patrick.net

Or perhaps we are energy beings after all. The physically world may be an illusion.

Even if this were true, the fact that you experience the physical universe, well...physically, makes the idea moot. If you jump off a building you will fall to the ground and die, because of gravity, imagined, illusionary, or real, all the same.

This is the problem I have with the postmodernists. The difference between something *real* and something *illusionary-but-perceived-exactly-as-if-real* is inconsequential.

Question: "But we could all be just dust in the wind. Isn't that deep?"

Answer: "No. Who cares. Quit smoking so much pot while watching adult swim, thinking you've discovered something profound".

GC, have you looked through all the regulatory requirements yet?

This is the problem I have with the postmodernists.

This is why I am a sophist, not a postmodernist.

Even if this were true, the fact that you experience the physical universe, well…physically, makes the idea moot. If you jump off a building you will fall to the ground and die, because of gravity, imagined, illusionary, or real, all the same.

Then what really separates this universe from Second Life? :)

I think SL has gravity too.

Hey Peter, I think I had the same argument with my brother once. That whole, perception is the reality nonsense. I used the same counter, I don't care what your perception is, if you jump off that building you will die regardless of whether you perceive it as tall or illusionary.

Malcolm, you are right.

Actually, if a person truly believes that perception is reality he will be actively trying to change his thinking in order to improve reality.

Anyhow, I am not a good postmodernist. I am a pragmatist.

Peter, why do you consider yourself a sophist. That doesn't have a good connotation.

Actually GC, I think your position is kind of clever. How about this angle? If the guy is jumping off the building to prove the perception is reality, and he splatters on the ground he has failed to prove it, and the fact that he died before he figured it out is +1 for Darwinism. Since we are then left laughing at his stupidity, I would conclude his argument falls short, pardon the pun.

Peter, why do you consider yourself a sophist. That doesn’t have a good connotation.

Astrid called me a sophist. I assumed she would not call me anything bad. Oh well.

But, before that computation could terminate, the processor blue-screened. So the man died happily believing his prior notion.

Blue screen? Whose fault is that? ;)

Ha ha. I don't know that it is bad, it just means that you would try to win an argument by your charisma verses solid logic and support. I kind of consider Penn and Teller to be sophists.

Ha ha. I don’t know that it is bad, it just means that you would try to win an argument by your charisma verses solid logic and support.

If I had the required charisma I do not mind being a little facts-challenged. ;)

I'm normally suspicious of people who throw the labels around verses just saying what's on their mind. I'm kind of tired of the term 'straw man' being thrown around everytime someone wants to sound enlightened.

You'd be a sophist if the Sushi Guild of America made you their spokesperson.

Malcolm Says:
I also recently heard an interesting stat, that out of the guys under 30, 1/3rd of them are not getting laid.

Despite what you read in the stoopid glossy magazines, where the 'surveys' show that everyone is having sex all the time, that there are no STIs or risks and that relationships are just incidental... everyone in this world is attractive, and if you go more than 2 weeks without astonishing sex with a total stranger, it's just statistically aberrent...

GC, because of the point of view. It sounded to me like the guy killed himself without being convinced by everyone else, I put the burden on him to prove it, so it doesn't matter to me whether he was convinced since the proof is what killed him.

If someone asserts that reality is not real it is up to them to prove it, not for me to prove it is real.

I'd rant about how this silly thinking is a product of the UC system, but I can only handle a couple of people wanting to string me up at a time, so I won't say it.

My poor brother, he got a communications degree from UCSD, and it literally made him a poorer communicator. I don't know if it is the courses or if he just didn't show up for them. What a waste of time for him.

This is the problem I have with the postmodernists. The difference between something *real* and something *illusionary-but-perceived-exactly-as-if-real* is inconsequential.

Isn't that more the phenomenalists or empiricists? That movement dates back centuries. e.g.

After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley's ingenious sophistry to prove the nonexistence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it -- "I refute it thus."

James Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson Book 3

The postmodernists more question 'the document' and 'claims to knowledge' than the fact of existence or phenomena themselves... ref. Foucault and Derrida...

Anyhow, I am not a good postmodernist. I am a pragmatist.

erm, couldn't you be both? foucault is an ultra-pragmatist and ultra-realist when it comes to analysing politcs and power claims... that's what the whole thing's about -- removing the veil of BS from pronouncements from pollies and other 'textual' information such as the newspapers...

Different Sean:
It was just thrown out on one of those radio shows and it was surprising to me, that's all. There was no judgment or opinion on my part either way. I'm just the messenger, I didn't write it.

Actually, one does not necessarily need facts and logic to reach agreement from the other guy. One does not even need to communicate well. So long as the other guy gives in you have achieved your goal.

I guess you are a sophist.

You don't even need him to give in, just for the mob to think he did. Just shout over him, that's the way to win an argument.

Peter P is an ironic sophist with a sense of humor.

I, on the other hand, am just an old fashioned asshole.

That's why I love debating online. The loudest anyone can get IS TO WRITE IN ALL CAPS, MAYBE ADD SOME FROWNIES.

Has anyone seen the 'until their 4' 9 use a booster chair' ads. I thought it was 60 pounds. There are a lot of people especially women who are 4'9. That seems kind of tall for a car seat.

I, on the other hand, am just an old fashioned asshole.

Huh? Oh, that's right. You made all those avatars cry. You meanie!

I'm just self centered. Not selfish though, but I am the center of my universe. Oh wait, my perceived universe, which is real to me.

I’m just self centered. Not selfish though, but I am the center of my universe. Oh wait, my perceived universe, which is real to me.

Who isn't? Until you have that out-of-body experience, you SHOULD be self-centered.

I'm still making them cry. I just picked up an angry Latvian/Finnish fanboi stalker recently who keeps sending me barely comprehensible rantings about how evol I be.

My last reply to him was something along the line of:

"muhahahahahaha"

I had the beginnings of one as a child. It was very interesting, even had the sense that I could know anything I wanted to ask, what a time to get a mental block, normally I ask too many questions.

Randy, are you taunting the FBs again?

Randy, you should frame some of those masterpiece rants.

LOL

I actually don't taunt many FBs, unless they are named Casey and make a blog parade out of it.

I do taunt stuffed hair shirt academics and weeping fatso fanbois who think a computer game with jerky, clunky graphics represents a brave new world in which they are the future playboys and oligarchs.

I really need to check out this SL thing. I was always fine just playing monopoly.

Perhaps Patrick should open a shop on SL. I suspect they may soon have housing bubbles.

Not if their reality is that house prices go up 15% per year just because they do. I wonder if David Lereah is a sophist?

i begun to think edmunds.com had localised content, but no...

Full Test: 2007 Holden Commodore SS

RE: Holden

Wow. I hope they have more seafood shipments from down under as well.