patrick.net

My dad's family is from northern WI/MN, and let's just say that the ol' family tree gets a little...tangled the farther back you go.

I don't know if the relatives were married, but let's just say they didn't require a legal ceremony to establish a relationship of kinship.

It's not just an Appalachian thing.

To me another thing that makes a place beautiful are the people. If the people suck, then the place becomes ugly pretty fast. Some of the most "beautiful" places I've ever lived were in jack-nowhere. Like Harriman, Tennesee, a little former coal mining town that was pretty dirty and dillapidated. The neighbors came out and talked to me the first day. There was a parade that everyone took part in( so there wasn't many to watch) and when it snowed, they shut down main street so the kids could ride their sleds around. That was 10 years ago and I still remember it like it was yesterday.

Where is the CRASH ? The Dataquik report is out and this is for March 2006

No crash in Kalifornia. Never.

Kalifornia Roll (with Krab), banzai!

Astrid,

You mean we're not allowed to make this crap up as we go along?

Garth,

Is that a pot shot at me or at the thread?

BA Trader Joe's carry sour Jelly Bellies.

Nancy Pelosi

Willie Brown

Grey Davis

Antonio Villagairosa

Gavin Newsom

Cruz Bustamonte

Bob Dornan

Tom Hayden

Arianna Huffington

California affords opportunities that transcend class and socioeconomics barriers.

Of course. People are free to do things so long as somebody's cake is not touched.

I have got mine and you cannot have yours.

Barbara Boxer

The 2003 recall election

The entire proposition system!

Rent control.

Earthquakes, wild fires, and landslides. (creative destruction, don't yah know)

Happy cows and Californian cheese.

But SFWoman,

With so many ARMs, even if high inflation occurs, nominal prices will still go down in the short term due to desperate house-debtors.

Why would anyone get an ARM at a higher rate?

Are the fees and closing costs the same?

Perhaps people just like to pay more.

"I noticed on their little mortgage sign board that ARMs were higher than fixed rate mortgages"

Wow! That's pretty incredible.

Anyways, so many people already stretched themselves thin on their home purchase and made a bad bet about future ARM rates. These people will be forced to sell or be foreclosed when their ARM rate readjusts upward.

Short of hyper-inflation, I still see a scenario where RE will not go down a lot at some point. This credit bubble can only go on for so long.

I was just bringing the kids to have them put money in their little passbook accounts.

Good financial education. :)

Astrid said,

Is that a pot shot at me or at the thread?

No pot shots.

I've found that in haste I have written "stuff" that I can't connect back to reality when the meds wear off. But consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

Joe Schmoe,

I am reminded of the Sesame Street tune:

Some of these things belong together, some of these things are kind of the same.

Bob Dornan?

Garth,

Okay. I don't mind criticism of my "Hawaii" goof, my proofreading skills are definitely below average.

Oh yes, speaking of politicians, also David Drier, Mayor Newsom, the Mayor of Pleasanton...

Maybe I should throw in some notorious serial killers and proximity to movie stars to round off the interesting people factor...

Cali has San Quentin ...and all of its inhabitants....

"California affords opportunities that transcend class and socioeconomics barriers.

There is no nation on earth as balanced and blessed as is the nation-state of California."

I would agree with this statement up until now. The only reason that this was true is that up until the last 10 years, The US was largely fragmented due to economic. socioeconomic, and even physical barriers. Freeway systems didn't exsist in any great number in the entire SE as late as the 1970's. The populations in many parts of the country were not only underdeveloped, but based mostly in extractive, and textile related industries. The SE and midwest were fully taken advantage of by northern states and it's cheap labor is still a major draw for manufactors since the end of the cival war.In the last 10 years, the country has become more solidified and the extremes you mention are becoming a little gray.California and other traditional areas simply got a head start. That's all.
In the last 10 years, more new economic and infrastructural growth has occured in regions and states in the country conversly to traditional economic powerhouses. In essence, California is losing a lot of it's edge. This was occuring before the housing boom, and was only accentuated with its arrival. Immigrants are now starting to bypass traditional gateways and move inward.Nashville, Dallas, Ann Arbor, Raleigh, Montgomery, and a hundreds other micropolitan areas are becoming reknowned for their family friendly atmospheres and opportunities to immigrants that can rise above the poverty level much easier than in CA. Micropolitans are the new force in the US.Business can operate as much as 50% cheaper outside of California. Instantly. They are more efficient, have room to develop new industries, have in some cases no NIMBY politics that make doing business and making new housing expensive, and they are in many ways newer and younger since their populations are increasingly being prime locations for the 25-35 age group- the age with the most innovation and new ideas.
In my opinion, the SE and parts of the midwest like TX are replacing what was once the situation in California. At one time not too long ago, California was the golden state- the state where a middle income citizen could live well within their means, get a world class education, and participate in a society that was in large more tolerant regardless of race. While tolerance is still above the norm here, all the rest is long gone. You WILL NOT prosper as a middle class citizen here, and this is why it is losing and will continue to lose it's future. Sorry I'm being negative, but I travel back and forth between the SE and CA and I see what it happening, and it's pretty much a 360 degree change of what I grew up with. Change is in the air.

California is not Ohio, for that I owe this state more than I can ever hope to repay.

Steak in Chicago: $25
Steak in San Jose: $45

Sorry,

not a proud Californian.

Label me bemused Northwest coaster...

