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All About Renting!


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2006 Apr 27, 3:53am   20,872 views  196 comments

by HARM   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Jealous bitter renters!

Folks, over the last few months we've had the "Jealous Bitter Renters" Thread (written from the P.O.V. of a rabid housing bull) and often had discussions about renting mostly in terms of how it relates to the RE market and bubble. We've had debates about renting as an alternative to buying at inflated prices, using it to as a metric to determine "fair market" housing value, Price:Rent ratios, why renters are so stupid, jealous and bitter compared to perma-bulls, etc., but so far --nothing about the finer points of the experience of renting itself.

So, this is your opportunity to share your renting insights and experiences with your fellow Patrick.net bloggers! About half of us here are homeowners, but you probably have rented at some point, and in any case should have an opinion. Tell us:

  • What qualities do YOU look for in a rental? Do you prefer high-rise apartment/condo living, townhomes, or detached SFRs? Urban/suburban/exurban/artist ghetto?
  • What things would you be willing to pay a premium for? Proximity to work/public transportation, being close to downtown, lots of open green space, square footage/storage/garage, modern amenities, Pergraniteel, pet friendliness, other?
  • HOW do you primarily shop around for rentals? Craigslist/internet listings, rental property management companies, newspapers/recycler, personal networking, other? Do you prefer renting from a private owner/landlord or from property management company? Why? Do you have any negotiating/bargaining tips to share with us?
  • Do you have any especially interesting, nice or ghastly stories to share from your renting past?
  • Discuss, enjoy...
    HARM

    #housing

    « First        Comments 65 - 104 of 196       Last »     Search these comments

    65   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 8:06am  

    One of the things about owning is that you think you've made your house perfect, then you sell the damn thing. Next thing you know, your ex-neighbors said the new owners gutted the house and put in granite counters...

    66   DinOR   2006 Apr 27, 8:09am  

    SQT,

    I don't believe I've ever seen that level of suck-ation before?

    Anyway, I mentioned a few posts ago that we have seen a number of "self inflicted" homeowner abortions. Yeah, carpet always sucks after just a few years. The last stuff wasn't even paid for yet homedebtor is out there shopping for new floor coverings! Just as an example we've seen where sellers laid down some really nice stuff and then put back the old molding/trim. Does that make sense? I mean you see it before you get your coat off.

    67   LILLL   2006 Apr 27, 8:10am  

    Zeke
    We had chickens in Studio City.Ethel and Lucy. The rabbit was in love with Ethel and kept trying to make Easter Eggs. The kids thought it was hilarious! Lucy was a Polish Crested and really played the part. I never kept my animals caged...didn't have the heart for it. No roosters though, the uppity neighbors would've made a stink.
    I made a recycling creek and put frogs in it...then brought in crickets for the frogs to eat....We had our own ecosystem!
    Oh, and the rabbit had 2 roomates in the compost heap, a desert tortise and an opossum!

    68   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 8:14am  

    SQT,

    If you do negotiate with your LL, remember to put in a schedule for depreciation of capital assets. That way, you're protected against your LL kicking you out after you paid for the flooring.

    69   surfer-x   2006 Apr 27, 8:16am  

    I lived here for a year, the slumlord was amazing, and we’ll get into that,

    tinyurl.com/hxxgh

    Needless to say, it was all about the view, house built in the 20's, was at various times a whorehouse, rum runner depot, and cat hovel. We moved in during the last phase. I rented the entire upstairs for 2100/month. Slumlord bought the place in the 60's with her ex and got it in the divorce. They ouzzzzzzed slime. Carpet was crap, which I used to negotiate cats, moved in without them cleaning anything or doing anything. Found out from the downstairs neighbor that the slumlord keeps deposits. As she got 4200 from me I wasn't going to let this happen. Stayed a year, moved to alameda. For those Ca renters out there your best friend is the California Renters Rights and Responsibilities handbook. Amazing. Seems that your slumlord has 21 calendar days to give your deposit back, after which point they have to give everything back, even if damaged. Furthermore, you have the right to a walk-thru and the right to fix any "damage". So I waited my 21 days, shit I gave them 30 days, then I called, "Oh hi Kathy, I'm calling about my deposit", "oh, there was damage". "oh really, here's how it is going to work, you have 24hrs to give me my money or go to small claims court", "fine". I sent demand letter (return receipt, signature required), then filed in San Mateo county small claims court. Did you know if you slumlord tries to maliciously keep your deposit you can get treble damages? I got all my money the day after service. Next place in Alameda was great, I concur about dealing directly with the owner. Great restored Victorian met the future Mrs. X at T/J's in Alameda and then moved across the street to the cousin of the prior owner’s rental. Dude was a freak; seem to resent that fact that there is Dr. in front of my name. Paid the deposit cash, which equally pissed him off. Always treated Holmes with respect. So the old guy that lives next door dies and they (owner is contractor) start remodeling the apt. Dudes brother comes at 5am, I am not shitting you, I ask Holmes if he can have his brother come a bit later, he looks at me with contempt and says "no, that's not going to happen". Ahhhh ok. So my cat Georgie (aka, GG, Miss G, Sir G's a lot) breaks the front window, actually one small pane of a 9 window mosaic. Long story. I fix the window. Holmes comes by and demands I come to the front. There are microscopic paint chips in the tan bark, "you need to clean this up". Dude is a 58 yo boomer, fat etc. I say "well you know what I enjoy about this _ _ _, is that I'll go ahead and do this, and whenever you ask me to do something I go right ahead and do it, I ask you one simple thing and you tell me to go fuck myself". He freaking loses it, walks me to side of the house and then assaults me. I don't fight back and start laughing. I then go inside and flip open the yellow pages and find the biggest shyster in SF that I can. I just got my settlement and am going to Japan on the money. Moved to Pismo, rented from an inexperienced owner, not bad though, really nice people but clueless as to what the market value of a rental is. And no it isn't what your mortgage payment is. I saw them sit on the other unit for 6 months rather than take what I initially offered them for it, which they finally took from someone else. WOW. Moved to Santa Barbara and lived in a haunted house for a month, moved to another one, standalone and very very Surfer-X. Found it on craigslist, under market and exactly what we want, owner is a surfer, santa barbara native, and bought the house in the 70's. Rented it to us because "I thought you would enjoy it". We love the place. Craigslist rocks. Remember cats aren't always a deal breaker, we are Amerikans and money makes everything alllllllright.

