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Moraga/Orinda & Lafayette are very nice and also very expensive –to buy or rent. Better have a fat checkbook with you when you go looking.
Correct. Which is way I mentioned East WC. You have to go far past the tunnel to see savings in the several hundred K's, and by that time you might as well be in Tracy (if you work on the Peninsula that is)
Since we are discussing commutes, I will (again) put in a plug for ACE (Altamont Commuter Express) and Amtrak's Capitol Corridor. They both connect with Light Rail at Great America and the time spent getting to and from "cheap housing" can be used to do actual work (although the seduction of Amtrak's bar car after a rough day at the office may be too much for some). ACE also has dedicated shuttles that go around to most employment centers in Silicon Valley. Not that I would want to live in Stockton, but I do hear that home prices may be falling (like a rock!)
of course you can alway try Richmond or most of Oakland. Significant savings are possible and you're on the right side of the tunnel - only the bridge is between you and bliss. So go ahead....I dare you!
I see two possible "career" paths for a new arrival to the Bay Area:
(1) You move to the area and buy a house - probably out in Walnut Creek or someplace because of the kids, and the dog, and yadda yadda. So the house come with a 4+ hour a day commute. Your mortgage and taxes, etc to live in your wonderful house which you hardly see is about $5k a month. The kid(s) grow up for a few years not knowing you, which is OK because after those few years they get lots of quality time with you, you lost your job. This isn't so great, you were never able to save money, unemployment is WAY up, and RE's been decreasing in value at a steady 5% a year. Except out in Walnut Creek, where it's been decreasing in value at 7% a year. You collect unemployment, try to make it as "Mr Dad" while your wife gets a job at $8 an hour in a small book store, for 30 hours a week and hopes to land that lucrative gig on weekends at the laundromat, maybe. She's now the sole breadwinner. One car is repo'd and you turn the other one in, buying the neighbor's old van. You'll need it, since after squatting in your house for 3 months, the Sheriff shows up and that's the end of that. Luckily, your wif'e parents in Kalamazoo have a trailer in the back yard you can move into, and both Arby's and and screen-door plant are hiring, and not picky about credit histories, since yours and your wife's are trashed.
(2) You move to warm wonderful Silly-Con valley for that job with Initech. You rent a place in a decent neighborhood, which means you pay a premium, $2500 a month. At least the LL has to fix the roof or that leaky faucet! There's a yard for the kid(s) and dog, and decent schools. You and Wifey get together and decide to keep her Volvo XC70 while you sell your Ford Imperator-Maximus (and take a bit of a hit paying off the amount you're "underwater" on the loan) since Initech gives you a transit pass as part of the pay package and you take Caltrain + a brisk walk to work. A few other Initech'ers are on the train, and you hang out and shoot the bull every morning, in the car 2 up from the bike car. Wifey takes classes at the local college outreach, and the LL doesn't mind her turning the backyard into a vegetable garden, heck, it's rather nice actually! Three years pass by rather pleasantly and uneventfully. Wifey's on a Simple Living kick and has found the PBS film "Affluenza" on YouTube. You manage to save $2500 a month, since you'd figured maybe you'd buy a place at $5k a month, but had decided to hold back.... you'd had slight qualms..... Those slight qualms materialize too, but on the job front - Initech is downsizing and you're soon out of a job. Well, no worry, you've got savings in the bank, and if things still look bleak on the job front when the lease is up in 7 months you'll look for a cheaper rental, seems there are always a few with "shaggy" years to be had for under $2k a month. Wifey decides she'd like to go back to work part-time anyway, and you use your unemployment-vacation to do a bit of relaxing and look into job-retraining programs. A degree in bullshit is better than no degree at all, and you find there are a lot of "add ons" you can take in 6 months or so and with the gov't's blessings (they'll keep you on unemployment pay and even extend it while in a training program) which will make you very hire-able and at as least as good pay as Initech gave. Yes, you are a renter, and life is good!
Claire Says:
However, there is currently a $3-400,000 price difference for similar properties in Wanut Creek vs Mountain View
Keep in mind that you are comparing a bubble-inflated MV price (it has only slid a little yet) with the post-bubble WC price. This gap is likely to narrow as WC plateaus out and MV continues to slide.
Peter P Says:
Really? What time are they on the road?
Typically at work around 9.30 am, back around 6.30pm. Anytime they can, they delay their schedule just to catch a break...
SP - I sure hope the Mountain View prices do slide - I just wish it would happen quickly!
Typically at work around 9.30 am, back around 6.30pm. Anytime they can, they delay their schedule just to catch a break…
Perhaps they should shift their schedule at least 1 hour. That will save them some time.
Did anyone comment on the housing report yet?
Existing home sales got pwned, although the NAR Chief Monkeynomist is spinning this out as "declining inventories going into 2008". No mention of the fact that inventory was higher than last year-end, and also higher than their earlier estimate.
And oh, by the way, NAR also thinks you will be happy to know that 2007 was the "fifth highest sales" record. So I guess the "sixth highest" is in the bag for 2008...
Maybe I sound stupid, why not commute to Santa Cruz?
Isn't Santa Cruz at least along the coast and a resort town? Why does everybody want to go east?
Claire Says:
SP - I sure hope the Mountain View prices do slide - I just wish it would happen quickly!
It may sound a little glib, but seriously, stop looking at it and enjoy everything else. I don't think this will be quick, so it is best to do whatever it takes to get time on your side.
