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Please help the REIC!


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2007 Feb 8, 9:30am   21,126 views  301 comments

by HARM   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

sad LiarRealtwhore

Please help the REIC and banksters! (for those unfamiliar with the term, please refer to the Housing Bubble Glossary).

They need our help. Signs their beloved mega-global housing/credit bubble is beginning to falter are now everywhere and unmistakable. No matter how low toxic-mortgage lenders lower "standards", it appears that they've exhausted their supply of typical FBs (innumerate 'tards and Marshall Reddick-worshipping specuvestors) and now they're even running short on falling-knife-catchers.

Sure, they're counting on a taxpayer-funded federal bailout of banks/lenders and GSEs --after all isn't that what taxpayers are for? They don't call it "Privatize profits, Socialize Risk" for nothing, do they? That's a gimme. Problem is, even with suckers like YOU footing the bill for some f***ing idiots' mistakes, there's still no way to avoid some pain for the industry players. Some toxic lenders have already gone out of business, while others are restating incomes/losses and teetering on the edge of insolvency --and this is only the beginning! Plus, lots of newly minted Realthwhores, fly-by-night mortgage brokers and hit-the-number appraisers are now facing unemployment.

This just will not do! Pain and negative consequences are for thrifty, responsible suckers like you --not the REIC!! Oh, the humanity... what to do, what to do?

Wait --I've got it!:

The biggest problem right now with maintaining that permanently high plateau is that rents cannot easily be inflated with debt, the way housing prices can. There is no such thing as a fraudulent cash-out refis, HELOCs or neg-ams for renters --they must pay their rent with real earned income and/or savings (yes, some people out there still have savings --can you believe it?!). Since renters must pay rent using real money vs. monopoly bubblebucks, there's no way to ignite crazy bidding wars on rentals. And global wage arbitrage is keeping wages firmly in check --no inflation happening there (crooked CEOs excepted, of course). Sadly, there's currently no way to funnel huge amounts of Fed/MBS/Chinese liquidity into the hands of renters, so they can bid rents to the sky.

And herein lies the solution: the REIC must create new debt vehicles for RENTERS!

Your assignment: How can the REIC and banksters create enormous new debt vehicles for renters, capable of inflating rents as high as house prices, thereby cancelling the rent-vs.-buy imbalance --without having to resort to any of that pesky wage inflation?

Discuss, enjoy...
HARM

#housing

« First        Comments 86 - 125 of 301       Last »     Search these comments

86   Claire   2007 Feb 9, 3:44am  

DinOR - Hope you don't mind.....but,

this is what I hate about our "Plan" - all the names of the funds are "slightly" changed so you do not actually know what you have and no way of tracking prices - the PIMCO one is PIMCO Total Return Admin - I'm guessing it is the one you refer to. Also offered are Maxim Bond Index, Maxim Loomis Sayles Bond Portfolio, Maxim US Government Securities Fund, and Lord-Abbett Bond-Debenture A - and then they charge fund operating expenses on top - but you never see a $ figure.

87   Claire   2007 Feb 9, 3:47am  

SF Woman,

I believe that some builders in Inland CA are trying to sell leaseholds, it's possible they are trying them elsewhere.

88   DinOR   2007 Feb 9, 3:49am  

Claire,

I happen to have a lot of respect for Lord Abbett and Loomis Sayles. At least when you call them (in Jersey City, NJ) they're right on top of it. Great service, decent returns.

NIA

89   e   2007 Feb 9, 3:50am  

I think there is a lot more rental stock in the core Bay Area now than 2000, precisely because many companies saw the rental frenzy and started building like crazy. So rents will not go up as much.

One of the rental complexes I lived in 2000 got converted into a condo complex. It's not clear to me that rental properties have grown in number. :(

90   SFWoman   2007 Feb 9, 3:51am  

Claire,

I can't see why anyone would want to buy a leasehold house in the US, unless they wanted a specific site on BLM land or something. It's not like it's London, where freeholds aren't common.

I guess it's cheaper, and people figure they'll be dead before the lease is up, so they don't care.

I guess trailer parks are mostly leaseholds. I have read about $2 million trailers in Malibu, I am going to suppose that's all land value.

91   astrid   2007 Feb 9, 3:54am  

Commercial leases can be quite long term and can be quite valuable (or detrimental) to a company's bottom line. Often times, long term RE leases will be the most valuable thing in a business bankruptcy.

92   Claire   2007 Feb 9, 3:56am  

SFWoman,

I know, I know, but that would be one way to revive the market for the REIC, right? I would not buy a leashold myself, but I'm sure if they put the right spin on it, they could sell anything, they certainly managed to sell all those toxic loans didn't they?

93   Claire   2007 Feb 9, 4:00am  

DinOR - thanks, maybe I will look at it all again closely, my problem is that they add on this extra component "Maxim" to some of the funds which in the small print are managed by sub-advisers and "they are not directly related to any mutual funds" and "their preformance may differ substantially" - that makes me more wary.

