patrick.net

"So sensitive….geesh!!"

I replied to your post about the article, and then you give me a "Whatever, I'm dismissing you with a silly insult" response. So I reply to that and then get accused of being "so sensitive" and turning your apologies into insults.

I do not think you owe me an apology, by the way. I just think you and I are incapable of communicating with each other effectively in written form.

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Forgot to add mucho emoticons to that last post to avoid miscommunication of tone.

"I’m the one that deleted the comments. I did so because this is a place to debate real estate, not TV shows and the battle of the sexes. There are plenty of other places to have those kinds of flame wars."

I understand your reasoning, which is completely valid. I think the deletions were just a bit of a shock because SQT is a long-time valuable contributor to the blog and generally everyone is given the benefit of the doubt in such instances. We do have a habit of wandering from topic on occasion, but hey, your thread, your discretion.

"Sure, I’d rather own. But the Bay Area is egregiously overpriced. I’ve seen a number of these cycles here in Calif dating back to the 70s—both in residential and in commercial."

Wise words, Nostradomus.

Matt, it really sounds like you're leaning toward buying now, correct? I think the quote above is something to keep foremost in your mind.

I'm just guessing but I also get a feeling you have friends who own homes and have given you all their arguments about why you should buy now? It just sounds that way from some of your comments. Everyone we know who owns a house in the Bay Area peppers us with those arguments. :-) It's hard to stand strong against them.

Matt, it really sounds like you’re leaning toward buying now, correct? I think the quote above is something to keep foremost in your mind.

I’m just guessing but I also get a feeling you have friends who own homes and have given you all their arguments about why you should buy now? It just sounds that way from some of your comments. Everyone we know who owns a house in the Bay Area peppers us with those arguments. :-) It’s hard to stand strong against them.

Well, indeed I do have friends that own. 2 are nearly broke *today*. Yes, I hate to admit to renting. But at this point, those arguments really have faded to the reality that

1) I have been booted out of 2 houses in as many years because owners want to sell. The most recent one claimed he would *never* sell, and wanted long term rentals. I believe he was sincere, but the point is, you never know.

2) This all hinges on one thing...RE vs. equity market returns. I I put down $300k and have the same payment as rent (less, if you count principal pay down). So, the big question is, how will RE do vs. the equity markets? Will higher rates push buyers out? Will another dollar crash bring in hoardes of offshore investors (as has happened in Miami)? Is it a wash?

3) Add to all this, we've moved in, settled, love the neighborhood, and there are no rentals in the same price range. I found a great one in Palo Alto yesterday, but there were so many applicants that they had us on a schedule with 15 minute showings.

"Allah’s insult was left, as was Jamie’s rebuttal...I wasn’t inciting a flame war, this is a conversation that has carried over from another thread and I was simply commenting on allah’s continued sexism. "

Good point. We should probably all be deleted, if one of us was. :-) And this really was an ongoing thing from another thread. SQT meant no harm.

"1) I have been booted out of 2 houses in as many years because owners want to sell. The most recent one claimed he would *never* sell, and wanted long term rentals. I believe he was sincere, but the point is, you never know."

I can see how tiring this would be. I'm not all that familiar with rental agreements here, but I know in that past we've gotten rental agreements that were to our advantage--allowing us to rent for the exact time we wanted to, two years or whatever. Is that possible for you?

"3) Add to all this, we’ve moved in, settled, love the neighborhood, and there are no rentals in the same price range. I found a great one in Palo Alto yesterday, but there were so many applicants that they had us on a schedule with 15 minute showings. "

Yikes on the Palo Alto place. Is it possible for you to go up the peninsula a bit to one of the neighborhoods with a less prestigious image (but still a solid family neighborhood?).

If you love the house and love the neighbhorhood enough to stay there long-term, and you are willing to accept the possibility that if you have to sell in the next ??? years, you could be selling at a loss (but this is certainly a big if), then buying could be the right choice for you.

I'm not being much help. I just hate to see you feel pressured into buying unless it really is the house you *want.* Sometimes trying to reduce these decisions completely to numbers doesn't work, because a house is an emotional purchase too.

