patrick.net

yo peter p,

u r the lame 1. gen x sux. gen y rulz. we r the spawn of the boomers (TM). we r the boomers' revenge on you lame gen xers. lol

Hey, FAB are you a moderator and can see my email address? If so, can you contact me directly so I can ask you a question about apartment rental rates. We are thinking of doing a kitchen remodel and I am trying to figure out how much it would increase the rental on the place when we move out.

Jimbo Says:

> Hey, FAB are you a moderator and can
> see my email address?

I’m not a moderator…

> We are thinking of doing a kitchen remodel and
> I am trying to figure out how much it would increase
> the rental on the place when we move out.

I can’t answer a question like this without a lot more information. If you are adding 50 square of floor space and replacing the hot plate and dorm fridge in a Pacific Heights view unit with a Viking range and Sub Zero fridge you will get a lot more rent, but if you spend the big bucks on Amberwood Cabinets and add a Miele dishwasher to a decent looking kitchen in the Richmond District you might not get a penny more. The best way to find out if adding a remodeled kitchen will get you any more rent is to call for rent ads and look at units to see if the places with nice kitchens are getting much more in rent…

Most of us would not say that our Grandparents were “lame” since most of them could actually get things done. One hundred years ago you could drop most Americans out in the wilderness and they could build a shelter and kill animals for food.

There are some sharp Generation Y kids but almost all would die in the wilderness and many would die of starvation if you just unplugged the microwave and locked them in an apartment with a freezer full of frozen food (since they would have to figure out how to plug the microwave back in or use the stove and oven)…

I think there'll be a major Asiago related Gen-Y die off. Somehow Parmesan and Romano is not pretentious enough.

A hundred years ago, my ancestors were gawking at the funny American/German missionaries.

I think we've got as much Gen-Yer equity extraction as we're likely to get for a while. Once their parental cash spigot turns off due to the bubble deflation, they'll be broke.

That will be sweet indeed. I've read way too many NYT about Gen-Y snowflakes with no real job, no depth, and one heck of an entitlement complex living in $750,000 co-ops.

One hundred years ago you could drop most Americans out in the wilderness and they could build a shelter and kill animals for food.

A majority of those who continue to grow up in the rural farmlands of the interior still have these skills. I learned these things 3 decades ago, and fewer but still most kids continue to learn them today from my original whereabouts. There are few things I'd be so bold as to make a direct comparison about, but I'd wager that my skills at scooping the innards out of large, yet warm mammals exceed those 99.999% of anyone who grew up in the Bay Area, not to mention proper care and maintenance of big scary knives and assorted long barrel boom sticks.

So my question is, short of terrible catastrophe or nuclear war (which somehow manages to not irradiate me), of what specific use are these skills in the world of today? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have them. Kind of an insurance policy. And I'll teach my son some of these skills too, but inevitably only a smaller percentage of them.

It used to be that fletching arrows was a vital skill, too. Over time, things change. Of course, someday, somewhere, someone will get trapped or lost and save themselves only because they know how to fletch an arrow. But many millions more will survive every day because they developed advanced defensive driving skills.

I can ride a horse really well too, bareback; and I know how to actually take care of a horse and keep it happy and healthy. That skill will only be useful if I buy a ranch, which most likely won't be a matter of life or death survival. But knowing how to change my own tire or being smart enough to evacuate a car upon first sign of a fire could actually save my own and others lives.

I'd say they're lame because America as a whole has become lame. Hamstrung by debt, nobody seems to understand the solution is to 'get out of debt' instead of refinancing. It's been a problem since the 70's. SNL even understands the problem, yet people don't get it.

Growing up in a society where debt fueled consumerism isn't just acceptable, or encouraged, but is the defacto norm is what makes current americans 'lame' regardless of their generation. Boomers, Xers, Yers, it doesn't matter. The majority of them are loaded with retarded amounts of debt, a lot of it for stuff that's stupid.

And recently, the only really 'good' debt available to your average american, i.e. mortgages, became a finance tool designed to let you keep pushing debt into your house. Yes, it makes sense to refinance 23% credit card debt into a 6.5% fixed rate... except them 90% of the people then go out and rack up some more 23% debt.

When I went to apply for a mortgage pre-approval, I had a hard time convincing the guy that I had no debt. And that was at an actual bank. Talking to internet lenders over the phone is worse. They start off by saying how they'll be able to refinance all your credit card debt, car payments, and student loans into one low payment.

Having little to no debt is exotic now. And that's why every american (on average) is so lame.

Gen Y is mostly disaffected. We're going to have some kind of hippie backlash from that entire generation. They may be entitled, but sooner or later the little feebs are going to figure out that consumerism is inflicting more misery than it removes.