94   Peter P   2007 Feb 9, 4:14am  

OT, but interesting:

Which Sci-fi/Fantasy character are you?

http://sqt-fantasy-sci-fi-girl.blogspot.com/2007/02/i-love-these-things-so-sue-me.html

95   Claire   2007 Feb 9, 4:16am  

Sorry - didn't mean to drag it all back to finance, but I am still trying to learn it all, most of all my other fund picks are doing really well. Not had the courage to actively trade though (plus I don't have a huge amount that I could invest and be happy about loosing anyway). I keep thinking the whole market (stock) will tank when the housing market gets real bad.

96   Claire   2007 Feb 9, 4:21am  

Peter P -

Samwise Gamgee apparently

97   Peter P   2007 Feb 9, 4:23am  

Samwise Gamgee apparently

I got Harry Potter. Interesting...

98   GammaRaze   2007 Feb 9, 4:25am  

When I moved to the bay area from the east coast in 2000, my wife's then company actually hired someone to help us find an apartment! And he drove us around to 15 or so apartment complexes and at the end of the day we could find none with a vacancy.

In fact, some landlords would chase us away even before we parked. Luckily we found something a couple of days later for the low price for just $1750 (2 BR 2 BA) in Santa Clara.

To go back to the original question, I think renters should be allowed to turn around and subrent their apartment. When everyone starts doing this for a higher cost, it would be touted as an investment opportunity and banks would start lending to people to do just that. Bad credit, no problem.

Soon, everyone will be renting $10,000 a month studios even though they cannot afford it because they can always rent it to someone else for more!

99   Allah   2007 Feb 9, 4:32am  

What would be cool is if all the renters got together and formed a renters strike. All the renters could then move out of the state for the rest of the year and come back in 08' to claim your pick of the distressed FB's properties. I think that would speed things up considerably!

100   sobs   2007 Feb 9, 4:33am  

@EBGuy,

Re the age restriction on gifts to children: That was written with old rules in mind. Investment income for children 13 and under has had to be taxed on parents' return for donkey's years. The age limit has now been changed to 18. Write your Congressdroid and thank them.

101   FormerAptBroker   2007 Feb 9, 4:37am  

Sriram Gopalan Says:

> I think renters should be allowed to turn around
> and subrent their apartment.

Most apartment leases prohibit subleasing, but it is hard to stop it. Many renters in San Francisco make thousands every year renting out rent control apartments and Berkeley has even more “Tenant Landlords” making money by subleasing rooms or their entire apartments…

102   sobs   2007 Feb 9, 4:41am  

On another note entirely, my wife, sick and tired of cold and damp, decided we had to get away to sun and warm. I suggested getting in the car and driving south randomly until we encountered same but, instead, she has booked flights to Lost Wages.

I don't gamble - unless the odds are hugely in my favor, in which case it's not exactly gambling, eh? - and I'm not much into spectacle. All suggestions for worthwhile entertainment are welcomed.

I do figure I could have a lot of fun visiting desperate realtors or condo projects. I have cash. I could write pretty substantial offers without financing contingencies but only at lowball prices. What's a decent haircut? 40% off asking? 60% off asking?

103   e   2007 Feb 9, 4:57am  

In fact, some landlords would chase us away even before we parked. Luckily we found something a couple of days later for the low price for just $1750 (2 BR 2 BA) in Santa Clara.

Wow... I wasn't as lucky in the year 2000. I ended up paying $2000 with a 2 year contract for a 1.5/1.5. :(

104   lunarpark   2007 Feb 9, 5:04am  

"Which Sci-fi/Fantasy character are you?"

Yoda.
---
eburbed - I had a nice 2br in MV for $2000 back in 2000. I pay less than that now for an even nicer place in a better neighborhood.

105   EBGuy   2007 Feb 9, 5:06am  

Yesterday I said:
Don’t forget to do this with appreciated stock. Then the little ones can sell in 2008-10 and get the gains tax free. (see Anthony’s post above).
Then StuckInBA asked:
Interesting. What if they already own the stock ?

To follow on further to Punchbowls reply, if the childs unearned income is above $1700, the parents tax rates apply (this is, I believe, the "kiddie tax"). So you (well, your child) may be able to get away with selling the stock in small bits from 2008 to 2010 to keep the earned income (cap gains) under the limit. Not much help if the stock is greatly appreciated.
All this is giving me a headache. Anybody want to give a plug for the best state 529s....

Definitely NTA.
See below for more info on kiddie tax changes:
http://www.smallbusiness.adp.com/accountants/newsletter/af_sept06_2.asp

106   astrid   2007 Feb 9, 5:19am  

I would probably be Ford Perfect, with just a touch of Marvin.

Punchbowl, Zion and Grand Canyon are both within a few hours' driving of Los Vegas. If you don't mind the cold and enjoy communing with nature alone, that's certainly a possibility.