"I guess what burns me up is that allah can throw out an insult and I can’t respond to it."

You're right, I don't know why it didn't occur to me before that it was an uneven kind of thing, not deleting all of us. Too early in the morning, I guess. You have just as much right to reply to allah's off-topic comments as I do.

Also Matt, I just realized, you've left half the information out of this equation. What does your *wife* want to do? :-P

I guess what burns me up is that allah can throw out an insult and I can’t respond to it.

Huh? What happened?

Ok, can we declare a truce in the War of the Sexes here?

Deleting SQT's comment without deleting the others was a tad one-sided, I agree. However, having been on the moderator side of more than one nasty flame war as well as two rounds of voting to expel our Most Persitent troll, I can understand Matt's desire to nip this thing in the bud. Hey, moderating's not easy and everyone has a different threshold of sensitivity I guess.

How about a new thread by and for the ladies? Here's a topic: Why are some bloggers sexist pigs? :lol:

I delete only when the author requests the deletion.

SQT, you're right, I didn't see the comment.

I simply said allah must be perfect to judge Jamie’s choices in entertainment as garbage.

Hmm... well, if "allah" is God, then technically he IS perfect, right?? (sorry, you made it too easy --just couldn't resist :-P)

Allah akba.....
Better stop here. I may unwittingly offend our muslim following ;-) .

Also, deleting is not nice because mass deletion can cause the thread bubble to burst.

Oops.

OMG :roll: your still going on about that?

I was simply commenting on allah’s continued sexism.

WHAT on this whole thread do YOU (or anyone else) consider sexist? This I would LOVE to hear..... mind you, none of my posts were deleted.

I did use that tone we women use when we’re annoyed at a man. Ever heard it?

Now I could (being funny)........... but I'm not going to go there :lol: ... not worth it!

Hmm… well, if “allah” is God, then technically he IS perfect, right??

Lets not turn this into a holy war. :-)

Allah, Jaimie & SQT: the best thing to do is just talk exclusively about real estate, economics and related topics. Resist the urge!

Allah, Jaimie & SQT: the best thing to do is just talk exclusively about real estate, economics and related topics. Resist the urge!

I assure you that everything they talk about is within 6-degree of sushi.

sushi

I mean real estate.

"Allah, Jaimie & SQT: the best thing to do is just talk exclusively about real estate, economics and related topics. Resist the urge!"

Actually, related topics includes the topic of women in the workplace/stay-at-home parents, which was the original debate I had with allah. Women in the workplace influences economics, stay-at-home parents influence the ability to buy real estate (or not) and so on.

Which is why there is usually a lot of leniency in moderation. Stifled conversations can lead to a lifeless blog. Or you'll just have one group of newbies after another visiting the blog and reinventing the wheel. I think most of us stick around because we enjoy the debates and conversations, but many of us have been here long enough that we're tired of kicking the dead horse of the housing bubble. (Maybe we need to leave :-))

But seriously, I certainly want to respect the wishes of the majority, and if that means we never mention anything that is not very directly real estate related, I'm okay with that. I just think we may need to revisit the rules, so to speak, and see what the majority agrees upon.

But seriously, I certainly want to respect the wishes of the majority, and if that means we never mention anything that is not very directly real estate related, I’m okay with that. I just think we may need to revisit the rules, so to speak, and see what the majority agrees upon.

I think it is okay so long as the topic is within 6-degree of sushi.

Allah, Jaimie & SQT: the best thing to do is just talk exclusively about real estate, economics and related topics. Resist the urge!

Fine....but if anyone can find something that I said is sexist anywhere on this thread, I will buy them a house (non-bubble areas only!). ;-) .

The market goes up, the market goes down. That is not opinion but a simple statement of fact. It’s just the way of the world. So how do you know when to buy or sell?

Buy when it's down, sell when it's up.

Fundamentals. It’s all about You, Inc. How much do you have coming in? How much do you have going out? It’s what you do with the money you keep that in the end will determine your wealth.

Very true....and you will keep more if you buy after the bubble....don't forget, the aftermath of this bubble can leave you bankrupt should you buy now!