Randy H Says:

> It used to be that fletching arrows was a vital skill, too.
> Over time, things change. Of course, someday,
> somewhere, someone will get trapped or lost and
> save themselves only because they know how to
> fletch an arrow. But many millions more will survive
> every day because they developed advanced defensive
> driving skills.

I have not heard the word “fletch” since I was a little kid (my Dad got out of competitive archery in the early 70’s and his old recurve bow, and arrow making supplies have been packed away in the basement since then)…

I don’t think that there is a person out there who makes his own arrows that won’t at least try and fix a jammed copier. One of the lame Gen Y kids at the office last week went over to get an IT guy last week when his computer screen went black and it started beeping.

The (Gen X) IT guy told me that it turns out that the Gen Y kid kicked the plug out of the wall and the UPS started beeping since it thought there was a power outage.

> But knowing how to change my own tire or being smart
> enough to evacuate a car upon first sign of a fire could
> actually save my own and others lives.

I bet most Gen Y kids can’t even find the spare tire on their car (we had fun watching a trust fund Gen Y kid try and find the spare on his M Roadster at an autocross at the Marina Airport a couple years back) much less have any idea what to do with it if they got it out of the car. If the doors are locked and the battery falls out of the remote most Gen Y kids will bun to death pushing the clicker trying to unlock the doors…

bun = burn

BigBrother,

I have two points/questions for you:

First, thanks for referring us to that SFGate article. I particularly like how all the "data" are anecdotes from local Realtors (TM). Now that's believeable! About as believeable sas the anecdotes about your "Colleagues" looking to buy in the city.

Anecdotal evidence - it's the last refuge of the housing bull.

Second, which realtor's (TM) office do you work for?

BigBrother,

Oh, and by the way, if you do indeed want some actual data, check this out:

http://www.housingtracker.net/

Looks like in San Jose, right now inventory is 19% higher and asking prices are down $50K compared to the same time last year. For SF, inventory is up 24% and asking prices are down $55K compared to the same time last year.

Sorry.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_5621463

The economy is strong because people are shopping at Santana Row.

Uh...

lunarpark,

It's just more rah-rah boosterism from a lame (to borrow a gen-y phrase) MSM outlet. It almost smells of desperation when they can't find any hard data to show the economy is actually doing well and they have to rely on interviewing merchants at the mall.

skibum, that was a silly question to BigBrother. A better question would be if he is still confused about renting, or wants our opinions please. Frankly, the poker nights are still fun in prime areas near the marina.

Don't forget GenX was the original video game generation. I credit the Atari 2600 console with two things which defined much about the rest of my life:

1. I decided from a very early age that watching TV was usually more boring than playing games on the television. Even today I probably watch 2-3 hours per week of television on a big week.

2. I became curious about how video games worked so I taught myself how to program. I wrote my first computer game for the TRS80-II when I was 12 (which I later ported to OS/9 TRS-80 CoCo, and sold my first 'Software License' by 14 by submitting my game to a number of home computer hobbyist magazines). It was a Rogue/Net Hack type of game only with star ships, in case anyone's interested.

Randy,

I think the skills that you learnt from growing up on a farm are very very cool, and useful in a fundamental way, it puts you in touch with nature, and human nature. People I know who know how to survive out in the wild tend to cut through crap much faster, and see things as they are. I wish I had that kind of skills since I grew up in a concrete jungle. You are benefiting from them, just that you don't realize it.

I hope that I can be rich enough to own a ranch one day and pick up all that you've already had under your belt.

I'm always hostile when people not making much more than me decides to HELOC a $50K SUV or large truck for their little princess. That directly threatens my safety, in more than one way.

A big part of Gen-Y's lameness is their conformity. Even their "rebelliousness" is prefabricated (or maybe Pulte stick-built).

BB,

what sfgate says is true. As we have long predicted on this site, the "prime" spots, typically western foothills of the Bay Area, are much more sheltered from the fall compared to the rest. It doesn't mean that they won't be affected in the end, just that it will take much longer.

What I observed is, inventory is still quite scarce in the "prime" spots, any home under $1.5M in a reasonable condition will get sold very fast. We will see how long this will last.

Yes, if everyone is a rebel, perhaps the true rebels are us "old school" types? :o

I was speaking with a Gen-X physician a couple days ago on a three hour flight. The good doctor said that the latest batch of American med students who were Gen-Y are going to be an interesting group to watch. They are not as fanatically devoted to the patient as the Gen-X generation was trained to be. The attitude of a Gen-Y resident was, "oh, my shift is over, okay, see ya" whereas when the Gen-X doctors were going through their residency they were trained to think nothing, nothing mattered more than the patient right in front of them at the moment; not "work life balance", not a hot date, not dinner, not sleep, not even family.

On the other hand, the Indian radiologists the doctor worked with of the same generation had that same attitude. And were better than their American counterparts at reading a chart. If this doctor had a choice in who read their chart, it would be an Indian radiologist, every time.