Sushi in Marin: $80
Sushi in Chicago: $55
Sushi in Ohio: a stomach pumping

I have one thing to say about the South: Ghetto.

That is a good description of South Bay, near San Jose.

Sushi in Marin: $80
Sushi in Chicago: $55
Sushi in Ohio: a stomach pumping

Let's go to Kaygetsu sometime. With some luck $80 can buy some sushi. Just make sure you look around before you say something bad about Apple.

iTunes ITMS really pisses me off. Ok, got that off my chest. Let's do it.

I have one thing to say about the South: Ghetto. Strip malls, poor everywhere, horrendous schools, complete lack of tolerance, awful summers, and insane crime.

Huh??

So --"tolerance" aside-- you're saying California doesn't have ghettos, strip malls, tons of poor, horrendous schools or crime? Please. I'm not even so sure we're all that "tolerant" frankly. There's plenty of smug, arrogant lefty NIMBYism & PCness around here.

iTunes ITMS really pisses me off. Ok, got that off my chest. Let’s do it.

I have a samsung mp3 player, which is a storage class device. No need for software.

Either way, I’ll take a Nieman Ranch steak over a Chicago steak any day, even though that may be blasphemy.

Kobe. Kobe. Kobe.

"I somehow knew the Lakers would eventually get into this conversation."

Ooooooooo, soylent steak!

I somehow knew the Lakers would eventually get into this conversation.

Huh?

Either way, I’ll take a Nieman Ranch steak over a Chicago steak any day, even though that may be blasphemy.

Blasphemer!

I propose the price of steak is a micro economic thing. Chicago has so many great steak houses that they must compete, bringing the price down. In Northern Cali I have trouble finding a steak that's made of cow, let alone quality beef. So, in NorCal they can charge a ridiculous price, dress it up with sprouts, and call it "steak".

I find Kobe beef too fatty for my tastes.

It can be really fatty. Cook it medium-well or well-done for the flavor.

SFWoman Says:

"I was just bringing the kids to have them put money in their little passbook accounts."

Close the BofA passbook accounts (that pay almost nothing) and set the kids up with a BofA Checking accounts then open on line ING or Emigrant Direct accounts and show the kids how to transfer money they deposit in the bank to get higher interest (I got my first checking account when I was 8 years old)...

Immigrants are now starting to bypass traditional gateways and move inward.Nashville, Dallas, Ann Arbor, Raleigh, Montgomery, and a hundreds other micropolitan areas are becoming reknowned for their family friendly atmospheres and opportunities to immigrants that can rise above the poverty level much easier than in CA.

This is actually true. Way back in 1996, my first job out of law school was as a public interest immigration lawyer in NYC. Even back then, a lot of our clients were moving to places like Savannah, Georgia, and Kansas City, MO. It was really strange. People would step off the plane from Fuzhou province and make a beeline for...Savannah.

One of the clients who I still keep in touch with owns three restraurants now, in three different cities. He is sort of a trail blazer, he is the first person I met who did this. He started out in NYC, opened a restaurant there NYC and, once successful, asked a relative to run it. He then opened a bigger restaurant in Baltimore, MD. Now he's got one in Detroit that is HUGE. I mean, it's huge. It's one of those all-you-can-eat $5.95 buffet places, but the place seats like 500 people. And he fills every seat during the lunch hour! I don't know how he does it, the place is in the middle of a strip mall and there are dozens of other restraurants to choose from in the area, but he really knows the restaurant business and somehow manages to fill the place every day.

I actually represented a Mexican guy one time whose father was sponsoring him for a green card. The thing was, the kid was Mexican and the father was Chinese! I almost had a seizure when they both walked into the office, I was handling that case as a favor for someone else and had not met the clients until that day. Her daughter was sick, and she told me it was just a routine hearing; I trusted her so I agreed to cover it. Credibility is very important in the legal business and I knew that if I represented such obvious scammers my name would be mud down at the INS -- that is, after everyone stopped laughing. But the hearing was set for that day and I had no choice, so I went down there with them.

As we walked down to the Federal Plaza I overheared the clients talking in Spanish to one another, which was strange becuase I had never seen a Chinese person speak Spanish before. When we got there, the immigration officer acted just as I thought he would when faced with a Chinese "father" and a Mexican "son." He looked like he was about ready to deport us all, me included, then and there. "I don't see any family resemblance," he said. The nightmare was happening.

The son got his green card that day. It turned out that a few months before they'd had to do a DNA test, and they really were father and son! They looked nothing alike, one was stereotypically Mexican and the other was, you know, Chinese. But they really were related!

Anyway, the dad had first immigrated to Mexico City, and then to New York, and finally to Tennessee! He picked up both Spanish and English along the way, and married three different women. He showed me a picture of his daughter, and she was blond! I guess his genes were really recessive.

When the son came up from Mexico he went straight to Georgia, not CA. He worked in a Dunkin' Donuts there and owned his own home. This took place back in 1996 or 1997, I am sure it has become even more popular today.

Mr Vincent,

:oops: see: http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_smilies

Returning,

I think when you brought this up a week or so ago, someone mentioned that Virginia Beach is a special case. I have to agree. Most of the South have pluses and minuses, but cost of living is much lower and nice houses in good school districts can be had for $150K. Wages are quite low though.

@Returning to Bay Area,

Coastal Virginia is one of the most expensive areas of the South and is itself experiencing a housing bubble on a scale similar to CA's, so this is not the best representative for the entire region.