This is why real estate is a long term investment. You have to ride the waves, the crests and the troughs. But in the end, after 30 years of values wavering, going up and down, you’ll own a piece of property that will almost surely be worth more than you paid for it. The same is true for the stock market. Unless you’re willing to weather the storm and ride out the waves, don’t invest.

As far as the Stock market is concerned, it is when to buy and when to sell that makes you rich....if it wasn't, people would have held onto their Stock when it was crashing since it will go back up again...eventually! I don't look at a house as an investment at all......... but one thing I know for sure is that when property is so unnatually high in price, it is not a good time to buy. Buying right now is a good way of transferring a significant portion (if not all) of you wealth to a greedy seller. I want to buy a house I can afford without being a slave to my mortgage and have a lower standard of living. I also don't want to be trapped in my house because I am upside down on my mortgage...Who knows what the future holds... I may have to move.

Buy a house to live in it. Buy the house you like. Buy the house you want. Pay for it and live in it. Build equity, minimize expenses and invest your profits in income-generating assets. Play to win, or don’t play at all.

Exactly.... I will do this when it is a good time to buy and I suggest everyone else follows. Right now, any house I could afford is an ugly POS house I would be ashamed to live in and call my own. Some people seem to not mind spending a fortune on a dump I wouldn't want to be caught dead in...but to each there own I guess.

LOL, SQT, thank you, thank you, thank you. I was too lazy to go dig up all that previous crap. And here's what I have to say about the sexism on the current thread, allah:

I TRULY want to drop this, but you did ask... Yours is often a covert sexism. You take a vaguely condescending tone at times, and when you discuss issues pertaining to women, you have a tendancy to reveal without ever saying it directly that you consider women lesser than men. I don't think you *consciously* believe women are lesser--but it comes out nonetheless in the way you say some things.

Let me say this: it's all in the subtext. For instance, earlier in this thread you talked about television, and it's pretty clear you do not consider watching it a worthwhile pursuit, and then you only gave examples of females in your life who watch it. The implication then becomes (especially given the history of your comments as SQT listed) that women are the ones who waste their time on empty-headed pursuits.

Later in this thread you said something about how we're still "going on" about this. And you used that little eye-rolling emoticon. Given the history of your comments, this comes off sounding like you mean we're the raving females getting hysterical over nothing. Next thing you know the claws will come out and there will be fur flying everywhere (this is an inherently sexist image, which I'm sure you will disagree with).

I know I'm wasting my breath with all this. I hate making accusations of sexism, and in most cases I always give people the benefit of the doubt. I think we should agree to disagree, but then you go and make this challenge statement daring anyone to find sexism in your comments. Did you have to go there? Couldn't we just have left crappy enough alone?

And one final thing that's covertly sexist in your comments: the very fact that you assume I'm getting all emotional and making a big deal over nothing. I'm trying to engage in an intellectual debate, but instead I get these dismissive comments from you, as if you're saying that since I'm a woman, I'm not capable of having level-headed debates...when that's exactly what I'm trying to do.

(on gender issues) vive le difference.

But let it 'vive' somewhere else.

newsfreak: Wife likes the house, absolutely adores the neighborhood. She would stay forever. House basically functions 100%...and I've lived here 2 years, long enough to know. The heater is brand new, the roof is in good shape, inspector says it's pretty darn clean, but the windows are leaky (air).

HIGGINS:
Women are irrational, that's all there is to that!
There heads are full of cotton, hay, and rags!
They're nothing but exasperating, irritating,
vacillating, calculating, agitating,
Maddening and infuriating hags!
[To Pickering]
Pickering, why can't a woman be more like a man?

PICKERING:
Hmm?

HIGGINS:
Yes...
Why can't a woman be more like a man?
Men are so honest, so thoroughly square;
Eternally noble, historic'ly fair;
Who, when you win, will always give your back a pat.
Well, why can't a woman be like that?
Why does ev'ryone do what the others do?
Can't a woman learn to use her head?
Why do they do ev'rything their mothers do?
Why don't they grow up- well, like their father instead?
Why can't a woman take after a man?
Men are so pleasant, so easy to please;
Whenever you are with them, you're always at ease.
Would you be slighted if I didn't speak for hours?

