patrick.net

"> Not to subvert the thread, but whatever
> happened to forced labor for prisoners?"

That sort of thinking goes away when the concept of natural rights gets carried too far. We can blame the Sixties for going from equal rights to egalitarianism. The inflated expectations lead to everybody wanting more pie and no one thinking about how to pay for it.

Of course, it really doesn't help to have a Reagan era harsh drug policy in place. Most people in prison are the there for drug offenses.

HARM,

Can you please take my post out of moderation. I don't know why it didn't go through, there is only one link.

GC,

you need to see the second generation of the ruling class from China. The second and third generation of the ruling class from China are generally educated overseas and take pride in speaking fluent English to each other. Take Bo Gua Gua, the grandson of Bo Yi Bo for example, he went to a UK boarding school and now is attending Oxford.

I went to a few parties thrown by investment bankers for the grandsons and grand-daughters of the Chinese ruling class, they all speak English to each other.

Cultural colonization only takes one or two generations to complete.

Bab33,
Drug abuse is wide spread in the Bay Area, not just the street people you see. Even in more desirable areas like Palo Altos and Los Gatos, drugs by kids of rich folks is common. Cocaine was in wide spead use in my hometown of Los Gatos in the 1980s particular with very rich.

GC,

Lots have changed in the mean time, lots of kids in Shanghai are now very comfortable with English, particularly those educated with an English curriculum (even in China). In work settings, everybody seems to refer to each other by their English names. Those who are confident with their English skill seems to flaunt it.

Bap33,

Hmmm, if they decriminalized drugs (like Europe) and make dealing less lucrative, there wouldn't be so many violent drug dealers and gang wars.

I'm not morally justifying using hard drugs, but I don't think the government should intrude in people's self destructiveness. Government intrusions have just made the matter worse.

It's not clear how many grandchildren of the old ruling elite (and children of the new ruling elite) will lead China. I think the vast majority are simply packed off with a lot of money (embezzled from the state) to live abroad. They might visit from time to time, but I'm not sure many would stick around. Lots of laid off factory workers would certainly like to tear into a piece of these little spoilt brats.

The Micheal Savage kook/troll is back.

I’m not morally justifying using hard drugs, but I don’t think the government should intrude in people’s self destructiveness. Government intrusions have just made the matter worse.

Yep. So long as they are not affecting others I am fine with that.

We should focus on removing violent criminals from the streets. I am a firm believer of capital punishment, although I think they need to make things a little more speedy. Having convicts on death row for decades is a pure waste of tax money.

One more thing, it is perfectly fine to decriminalize things that are not morally justified. The goal is to make the world a better place. People should be educated to do the right thing. The law should function to prevent wrongdoings from affecting the society as a whole.

I do think public school should teach religious studies. Young people do need some moral guidance.

HARM,

I asked you to take my post out of moderation, not delete it.

Jon Says:

Costco - fat asses, fat-assed SUVs in the parking lot, people who have nothing to live for save their next skid of twinkies and a re-run of Big Momma’s House.

No thank you.
_____

Here in Phoenix, an overweight Sam's Club (kissing cousin of Costco) shopper suffered a massive heart attack and keeled right over and died on the floor.

Despite the dramatic inconvenience of the situation, the soulless consumers went busily about their vacuous business, and hardly broke pace in their mad dash to stuff their fat faces with free egg roll samples...

I sh-t you not.

justme Says:

Michael Holliday,

Come on, now. You didn’t have anything to say about all the republican/conservative business owners that love the cheap illegal labor, but then somehow are able to talk out the other side of their mouth about the “damn illegals”, and complaining that the “liberals” are doing nothing about it.

The solution to the whole problem is to apply the law and punish anyone that employs illegal immigrants. Will you sign up for that?
_____

I didn't mention it because of brevity. But remember, it's both Repub and Dem fat cats. It's unethical power/money whores in both camps. When Clinton was taking heat from New Gingrich for screwing around with Monica Lewinsky while married to Hillary, Gingrich (or is it Gingrinch?) was cheating on his own (dying of cancer?) wife and having an affair.

There's too many people on the take now. It's becoming like ancient Rome, only worse. Our downfall won't take four centuries. It will be a lot faster because of the rapid pace and intensity of our own moral implosion, coupled with high technology (which is able to close distance and knowlege gaps quicker) and the power of financial leverage.

This country is quickly losing its soul, and not many people even care. I think California, except for certain enclaves whose population still maintains a modicum of moral/ethical wherewithal, is a key player in the misery game called The Death of Western Civilization, where there are no winners and only losers.

Most drugs are very addictive. If you allowed drug use to the public, a good chunk of those people would eventually fall into social disrepair and depend on welfare. How many hardcore stoners do you know who actually hold a high-paying job? Comparatively, how many hardcore stoners do you think are on welfare?