107   FormerAptBroker   2007 Feb 9, 5:33am  

ubermonkey Says:

> FormerAptBroker, In a more charitable interpretation,
> gentrification also often implies ethnic/cultural changes
> in a neighborhood. When a group starts being pushed
> out by higher land values.

I often hear people say that we need to stop gentrification so long time residents of the area will not get “pushed out”. Homeowners in California can not get “pushed out” since property taxes have nothing to do with land values. In San Francisco and Oakland rent control prohibits landlords from “pushing out” long term renters and the value of the land has almost nothing to do with the rent the landlords can charge…

> often long-established social institutions (churches, nightclubs,
> service organizations, specialty stores, etc.) are driven out
> early and are replaced by ones that are unfamiliar or hostile
> to the existing group.

With rare exceptions participation in “Long Established Social Institutions” have been dropping since the turn of the century (the book Bowling Alone talks about this). With the exception of a few Asian families and maybe a black family or two the area I grew up in on the Peninsula has not changed much yet attendance at all churches is down and most “service organizations” have all but died (most Catholic parishes used to have chapters of the Ancient Order of Hibernians, Knights of Columbus, Catholic Daughters of America and Sisters of Mary Immaculate and now they struggle to just keep the lights on). Like the rest of the country chain stores are replacing the little local stores in record numbers…

108   Peter P   2007 Feb 9, 5:34am  

I would probably be Ford Perfect, with just a touch of Marvin.

Did you take the test?

http://www.tk421.net/character/

109   StuckInBA   2007 Feb 9, 5:36am  

Marcus Cole. I have no idea who he is. :-?

But then I was never a SciFi person. My introduction to it was Foundation Trilogy. Became a fan of Asimov. The original Trilogy is on my list of best books ever. But nothing else came even close. I wasn't impressed with 2001 Space Odyssey (book) and thought other books by ACC were just OK.

Liked Start Trek, but after TNG, everything else seemed so ordinary. I have given up on SciFi TV series completely.

I am a big Star Wars fan. But I thought Fifth Element was quite idiotic. I shocked my friends by saying it and they shocked me by getting shocked.

I simply dislike fantasies. Except LOTR - which I think is awesome.

So I am not that Marcus Cole - whoever that it is. I am "love one, nothing else" person.

110   Peter P   2007 Feb 9, 5:38am  

I always loved SciFi.

I never liked Star Wars though, so you can hate me now.

Star Trek was my favorite, until I have found Serenity.

111   Peter P   2007 Feb 9, 5:40am  

I do not like the idea of a hero (or a small group of heroes) saving the world (or the universe). It is just too ... you know.

For this reason, I did not fall in love with Star Wars and 24.

112   StuckInBA   2007 Feb 9, 5:40am  

Punchbowl :

What’s a decent haircut? 40% off asking? 60% off asking?

Aren't you concerned that they might actually accept your offer ? ;-)

113   sobs   2007 Feb 9, 5:42am  

Well, it looks like I'm Data. :(

SIBA: Except LOTR - which I think is awesome.

Tried Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast trilogy?

114   sobs   2007 Feb 9, 5:44am  

Aren’t you concerned that they might actually accept your offer ?

Most certainly. But, at say 60% off and no leverage, how bad could it be?

If I buy two, will that screw up the comps for everybody? LMAO.

115   StuckInBA   2007 Feb 9, 5:45am  

Peter P,

Hate is a very strong emotion. I reserve it only for terrorists and criminals of worst sort. (No I do not _hate_ REIC.)

And you like food, and you are not vegetarian ! So we have something in common.

On other things, I think it makes sense. I like 24. So there is a pattern here.

116   StuckInBA   2007 Feb 9, 5:47am  

Tried Mervyn Peake’s Gormenghast trilogy?

Never heard of it. Will google it.

117   StuckInBA   2007 Feb 9, 5:48am  

If I buy two, will that screw up the comps for everybody?

Try the anti-fraud technique. Buy it for cash and less it for less to your wife. Then she will turn around and sell it for even less back to you. All cash transactions. That will definitely stir the pot.

118   Claire   2007 Feb 9, 5:49am  

What is LOTR?

119   Peter P   2007 Feb 9, 5:50am  

Hate is a very strong emotion.

Hate is not as strong as fear though. ;)

120   Allah   2007 Feb 9, 5:52am  

What is LOTR?
If I had to guess, Long Overdue Train Wreck.

Looks like Ohioan FB's are getting some aid!

121   Peter P   2007 Feb 9, 5:53am  

What is LOTR?

Lobster Onion and Truffle Ravioli

124   StuckInBA   2007 Feb 9, 5:55am  

What is LOTR?

It's another name for history of New Zealand.

125   StuckInBA   2007 Feb 9, 5:58am  

Looks like Ohioan FB’s are getting some aid!

Is it coming out of tax revenue ?

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