PICKERING:
Of course not!

HIGGINS:
Would you be livid if I had a drink or two?

PICKERING:
Nonsense.

HIGGINS:
Would you be wounded if I never sent you flowers?

PICKERING:
Never.

HIGGINS:
Well, why can't a woman be like you?

And for the ladies....

62 reasons why cucumbers are better than men (R) from Jokeindex.com:

1. The average cucumber is at least six inches long.
2. Cucumbers stay hard for a week.
3. A cucumber won't tell you size don't count.
4. Cucumbers don't get TOO excited.
5. A cucumber never suffers from performance anxiety.
6. Cucumbers are easy to pick up.
7. You can fondle cucumbers in a supermarket... and you know how firm it is before you take it home.
8. Cucumbers can get away any weekend.
9. With a cucumber you can get a single room and ... you won't have to check in as 'Mrs. Cucumber'.
10. A cucumber will always respect you in the morning.
11. If you can go to the movie with a cucumber and see the movie at a drive in you can stay in the front seat.
12. A cucumber can always wait until you get home.
13. A cucumber won't eat all the popcorn.
14. A cucumber won't drag you out to a John Wayne Film Festival.
15. A cucumber won't ask: 'Am I first?'
16. Cucumbers don't care whether you're a virgin.
17. Cucumbers won't tell other cucumbers you're a virgin.
18. Cucumbers won't tell anyone you're not a virgin.
19. With cucumbers, you don't have to be a virgin more than once.
20. Cucumbers won't write your name and number on men's room wall.
21. Cucumbers don't have sex hang-ups.
22. Cucumbers won't ask: 'Am I the best', 'How was it?' 'Did you come?', 'How many times?'
23. Cucumbers aren't jealous of your gynecologist, ski instructor or hair dresser.
24. Cucumbers won't ask about your last lover or speculate about your next one.
25. A cucumber will never make a scene because there are other cucumbers in the refrigerator.
26. A cucumber won't mind hiding in the refrigerator when your mother comes over.
27. No matter how old you are you can always get a fresh cucumber.
28. You can dish a cucumber up for dinner to your Brother-in law
& Sister, after fucking it.
29. Cucumbers can handle rejection.
30. A cucumber won't pout if you have a headache.
31. A cucumber won't care what time of the month it is.
32. A cucumber never wants to get it on when your nails are wet.
33. A cucumber won't give it up for lent.
34. With a cucumber, you never have to say you're sorry.
35. Cucumbers won't leave whisker burns, fall asleep on your chest or drool on the pillow.
36. A cucumber will never give you a hickey.
37. Cucumbers can stay up ALL night and you won't have to sleep
in the wet spot.
38. A cucumber won't work your crossword in ink.
39. A cucumber isn't allergic to your cat.
40. Cucumbers never answer your phone or borrow your car.
41. A cucumber won't eat all your food or drink all your liquor.
42. A cucumber doesn't turn your bathroom into a library.
43. Cucumbers won't go through your medicine chest.
44. A cucumber doesn't use your toothbrush, roll-on or hairspray.
45. Cucumbers won't leave dirty shorts on the floor.
46. A cucumber never forgets to flush the toilet.
47. A cucumber doesn't flush the toilet while you're in the shower.
48. With a cucumber, the toilet seat is always the way you left it.
49. Cucumbers don't compare you to a centerfold.
50. Cucumbers won't tell you they liked you better with long hair.
51. A cucumber will never leave you for another man, another woman or another cucumber.
52. You will always know where your cucumber has been.
53. A cucumber never has to call 'the wife'.
54. Cucumbers won't tell you a vasectomy will ruin it for them.
55. You can have as many cucumbers as you can handle.
56. You only eat cucumbers when you feel like it.
57. You don't have to wait for halftime to talk to your cucumber.
58. A cucumber won't leave town on New Years Eve.
59. Cucumbers never want to take you home to mom.
60. Cucumbers never expect you to have little cucumbers.
61. It's easy to drop a cucumber.
62. A cucumber will never contest a divorce, demand a property settlement or seek custody of anything.

