patrick.net

"Working a 6-digit engineering job is not doing well in my book."

So are we saying the a recent grad should get 7or 8 digit salary.
You got to start somewhere... why not 6 digit at first...the bottom and work yourself up.
Between 5-10 years then you get personal development and creative skills. if at all, or move to another profession.

Besides you do a great disservice to the talented vets who already have 10-15 years experience.

"Don’t bet against the creativity and ability to adapt of America and Americans."

Complancy is not what I call adapting. Too many for example are waiting for the next thing in Silicon Valley so they can join and reap the rewards.
If you have the nack you should be the ONE that will is making the next big thing in SV. Those people are very rare for find.

allah Says:

> C’mon everyone, tell this realtor on his blog why
> buying is not a good idea. He wants to know why
> people choose to rent instead.

I actually agree with this guy and I would buy if I lived in Indiana right now since when I clicked through to see the homes in the area I saw a nice 3/2 and a nice 3/3 for ~$130K (that is not much more than the sticker price of my car with all the options)…

That depends on what you mean by doing well. Working a 6-digit engineering job is not doing well in my book.

So what -is- doing well? Aside from 7 digits?

"Considering all the outsourcing, I don’t see much of a future for “these kids”. We are at the very beginning of a big fallout. No one gets out of here alive!"

Outsourcing the result of the workforce being expensive and overspending on part of employers (bad management style). Back in the day AMD overestimated the market as pure gravy 79-85 and spent like drunken sailors. Not to mention they actually had a no lay off policy. Boy were they in fairy land. No doom and gloom there... then it happened. And man did that hurt like a mother******er.

If we had good experienced managment and inexpensive salary professionals, we wouldnt need outsourcing. As long as employee costs are under constantly decaying margins we can all do well. Predictable and stable growth vs bom/bust patterns. This was much talked about by Michael Malone from his 1980's Silicon Valley programs on PBS. He later wrote this in his books.

The main problem with test taking mentality is that those kids think the "truth" is knowable and written down in a textbook somewhere. They lose the ability to step back and see the big picture. Still, probably okay for low level accounting/engineering/betatesting/fry cook...until a grease fire starts.

So are we saying the a recent grad should get 7or 8 digit salary.

No, but something more entrepreneurial would be good, even if it pays very little in the beginning.

Between 5-10 years then you get personal development and creative skills. if at all, or move to another profession.

In 5-10 years you will be have permanent head damage and no creative skills left. A house purchase will ensure that you stay put and take less risks.

If you have the nack you should be the ONE that will is making the next big thing in SV. Those people are very rare for find.

Exactly. Simply doing well in school will not help at all. In fact, it may hurt.

Where are these 6 figure making newly minted engineers again?

Can I just state again that the only newly minted graduates pulling (low) six figures are the top quartile of the graduates of top 20 law schools and top 10 biz schools. And even that's not a guarantee, they go to high pressure sink or swin situation and plenty of them sink.

The main problem with test taking mentality is that those kids think the “truth” is knowable and written down in a textbook somewhere.

Exactly.

The big enlightenment: the truth will set you BACK.

One should seek to create the truth, not to find it.

"Still, probably okay for low level accounting/engineering/betatesting/fry cook…until a grease fire starts."

Actually its the other way around. For accountants ... you learn how should it run and your experience dictates on how to approach and fix it and or implement so it doesnt turn in grease fire.

I actually agree with this guy and I would buy if I lived in Indiana right now since when I clicked through to see the homes in the area I saw a nice 3/2 and a nice 3/3 for ~$130K (that is not much more than the sticker price of my car with all the options)…

That could be true for Indiana, I didn't realize it was an Indiana realtor. The post was very general though, not specifying Indiana. Another thing, how good is the job market and salary there? I know they had some pretty high foreclosure rates there.

Astrid, the point is that most "dream jobs" of Asians are not that lucrative indeed. The number of digits in the salary is irrelevant.

I like lawyers though. ;)

Peter P,

May I ask what you do? I don't mean this in a confrontational way, as in "what makes you so great?". I am an occasional lurker and l always find myself wondering these things about the regular contributors. It wouldn't surprise me if there was an old thread along these lines, but I haven't seen it.

One more thing about test taking mentality are the "cheating is okay" or that you can find a silver bullet and win every time. It truly devalues humanity, ingenuity, ethical conduct and hard work.

May I ask what you do?

I am an engineer.

No I think after 5-10 years you get to collaberate.network and get great ideas working with others. You world does open up.

You get brain damage if you work in a bad enviroment. I been there too. Spotting the bad vs is good work place is very important. Knowing the difference is 1/3 of the cure.

The 23 yr old out of school and into hot IPO is nonsense. Its takes years of soul seaching... I worked for old guys who seen it all.

The problem today is greed... i want to be a millionair before 30....