If you cut out the social safety net of welfare, and then legalized an addiction that drove people to poverty, the crime rates in this country would soar. You would have an underclass of addicted people with no means of survival, save for violence and especially theft.

Just finished reading the local Sunday paper (Alamo, Danville). It looks as if asking prices on homes are increasing. Zillow does not corroborate the higher prices at this point. Many more listings are available this week, so maybe the prices are unrealistic.

Well....

Guess what... I finally buckled. My wife finally talked me into bidding on this house and she really wanted it, so we bid 10% over. Just found our offer was accepted. New home, here we come!

Brand Says:

> Most drugs are very addictive.

Most (but all) dugs are not very addictive. Growing up on the SF Peninsula in the 70’s (where we were second in the nation to Marin for teen drug use) and going to college in the East Bay in the 80’s (where we were probably #1 in college student drug use) dam near everyone used LOTS of drugs. With the exception of a few people that probably belong to more wine clubs than they should and who will drink more than they should a party with an open bottle of (17 yr +) single malt I don’t know anyone addicted to drugs…

> If you allowed drug use to the public, a good chunk
> of those people would eventually fall into social
> disrepair and depend on welfare.

Time for a reality check…”Does anyone really think that there are lots of potential drug addicts out there who would be smoking crack or using meth if only it was legal?”

> How many hardcore stoners do you know who
> actually hold a high-paying job?

None, since there is not a single person with a high-paying job working his ass off and waiting for the day that he can buy legal Humboldt green bud…

Then Jon Says:

> I also note that the vast majority of people who
> advocate the legalization/taxation of hard drugs
> don’t use them.

I’ve noticed just the opposite, and would say that I’ve met very few people who don’t use drugs that are pushing to make them legal (mention that you have a bong in the car at a Libertarian Party or NORML event and you will clear the room…

Yeah, I agree with FAB here (is this a first?). I lived in the student Co-Ops when I was a student at Berkeley and I think every single person that went through there tried some sort of "hard" drug at one point or another.

The vast majority of us have gone on to be successful doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, city planners, teachers and non-profit activists. I only know of one guy who had any serious problems with drugs and his drug of choice is alchohol.

The rave scene is full of people who use ecstasy, mushrooms and acid and advocate for the legalization of drugs. Many of them are successful in their chosen career. Some of them are burnouts, sure, but show me a sector of society that does not have some kind of problem with people abusing drugs.

I think Oakland's main problem is the crime associated with drugs being illegal, not the drug use itself. If it weren't for drug prohibition, the prices would come down to the same level as a bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 and people could "spare change" to get their high, instead of committing burglary. In Amsterdam, they give heroin addicts free drugs and their crime rate has come down because of it.

I guess congratulations are in order SFBubbleBuyer. Looks like you got a relatively large place in a good school district for what passes for a good price in the Silly Valley land of real estate.

I doubt it will appreciate much in price over the next decade, but you already know that. Sometimes the intangables are worth it.

I think it would be a good exercise for the libertarians to build a ‘utopia’ community where all drugs are legal and freely available. I’d love to watch that lesson learned.

Isn't that pretty close to what The Netherlands is today? They seem to be doing fine, quite a bit better in many ways than the US, in fact.

Well….

April fools!!!!!!! :roll:

Allah, you are quick on the uptake. :D

SFBubbleBuyer Says:

Well….

Guess what… I finally buckled. My wife finally talked me into bidding on this house and she really wanted it, so we bid 10% over. Just found our offer was accepted. New home, here we come!
_____

Good luck!

_____

Jimbo Says:

...I lived in the student Co-Ops when I was a student at Berkeley and I think every single person that went through there tried some sort of “hard” drug at one point or another.

The vast majority of us have gone on to be successful doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, city planners, teachers and NON-PROFIT ACTIVISTS.
_____

WTF?

You mean some liberal "legalize Marijuana now," so-called-peace-activist social anarchist now has the moral and intellectual equivalence of an honorable doctor, lawyer and engineer?

M. Holliday: "Pardon me, sir. What is it that you do for a living?"

Person #1: "I'm a writer..."

M. Holliday: "Yes, I see! In other words you're unemployed right now."

M. Holliday: "And what is it that you do?"

Person #2: "Oh, I'm a professional peace activist. And I don't believe in big, organized religion; I'm spiritual."

M. Holliday: "Oh, you're a professional anti-war rabble rouser, pro-abortionist with no morality. But you believe in big sister Hillary Clinton."

Go figure!

Sure, society needs its professional agitators just as much as any other function. The Right has its think tanks, the Left its non-profits and universities. People like Mission Housing do the world a lot of good. This is how a healthy democracy functions.

I am curious Mr. Holliday, what do you do for a living? You have the marks of "professional shit stirrer" written all over you.

But no welfare or aide or free lunch to druggies or thier born-hooked kids.