    70   edvard   2006 Apr 27, 8:19am  

    Ray,
    that's the bad thing about those Bimmers and mercedes- they handle really well, so they don't wreck as easily. I hate being on the freeway when some prick in a 70k bimmer convertible zips by doing 95.Always the same kind of 50-something executive looking guy too. As evil as it sounds, a little voice in my head says:"cmon, slip and wreck!" but... that's just heinous. Thnink happy thoughts! think happy thoughts!

    71   LILLL   2006 Apr 27, 8:21am  

    Newsfreak
    Don't worry...I don't want to sell you anything. :)

    72   HARM   2006 Apr 27, 8:21am  

    Harm, Randy,or SQT
    Will you please email newsfreaks email to me?
    Thanks in advance!

    Done.

    73   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 8:22am  

    "that’s the bad thing about those Bimmers and mercedes- they handle really well, so they don’t wreck as easily"

    Damn, gotta get them back into Camarros and ricers, that'll solve the problem.

    74   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 8:23am  

    It’s the classic renters dilemma. I wouldn’t mind better flooring, but I don’t want to put money into someone else’s property.

    You are "throwing money away" as a JBR anyway. Why not throw more away? :)

    75   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 8:24am  

    Using CL for rentals is kind of like buying homes fsbo. Sometimes you can go below market and get a good deal, but a lot of them have very exaggerated ideas about the kind of rent they can get.

    76   LILLL   2006 Apr 27, 8:27am  

    Excuuuuuuse me!

    Dr.-X for Prez!

    77   HARM   2006 Apr 27, 8:32am  

    Oh fine. Now I know you don’t read my posts.

    @SQT,

    I saw Linda's request, but hadn't yet refreshed to see your response. Job keeps me pretty busy sometimes.

    78   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 8:36am  

    newsfreak,

    I ran across this and I think you'd enjoy it.

    http://www.mooseyscountrygarden.com/

    79   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 8:53am  

    Peter P teaches about food and finances.

    Food and finances do not go well...

    80   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 8:59am  

    food and market psychology

    Not food-market psychology though... I am emotionally overwhelmed when I see lots of food on display in the market.

    81   Peter P   2006 Apr 27, 8:59am  

    I learned a lot from everybody. Thanks!

    82   surfer-x   2006 Apr 27, 9:04am  

    I like nice boomers. I do not like so much bad boomers. There are no boomers in the middle. Bad outnumbers good 6 to 1.*

    *not investment advice.

    83   HARM   2006 Apr 27, 9:05am  

    Being a life-long SoCal JBR surrounded by brilliant investors with their priorities straight has taught me what really matters in life: Things you can buy with fat stacks from your HELOC, cash-out refi or flipped condos. The one with the most toys in the end wins. Period. Get a methusulah loan, NAAVLP, whatever, but just "get in the game" or your life means nothing.

    Oh, and btw, I plan on taking it all with me.

    84   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 9:06am  

    I brood about my JBR status to the Loud Family.

    85   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 9:08am  

    It's probably just the temptation to find the next Zadie Smith.

    Though I don't really get the appeal of Zadie Smith...I guess that makes me narrow minded...

    86   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 9:10am  

    SQT,

    If you do become the next J K Rowling, can I read your books before they're officially out?

    87   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 9:13am  

    I totally missed out on young girls' lit too. I was reading Tom Clancy in high school, for some freakish reason.

    88   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 9:15am  

    SQT,

    It doesn't hurt to be optimistic, especially when I'm not the one who'll be suffering writer's blocks :P

    89   Randy H   2006 Apr 27, 9:23am  

    Surfer-X is spot on regarding tenants rights. The sad fact is that most renters don't know what their rights are so they never assert them. It is not the landlord's responsibility to inform you of your rights, so no one will help you but yourself.