Thanks Bubblesitter... I am a bit old fashioned, but not sexist at all.... I guess I got that from my Father.

QT you should be a script writer....you have such an imagination to turn stuff that isn't sexist at all into something that is! Maybe you should re-write "desperate housewives" ...I'm sure it would actually be good and I'd probably even start to watch it myself!

First of all you said in this thread:

I was simply commenting on allah’s continued sexism.

I asked you to show me in this thread
where the continued sexism is.

You go back to several OTHER threads to dig up stuff that isn't sexist, but you can make it sound like it is....but theres nothing in THIS thread that you can even make sound sexist can you? The reason I bring this up is that you saying continued sexism when I obvioulsy didn't say anything sexist, means that you were on the prowl just waiting to attack me just because you THINK I am being disrespectful to your friend Jamie. Nice of you to take the time to go through all the threads and fish up stuff that you can TRY to make sound sexist....believe me, if I felt it wasn't a waste of my time, I could copy and paste some of the stuff YOU said which would certainly make you look less rosey, but I have far too much respect for you to do that.

If a woman works she is characterized as overly ambitious and the reason society has gone to hell in a hand basket.

Where did this come from??????? I said there is nothing wrong with Women having ambition.... In fact, I think it is great that they do what they want to do as long as they are happy. I am refering to Women who have kids and would rather put the kids in daycare 5 days a week instead of raising them, themselves.....does that make me a sexist? ...because if it does, than I am!

NOT ONE MENTION OF THE HUSBAND’S ROLE IN THE DECISION TO PUT THE CHILD IN DAYCARE. Nor do you mention the fact that a lot of men out there insist the wife work.

The decision to put the kids in daycare is a mutual decision... just like all others....if I didn't mention something, ask...and BTW I was defending the Woman who cared enough about her children that she would do something so selfless as to give up her career to take care of the kids and make a warm home for her family by saying the Woman should not be resented for not working...other than housework, which is very much work itself.....again, if that makes me a sexist...then I am, you got me!

And lets look at your portayal of the women who are crack whores and prostitutes who throw the kids in daycare. Is there no responsibility on the male shoulders that helped father these kids?

I never said they weren't responsible, I was just quoting what my GF at the time was saying about some of the kids parents...... I guess she is a sexist too.

All I get from your posts is constant blame on the women.

I don't know where you get this from....Anybody? (beside Jack, QT and Jamie)

It’s interesting how the men in our society get a free ride here and no blame at all.

Uh oh.....sounds like a sexist statement to me...What do you think guys?

If a woman dares to disagree with you, out comes the insulting comment “put away the claws” — would you say that to a man who disagree’s with you?

I get this image in my head of Jamie (Women do sometimes have long painted nails) wanting to scratch my eyes out..... Men don't have long nails (I hope not) so I'd probably say "put away the gloves" or something like that....Does that make me a sexist?

Oh, and of course there is the materialistic former-girlfriend. There is no way you were not implying this as typical of most women.

No...If I did, I would have mentioned several others, but I didn't did I?

I guarantee I am not the only woman here who finds this sexist. But I doubt I’ll get the house. The opinion of all the women in surely going to be cancelled out by your male opinion.

"male opinion" ....again, sounds like sexist to me...Doesn't it guys?

Jack...................................Shut up!

Well sorry for being a Man...I should have been a Cucumber!

here comes a gender based slander now…..

No...that was already done before.

It’s interesting how the men in our society get a free ride here and no blame at all. -QT

Well, in closing..... I love Women,.... I have never..ever been called a sexist by anyone in my entire life. I know alot of Women and they think very highly of me....I have even been told that I am a ladies Man (by a Woman) . I really think you have mistaken an old fashioned guy for someone who is sexist. I have known some guys who are REALLY sexists that if you had known them, you would really understand what I'm trying to say. If you nit-pick at anything anyone says, you can take what they say as sexist when they really are not. I am not a psychiatrist, but I can say that maybe there is just a little sexist in all of us Men and Women....There is however a threshold at which point would make one a true sexist and I know that neither of us are...I hope you agree.