Bap33, I think welfare itself is worse than drugs. True, there should be welfare for productive members of the society who are down pathologically unlucky, but in general welfare should be as restricted as dangerous drugs.

On second thought denying welfare to druggies is a good start nonetheless. :)

Admission to a brand-name college is viewed by many parents, and their children, as holding the best promise of professional success and economic well-being in an increasingly competitive world.

Again, success is about bypassing competitors, not winning competitions.

Competitive employees are excellent corporate servants though.

1- The majority of the “good school districts worshippers” will end up in The hopeless rat race (that is based on the wrong assumption that getting into a selective college do enhance one’s future lifetime income….)

I agree.

Rats, allah beat me to calling April Fool's on SFBB. :)

You mean some liberal “legalize Marijuana now,” so-called-peace-activist social anarchist now has the moral and intellectual equivalence of an honorable doctor, lawyer and engineer?

Mike, I would support the decriminalization of Marijuana, although I would never go near any drug.

I am a libertarian, which is not the same as an anarchist. I gave up hope on peace already and now I see warfare as a necessarily process.

I am a crappy engineer though.

FAB says: [My friend in favor of legalization] points out that some heroin and meth users are able to lead otherwise perfectly normal lives and that it should be sold and taxed like anything else.

There is a subset of stimulant users that are actually self-medicating for various neurochemical issues (these tend to be the same folks who are addicted to nicotene and caffeine). And I agree that there is a certain part of the population that doesn't get unbreakable addictions to drugs. But in college I knew a few people who really wanted to quit and couldn't. Legalize hardcore drugs and you will just increase the number of true addicts.

Jimbo: Have you actually been to Amsterdam? Which cities?

Good prank SFBubblebuyer. Feel for it hook, line and stinker.

Brand,

Yes, I have been to The Netherlands a number of times. I have been to Amsterdam like five times, Rotterdam, The Hague and a couple of small agricultural villages that I cannot remember the name of. I really like the Dutch and think they have a pretty neat society going there.

New thread: April is the clueless month

theotherside Says:

Admission to a brand-name college is viewed by many parents, and their children, as holding the best promise of professional success and economic well-being in an increasingly competitive world.

Peter P. Replies:

Again, success is about bypassing competitors, not winning competitions.

COMPETETIVE EMPLOYEES ARE EXCELLENT CORPORATE SERVANTS THOUGH.
_____

Yes! Very astute observation.

They are born and bred to be servants of the globalist grand design

I'm just happy to see tOs get suckered by an April Fools joke. Joke's on you.

Someone Said:

> I think it would be a good exercise for the libertarians to
> build a ‘utopia’ community where all drugs are legal and
> freely available. I’d love to watch that lesson learned.

Then Jimbo Says:

> Isn’t that pretty close to what The Netherlands is today?
> They seem to be doing fine, quite a bit better in many
> ways than the US, in fact.

The Netherlands is mostly white and has lots of drugs, but not a lot of problems. Grateful Dead shows were mostly white and had a lot of drugs, but not a lot of problems.

West Oakland and Hunters Point are mostly black and have a lot of drugs and have a lot of problems. The only politically correct thing we can blame is the drugs.

String Cheese Incident and Fish fans and UHS kids in Presidio Heights use more drugs per person than the gang members in West Oakland and Hunters Point, but don’t shoot each other as much…

Brand Says:

> FAB says: [My friend in favor of legalization] points out that
> some heroin and meth users are able to lead otherwise
> perfectly normal lives and that it should be sold and taxed
> like anything else.

I didn’t say this, since I have heard of functioning heroin users I have never heard of anyone who has going for a long time using meth without crashing hard. Meth is evil stuff that will melt your brain and turn an otherwise normal person in to a suicidal maniac (as a landlord and property manager I’ve had way more contact with meth users then I would have liked to have)…

Oops, sorry. I checked the posts and I was quoting Jon. Sorry, FAB.

Jon and Brand,

I'm not advocating drug usage, just arguing that over twenty years into a failed policy of drug criminalization has done very little good and an awful lot of harm by making narcotic distribution into a highly profitable business.

Anybody in this country who wants drugs can get it already. If seeing what drug does to a person doesn't discourage them, the vague chance of getting arrested for usage will not change their minds.

SFBB,

LOL! That's an ugly house.

Jimbo Says:

I am curious Mr. Holliday, what do you do for a living? You have the marks of “professional shit stirrer” written all over you.
_____

Good observation. I'm on break from doing a conservative talk show on an AM station in Arizona, for recreation.

I'm employed at a defense contractor as a Project Analyst.

I'm not pointing my finger saying, "I'm better than you, I'm gainfully employed, etc."

I'm not like that. I'm just highlighting some left-wing stereotypes that happen to be true.

Fair enough. Project analyst at a defence contractor seems like pretty real world work to me, but what do I know? I mostly have worked at startups.