Ok, I know my town has a bad rep. and deservedly so, but there are some really great, safe areas here. Expensive too, unfortunately. If shooting down the east shore is at all a possibility, don't discount El Cerrito, Albany, Berkeley and even some parts of Richmond. Rule of thumb, altitude = safety.
altitude = safety
Let's go to Colorado Springs! It is higher than the mile-high city. Join the mile-high club!
Scrap that, how about Dillon at 9800 ft?
how about Dillon at 9800 ft?
if your work allows it and if you don't mind being 1000+ miles away from the ocean, Dillon is fabulous. Right smack in the middle of several of the country's best ski resorts & a small lake too!
At higher altitudes...............
The criminals around here are dumb enough at sea level. I can't imagine what a lack of O2 would do.
Fortunately the wind, and I mean wind, that comes in the Gate gives the East Bay, from Oakland to the north, really good AQI. Even better since Chevron keeps in line most of the time. There are a few bad days, but that's usually because of an off shore flow.
re: Santa Cruz, the commute over 17 can be a real drag day in and day out.
Boise is at about 2700 feet elevation and has dramatically lower crime than places like Oakland or Richmond. It probably has to do with the higher lead-to-oxygen ratio around here. :)
If your commute is on 17 over the hill then you should do your family a big favor and load up on life insurance. That commute is a suicide run. When I lived in Redwood City, I commuted the other direction for a couple months for a project. And that was 10 years ago, before everyone and their brother decided they were impervious to crashes in their leased 5-series.
Boise is at about 2700 feet elevation and has dramatically lower crime than places like Oakland or Richmond. It probably has to do with the higher lead-to-oxygen ratio around here.
See! :)
Flagstaff (7000 feet) has higher crime rate than Sedona (4400 feet) though.
That commute is a suicide run
I'll second that. I don't think I've ever driven a more dangerous stretch of road (at least at rush hour). At least not in the US. I'm sure there are other dangerous roads, but they generally don't see this much traffic.
That commute is a suicide run.
Driving is very dangerous.
How about this safe SUV? :)
yeah 880/17's a suicide run no matter what part of it you're on. I used to drive the 880-17 to go to a place near Ebay on Hamilton Avenue and that road's very high risk. Random, high-speed, fast, lane-changing, basically reckless swerving over 2 or 3 lanes with no warning is the order of the day there, everyone does it, and the interweaving patterns of cars and SUVs weaving in and out of each others' paths at 70+ can be entrancing.
Santa Cruz is a nice town but I'd go there to live and work there and only travel over the hill if absolutely necessary.
Does Zillow let people change the ACTUAL reported sales price? That aint right. If you remodel or add on it kinda makes sense to change your zestimate though.
OK let me try again.
How about going to Half Moon Bay? Shouldn't that be more desirable than, Tracy?
Also, if your center working area is around MV or PA, right around the border of Peninsula / South Bay, Morgan Hill seems a more reasonable commute than crossing over to Walnut Creek. I personally find Morgan Hill more desirable than Walnut Creek because it is closer to the beach.
Does Zillow let people change the ACTUAL reported sales price? That aint right.
Just 'cuz somethin ain't right, don't mean it's not so. ;-)
@Peter P,
Why settle for that armored toy? If you want true road 'safety' go for the real deal.
oo,
Not to be your personal stalking wet blanket, but the commute over 92 also sucks. Not a death-trap like 17, but the traffic is awful during rush hour. All that to get to a place of consta-fog. I like HMB a lot, but not as a place to live.
FWIW, do you remember that money.cnn article a few months ago about the whining millionares of the Bay Area who don't feel rich in the Bay Area? The lead whiner of the story lives there, as I recall.
FWIW, do you remember that money.cnn article a few months ago about the whining millionares of the Bay Area who don’t feel rich in the Bay Area? The lead whiner of the story lives there, as I recall.
"Rich millionaire" is an oxymoron.
Last year, the "poorest" person on Forbes 400 had $1.3B.
>> Boise is at about 2700 feet elevation and has dramatically lower crime than places like Oakland or Richmond.
Statistically it can be shown that places having higher number of churches has higher crime rate. This data does not mean church and crime is related. Please refer to Simpson Paradox:
http://www.macalester.edu/qm4pp/Math%20108/presentations/Spring%202005/FerdererCausation.pdf
Completely off-topic.
Does anyone here get calls for "Expiring Factory Warranty" ? I have been getting a lot lately (over 5 in last month). In the first I politely tried telling that I already have a warranty on my car and they just slammed the phone on me. Very suspicious.
OO Says:
> OK let me try again. How about going to Half
> Moon Bay? Shouldn’t that be more desirable
> than, Tracy?
HMB is better than Tracy only if you like fog and stoners (since HMB has lots of both). The Hwy. 92 commute sucks but it is not as scary as Hwy. 17 (it really sucks when Hwy. 1 at Devils Slide closes). If you live in HMB want scary commute you can always take Tunitas Creek up to Skyline and head down Kings Mtn. to get to 280…
I'm on the federal "do not call" list and I get those all the time. Mostly for my 2001 truck. What's with those morons?
Permarenter,
I was joking - maybe - but the amount of lead in the hands of law-abiding citizens probably does contribute to a causal relationship to lower crime here.
StuckInBA - No, they're completely OK, just give them whatever info they ask for.......
I like this one from Mish.
Throwing Away Money
Remember the catchphrase "throwing away money on rent"? The bottom will come when people start bragging about the day they stopped "throwing away money on an overpriced house".
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How about some legislation with the express intent to LOWER house prices, unlike the crap legislation we're getting from Pelosi and Barney Frank designed to make housing less affordable?
We should completely eliminate Fannie Mae, and after that, the mortgage interest income deduction.
Here are some more ideas from Steve, a patrick.net reader:
#housing