I'm sorry we had to have this argument, but I hope it did some good. I think you are a wonderful person and I am happy you are here on this blog. Have a good night :)

I do think the cat claws comment WAS totally sexist by the way. Guys that say that kind of stuff usually are jerks, basically. I am not saying you are a jerk. But they seem to be, so you should consider where the cat claw comment got learned perhaps…. And who else you heard say it. What were they like?

Jack....I never heard the cat claws comment before, I made it up spur of the moment. I don't think it was sexist at all...neither does my wife. Like I said, I got the image of a Woman trying to scratch my eyes out....this happened once before whe I was young, I was joking around with a Girlfriend and we got into an argument and she slashed my face with her nails. Two lines in my face that stayed with me for nearly 2 months. She did it by accident and she was so sorry afterwards, but ever since then I always was looking out to make sure it didn't ever happen again.

Here's my 2 cents...

All kidding aside, I agree that gender issues (especially in the context of housing - affordability, gender bias, DINKs & affordability, etc.) is fair game for this blog. As newsfreak said, "We learn by talking thru the issues."

However, when the tone becomes snide and/or peppered with insulting references ("claws", etc.) whether or not it's intentional, this is where the debate can become personal and go downhill very quickly. Man or woman, no one likes to feel slighted. Maybe it's just time to take a temporary breather, reassess and cool off. I'd like to see the debate continue, but on a less personal level.

Ok, I can't resist one more joke:

"I have even been told that I am a ladies Man"

I get this image in my head of Allah standing there like the Tim Meadows/SNL "Ladies Man" character in his bachelor pad with a bottle of Curvosier workin' his moves on the babes... :mrgreen:

"get this image in my head of Jamie (Women do sometimes have long painted nails) wanting to scratch my eyes out….. "

I don't have long nails, nor are they painted. Just for the record. :-) Tell me what I said to evoke this raving-female-slashing-with-long-sharp-nails image. Or is that just the image you get whenever a woman argues with you?

Oh, but wait, you've also compared me to an explosive chemical that has to be handled with great care (in a previous thread). So after I slash you with my freakishly long nails, then I explode? Is that how it goes?

LOL!

Clearly, trying to mute things out of the discussion that have nothing to do with RE is like sweeping back the waves. It has only multiplied and worsened.

I received the email with all of SQTs posts (reproduced below) and thought to myself "This is noise. This is bashing. This is flamebait. This is going to lead to a zero-content thread." Of course that is what has happened regardless.

So, by popular demand, here are the bits from SQTs posts you all missed. Enjoy.

Post 1:
Whatever…….. I just thought of you when I stumbled across and thought you’d be interested in reading it thats all. As for “desperate housewives”, I really didn’t know you watched garbage like that.

I'm sure allah never watches garbage. Never makes a fallacious argument. Never takes a cheap shot when he can't think of a rational argument. Nope, always perfect.

Post 2:
And I forgot to say, Desperate Housewives was a reference to how the idea of discrimination against mothers has worked its way into pop culture. Love how you turned it into a way to insult me.

Hey, I love Law and Order, does that qualify as garbage too? Let me guess, if it's on TV it's garbage.

_sigh_

What's a girl to do? I guess I should be cleaning house all day, waxing my husband's shoes, making the perfect meals and when I finally have time to breath my entertainment of choice should only be what my husband allows me to do. Oh and maybe I can contribute to a little housing blog, again, if my husband thinks it's ok.

Post 3
Hmm, tough one. It *could* be garbage since it’s on TV, after all, but traditionally any entertainment whose audience is primarily women is considered garbage. Better yet if it’s created by women, primarily *for* women, it is most DEFINITELY garbage. Trust me, I know.

Yes there are no ideas that spring from the mind of woman that can compete with the brilliance of MAN.

I must hurry and get the ironing done, and bathe the goat. Can't have a smelly goat hanging around.

...

Oh and I almost forgot. I need to make myself look pretty for my MAN. Girl's gotta have priorities you know.