrich the heads of global tech corporations. The program draws its fake legitimacy from a propaganda story about meritocracy that appeals to many conservatives and libertarians.

Gab Founder and Nationalist philosopher Andrew Torba dispelled the myth of meritocracy in a powerful X Post this morning that all Conservatives and Libertarians need to understand. Torba takes Bannon to a deeper level.

"A genuine meritocracy can only realistically function within the boundaries of a nation state, among its own citizens. This is because the notion of a meritocracy presupposes a shared cultural, linguistic, and legal framework that facilitates fair assessment and recognition of individual merits. When we attempt to apply this concept on a global scale, it doesn’t work and causes all sorts of problems as was demonstrated this week. The concept of merit itself is influenced by a nation's unique history, values, and traditions. What is considered admirable or praiseworthy in one culture may be seen as unimportant or even undesirable in another. This cultural divergence creates obvious obstacles when attempting to establish a universal system of merit on a global scale. If you want a true meritocracy it has to be one by Americans for Americans."
82   GNL   2024 Dec 31, 11:25am  

Patrick says

The H-1B Visa program is and always has been a scam designed to disenfranchise American workers and enrich the heads of global tech corporations. The program draws its fake legitimacy from a propaganda story about meritocracy that appeals to many conservatives and libertarians.

Then what is the purpose of importing them here? Coding can be done anywhere.
83   Tenpoundbass   2024 Dec 31, 11:33am  

Elon really kicked a hot turd on a hot summer day. He should have just kept his mouth shut and let the H1B visa posts on X proceed without jumping into the fray. Now that he's put it front and center. There's a good chance all H1B visas, and visas that take any American job will be placed under hard scrutiny.
It will be easier for a construction firm to import dry wallers, than for companies to import coders.

It's only going to get worse for Elon. He might have burned out already. So many pretend MAGers, think they can bullshit their way into the MAGAverse with populist shit. Then once they are venerated and are getting heaps and praises, they take their mask off thinking just endearing the MAGers, is all they have to do. It's as if, they think Trump supporters just because we like Trump, we will go for anything and everything he pulls out of his hat. He'll be the first to tell you that's not true. Trump tried to hock the Vax and Masks and got his hand slapped hard. He had the good sense the pull away and never bring it up again. Had Trump told his base "Go fuck your face, you racist cretins, the Republican party doesn't need you".
Then Biden would have won the 2020 election fair and square.

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2024/12/31/report-elon-musks-tesla-replaced-laid-off-americans-with-foreign-workers-on-h-1b-visas/
84   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Dec 31, 11:43am  

Tenpoundbass says


Yup, and I have never had a H1B visa Indian, that could outcode me in simple run of the mill enterprise and website coding.


Well not only that but two of them are outdated back end languages and one is (sadly still used) a front end. Casting a pretty fucking wide net there considering they are supposed to be looking for hard to find astrophysicists type needle in a haystack.

Also, a dip shit recruiter or HR or hiring manager. Or lazy.

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