OO,

I don't think farm life makes people more clear eyed about things other than farm work. It's best not to romanticize that life style. Just try to talk about agriculture subsidies, import restrictions or western water rights. Farmers have blindsights just like everybody else. The main difference is that they know meat does not grow in grocery meat sections.

I think the work-life balance is a good practice. People can only work so hard each day and each hour after the first 9 or 10 or 12 is probably not very valuable. A better balance would help cut down the wastefully high burnout rate in many professions. Not to say you should leave your patient in the middle of an unexpectly long surgery or a major court case, but medical residents shouldn't be working 100 hour work weeks and new associates (IB, law, consulting) shouldn't be required to bill 2,500 hours a year.

What is the generation after Y?

I have a feeling that the generation after Y will be the greatest generation in the making, just like the Great Generation going through the 1929 depression in their childhood, the post-Y gen will grow up in the upcoming worldwide depression.

That's if everybody survives a nuclear holocaust first...

Another thing, can somebody explain Good Charlotte. I would prefer not to listen to them to find the source of their lameness.

BB,
I remember how ConfusedRenter would always talk about encountering "hostility" after his/her nice walks in the city - sounds very familiar to me. ;)

what sfgate says is true. As we have long predicted on this site, the “prime” spots, typically western foothills of the Bay Area, are much more sheltered from the fall compared to the rest.

OO,

While this may be true, "what SFGate says" is not necessarily true. I doubt there will be a significant "Spring Bounce" (TM) even in the "Prime" locations. THey will hold their own, while the sub-Prime (pun intended) locations will noticeably tank. Afterwards, things will get interesting.

Muggy,

Maybe it's the revenge of Jebediah Purdy.

astrid was X/Yish, but they're Scottish and defunct so they probably don't count

I wonder what Mick Jagger thinks about before he falls asleep every night...

I think Gen Y is going to be really unbelievable proficient with computer and the Internet. I started using the Internet back before it was called that, but most young people are at least as proficient as me. At my last job, we had a 17 year old kid who we hired as a Network Engineer and he was very good. I got to talking to him and realized that he was also almost as good a System Administrator as me, too and I had been doing that for seven years! Turns out he got his first computer when he was seven and started programming when he was nine. I didn't do anything like that until I got to college.

We are still only in the early stages of the Internet revolution and I think that Gen Y is going to be the ones who grow up online and will really figure out how to make good use of them.

Yeah, the flip side is that most will not know anything about working with tools, hunting, raising livestock, or anything hands on. There are still plenty of places, like Wyoming, where I mostly grew up, where people will use those skills, but they will mostly be irrelevant to modern life.

Jimbo,

Maybe...but how are they at planning and large scale things. Any generation of younger people will be quicker mentally compared to someone twenty years their senior, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be able to handle more complex problems quite as well. (Though perhaps your 17 year old is exceptional).

OO,

Just to clarify (being I'm not anonymous and don't want some swiftboaters popping up 20 years from now torpedoing me for claiming 'I was a farmer'):

I was not a farmer and didn't grow up on a farm. I grew up in a tiny little farm town, but I was a "city boy". The center of the community was farming, and fathers like mine who commuted over an hour into the big city to work (mostly auto, aerospace or defense like my dad) were the exception. I worked on farms every summer from age 12 - 17, including a pig farm, grain farms, and a strawberry & raspberry orchard. The last was by far the shittiest, incidentally, and the only time I got seriously injured. Many of my friends were farmers. My best friend was a pig farmer. I was sometimes jealous of him, except for the time he let me assist in the 'honor' of castrating the piglets. But it was he who was laughing when one of his hogs won 1st place at the State Fair and he bought a brand new IROC Z* for cash, and still had enough left over to go to the prom. I drove my 1978 Ford Granada to the prom (but my date was way hotter).

*Car Translation: An IROC Z in the mid 80s in rural Ohio was the status equivalent of an M3, because if you drove a BMW you'd (a) get your ass kicked, (b) get your sunroof smashed in or (c) have nowhere to get it serviced. IROC Z's were only trumped by 68 Firebirds or pickup trucks which required step ladders to get into.

My wife did grow up on a farm. She can drive things with all those extra pedals and levers. I cannot.

Robert!

Gen Y doctors busting ass for an extra bit of patient care gets the CEO a nice bonus and every other Gen Y employee a new productivity chart based on the new effort level demonstrated.

My oh my. Sounds like you and I could playact a Vonnegut novel. You can take up the cause of the workers in defense of humanistic capitalism and I'll defend the emergent technocracy which silently benefits those very disaffected workers.

Eric,

That one is new to us. Thanks.

But if your house has been working hard to earn you $100K of tax free dollars a year, don't you deserve to blow a measly $50,000 on a suburban and another $20,000 on a nice long Tahitian vacation?