    I (and later we) rented for many years before we became owners, and in three states. The only time we had problems that didn't resolve well was with a large, well organized "mega complex" in suburban Chicago. When these guys maliciously tried to keep our deposit, and I took the letters and small claims route, they pulled some intense legal thing-a-majigger to get the case moved to "big boys court", where it was going to take 4-5 years to get hearing and I'd need a real lawyer to do the filings. They got my $.

    In all other cases, certainly thereafter, we always rented from individual, smallish owners. And, never knowingly from a lawyer who actually practiced trial law. I want someone I can take to sc court. I find it's good to rent from folks like engineers, scientists, or pretty much any non-business/non-legal type. Engineers are especially good because they think they know what they're doing even if they don't.

    Like X, I had good and bad experiences. The difference is that I _always_ got my deposit back, plus interest in most cases, and usually 100%. We're actually pretty nice renters, fix a lot ourselves, and don't abuse the relationship. But, if the landlord makes the first move to be a jerk, then I quickly demonstrate just how demanding of a renter I can be. This is the case in the McMansion I'm renting now. Started off well, but went bad after the place started falling apart (literally, for a while an actual hole in the beautifully vaulted 30' ceiling clear through to the leaking shingles for a while this rainy season, and ruining a very nice rug we own), he turned into a legendary f#!kface.

    I guarantee that a) I'll get 100% of my deposit back out of this place, b) I most likely will get interest at the average prevailing CD-18mo rate for the period, c) there is a very high likelihood that he'll sell the house after our tenure, having learnt that being a casual, a$$hole landlord isn't worth the money (especially given how I negotiated the extension--funny what you can do to people who can't do TVM-math).

    91   Randy H   2006 Apr 27, 9:27am  

    The difference is that I I didn't mean that to sound like a direct comparison to X's experience. Sorry, it came out wrong.

    92   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 9:35am  

    Owneroccupier,

    Very nice! But Bernake never spent any time at Columbia! You'd have to pin the blame on those schools by the Charles River.

    93   Randy H   2006 Apr 27, 9:35am  

    Owneroccupier,

    Classic. Long live Hubbard. I'm one of those definitely watching Benny boy.

    94   Randy H   2006 Apr 27, 9:36am  

    astrid,

    Hubbard turned down early contention for the job. That's the connection.

    95   OO   2006 Apr 27, 9:37am  

    astrid,

    you mean Harvard, right? :-)

    96   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 9:38am  

    Owneroccupier,

    I'd never say anything bad about your alma mater directly :P

    97   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 9:42am  

    From

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Bernake

    "Born in Augusta, Georgia (to Philip, a pharmacist, and Edna, a schoolteacher), he graduated from a high school (with 1590 out of 1600 on his SAT) in Dillon, South Carolina in 1971?; from Harvard University (summa cum laude) in 1975; and earned his Ph.D at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1979. He taught at Stanford University from 1979 until 1985, was a visiting professor at New York University and has since then been a tenured professor in the Department of Economics at Princeton University. He chaired that department from 1996 until September 2002, when he went on public service leave. He resigned his position at Princeton July 1, 2005. He has given several important lectures at the London School of Economics on monetary theory and policy and written three textbooks on macroeconomics. In 1997, Bernanke earned his FAA private helicopter license, concluding over four years of weekend flight training."

    98   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 9:44am  

    Anyways, I must be ultra dense, I didn't realize the dancing guy was supposed to be Glenn Hubbard. Duh!

    99   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 9:50am  

    SFWoman,

    Let's just blame Princeton. Nobody here from Princeton, right?

    100   surfer-x   2006 Apr 27, 10:02am  

    When I see HeliBen I see arrogance.

    101   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 10:02am  

    I think I'd better just blame BushCo. They have a habit of ruining good economists...

    102   OO   2006 Apr 27, 10:10am  

    There is something about MIT that makes me hesitate about sending kids back there again, academically brilliant, but the institute is too intense, competitive at all cost, not a very friendly kind of place. Two took the plunge when I was there, there might be more suicide cases that I was not aware of, but anecdotewise, MIT has a higher suicidal rate than other schools of the same calibre. I am not sure if Randy will be happy there, because most people I know are not.

    My first choice was actually Caltech, but I was not accepted.

    103   astrid   2006 Apr 27, 10:13am  

    Owneroccupier,

    Really? I know some people who went to MIT and they're quite laid back and well adjusted. In fact, I'll go so far as to say they're some of the most well adjusted people I know. It's a bit intense, but pretty cool if you're smart and well grounded.

    104   OO   2006 Apr 27, 10:15am  

    The fact that Ben Bernanke actively campaigned for his job means:

    1) He is not very smart, at least from the big picture perspective. If I were offered such a position, meaning I am competent enough to fill a lot of other positions of similar power and significance, I would have turned it down over a heartbeat. The informal job description of Fed Chairman at this point should be: to assume full responsibility for Greenspan's blunder.

    2) He is very political, meaning he will cave in to political pressure during election years. So I do expect him to drop $$$$$$$ from the helicopter just based on his being political.

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