Randy H Says:

> I’ve got other friends who are a dinc couple in the
> hinterlands of the East Bay in a McMegaMansion
> which is well under their purchase price now (they
> bought in late 05). They have probably 30-40% equity,
> and can make payments so long as both work.
> They want to move because now they’re both
> commuting well over 1.5 hours each way. They won’t
> even consider selling until they “get back to even”.

I’m just curious, do you know if their near term plan was for the wife to become a soccer mom when they bought in the East Bay?

Even if I was married to a beautiful smart woman and we both worked at Bishop Ranch it would suck to be childless and living in San Ramon (or even worse Pleasanton)…

It would be pure hell to sit on BART for an hour and a half every night looking forward to a dinner at the new Olive Garden before heading home to see the Prego floors in our “Great Room”…

John F,

It's okay, Peter P is an enigma wrapped in an astrological mystery. I still don't understand him.

Peter P,

I think truly intelligent and broad minded people are fun to hang around, regardless of their occupation. It's true that many of them end up as lawyers.

I admire Asians hard work and dedication
to groups. They are a great addition to our economy.

No I think after 5-10 years you get to collaberate.network and get great ideas working with others. You world does open up.

I agree. But I met most of my friends on the golf course, directly or indirectly, although I am a 36 handicapper. ;)

Yes, so am I. So is the CEO of my company.
Are you self employed/founder/etc? I imagine not "rank and file" like myself...

I think truly intelligent and broad minded people are fun to hang around, regardless of their occupation. It’s true that many of them end up as lawyers.

One of my best friends is a lawyer who hates lawyers. :)

Are you self employed/founder/etc?

No. But I am a self-hater. :(

Bottom Line ...
You got to have education and then relevant experience...
Creativity will either come to you (your the chosen one) or it wont (another smoe).

Pleasanton is not *that* bad, though Tri-Valley area is too hot for life long SF dwellers.

If the Future Mrs. FAB is a stay at home (or working severely reduced schedule) wife, she should learn to cook.

"I agree. But I met most of my friends on the golf course, directly or indirectly, although I am a 36 handicapper."

LOL! Want to make it big.. hang out with the Star Trek engineer crowed at conventions. I mean it!!! The talented engineers just love that stuff and cant put it down... LOL! I mean they go nuts.. on How would you make this gismo work ... they make me laugh and give me a headace..... and look what we have today.

It may be 2007 but I assure you its 1984 Revenge of the Nerds Second Edition...

I don't like sports, except hiking. I'm probably screwed as far as social networking is concerned.

Are there network opportunities in cooking or gardening?

Why can't they love good sci-fi like the Foundation Trilogy? Or even Dune?

Or Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? Then I'm all set.

No. But I am a self-hater.

I see. I am more of a playa hater myself. I knew I must have been doing something wrong.

astrid - I dont know Im only in the Accounting profession.

Are there network opportunities in cooking or gardening?

Definitely.

I heard flying is good too.

One more thing about test taking mentality are the “cheating is okay” or that you can find a silver bullet and win every time. It truly devalues humanity, ingenuity, ethical conduct and hard work.

And that's -exactly- what it's going to take to survive moving forwards in America - unless you want to be an hourly service worker.

Look at our global competition. Do they have the same values?

CEO or bust.

Space_Acer Says:

> i want to be a millionair before 30….

Here are a few tips (from someone who got there before 40)

1. Diversify (I had 90% of my net worth in RE when the market crashed in the early 90’s)
2. Learn to use the shift key (Adults use the shift key)
3. Learn to spell millionaire (There is an “e” on the end)

The talented engineers just love that stuff and cant put it down… LOL!

I still like Star Trek. Somehow I think Firefly is better. Perhaps because it paints a darker picture of the future. :)

eburbed,

Ultimately, a successful society needs humanity, ingenuity, ethical conduct and hard work. Otherwise, we're doomed and I'm off to find my money worshipping death cult.

Cheating is not okay. One should not break any rule. One should, however, seek to change rules and bend rules.

"I heard flying is good too."

As in attempting to fall and failing?

Unfortunately, I have a habit of getting deathly ill (only slightly exaggerating) on most West Coast to East Coast flights. Maybe I should network by continually flying around the world.

Ultimately, a successful society needs humanity, ingenuity, ethical conduct and hard work. Otherwise, we’re doomed and I’m off to find my money worshipping death cult.

That makes sense. You need people at the bottom of the pyramid to support those at the top. Those people can believe in that kind of stuff while they're hard at work.

Meanwhile, it's better to be... say... Bob Nardelli

As in attempting to fall and failing?

LOL!

I meant piloting.

I take sleeping pills on redeye flights. They are much cheaper than upgrades. And they work better.

Per last week's New Yorker, maybe make faux Hermes bags.

You know what is my biggest problem? I do not even know my dream career.