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Protecting Your Savings


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2008 Jan 27, 5:53am   46,825 views  390 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   💰tip   ignore  

safe

With the government now mounting a full-scale assault against savers by cutting interest rates, attempting to keep housing prices unreasonably high, and even handing out raw cash (do I hear helicopters?) what can responsible people do to protect what they've earned?

Some options and problems with those options:

  • CD's: fully taxable, low rates (under 4% now), some risk FDIC won't cover bank failures
  • Treasury Bills: no state tax, less risk, but even lower rates (2.5%)
  • Gold: pays no interest, price very hard to predict. Lost value for 20 years after last peak.
  • Stock: falling prices in falling economy as earnings decline
  • Housing: massively overvalued, likely to keep falling for years
  • Commercial property: also seems to be on downside of a bubble
  • Commodities: falling prices as economy slows

One bright point: if you're saving to buy a house, your cash gets more valuable as house prices fall. And you get interest on top of that.

Patrick

#housing

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283   PermaRenter   2008 Jan 30, 3:49am  

>> “Politics” at work is always everywhere.

I agree. Please refer to this Agile 2007 paper:

The Facts of Work: Living with Power and Politics
http://www.agile2007.org/agile2007/downloads/presentations/The_Facts_of_Work_Power_and_Politics_417.pdf

In Yahoo strong leadership is needed to effectively complete with Google. In my five months I observed no sign of competitiveness. For example they were showing Brobeck Mountain in Yahoo! cafe which was attended by a large number of employees. Yahoo! has failed to effectively execute on Overture (project Panama) acquisition.

284   SP   2008 Jan 30, 3:54am  

northernvirginiarenter Says:
Residential makes up about 80% of total tax commerical 20%. Property tax revenue represents about 90% of total revenues. So in real terms, a 30% decline in property values, given the political difficulties in raising tax rates, represents armegeddon for them.

Ouch - no wonder they don't want to consider anything worse that a 5% chance of a 30% drop!

californians answering calls in hindi

Yeah, I was thinking of Dilbert sitting here in Sunnyvale, trying his best to put on a thick Indian accent "Hello sir, I am Ramalamanindam" and interrupting someone's dinner in Mumbai to sell him a subscription to satellite TV... A few more rate cuts should get the dollar low enough to get us there.

OTOH, Church of DinOR sounds good too. He could smite people and cure them of their affliction to cheap Chinese bling.

285   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Jan 30, 3:55am  

The Fed is now completely irrelevant and impotent. They are saying now they "hope" they are done cutting. Well, maybe that's just a message to maintain a floor under the dollar, important politically and otherwise. Of course, they can't be done as the unwind continues. It's the only tool they really have, meaningless as it has become, to loosen up financial institutions that are in complete denial as to the losses they are about to face. Simply cutting the borrowing costs of financial institutions is in no way an offset to the scale of losses coming.

Apologies on being so obvious, I'm just losing hair over here.

286   Peter P   2008 Jan 30, 3:56am  

In Yahoo strong leadership is needed to effectively complete with Google.

It is not a leadership issue. It is a cultural issue.

Are you sure competition is the solution?

With technology, it is nearly impossible to effectively defend against every single emerging competitor, and yet changes and revolutions are the core of the tech industry. This is why I do not invest in technology.

I think the best course of actions for a technology company is to quickly introduce disruption, maximize initial profits, and execute an exit strategy early.

There is no use staying around.

287   Peter P   2008 Jan 30, 3:58am  

Gold went crazy again. Damn! I was trying to buy more!

288   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Jan 30, 4:08am  

@peter P

I think the best course of actions for a technology company is to quickly introduce disruption, maximize initial profits, and execute an exit strategy early.

There is no use staying around.

Completely agreed. All of yahoo's business are under full frontal attack and no new high margin product is coming out the door.

Relative to yahoo vs google: Microsoft search is in some ways ahead of google in analytics (closer to their customer, advertisers). They get their consumer front up to par (search return results) and I think they grab some serious marketshare from Google. Bill Gates is correct, people underestimate their ability to catch up to google in paid search. After all, nothing keeps folks "sticking" to google for search, it's easy to switch away. You give advertisers a better product, they will move over to the dark side, and they have cash to move the eyeballs over as well.

289   HelloKitty   2008 Jan 30, 4:11am  

CD rates are shitty low once again. 3.5% average per bankrate.

i was getting 5.5% just last summer.

my mom is pissed and so am i. (i have the same investment portfolio as her....all CD's...not very agressive i know, just wanna keep it safe)

ZIRP is killing me, bring back Volcker is he still alive?

So i suppose everyone who 'fled to safety' like me is suppose to dump all thier USD into stocks per the fed manipulation. I guess i should have locked in multi year CDs. To get back to 5.5% will take 5 years, we have to suffer more rate cuts, then the slow slow rate increases.....CD's are looking like a poor poor place now for a while...

290   Peter P   2008 Jan 30, 4:12am  

After all, nothing keeps folks “sticking” to google for search, it’s easy to switch away.

Exactly.

BTW, I do not consider Microsoft a technology company. It is more like an empire. I have great respect for Bill Gates.

In fact, I think he is the most respectable person in 20th century history. :)

291   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Jan 30, 4:13am  

@SP

lol confusious is wise, I talk out of my 'other end' more often than not. I think it comes from being completely surrounded by idiots most of the time(not here, of course). And this is said with due humility.

292   skibum   2008 Jan 30, 4:14am  

Speaking of the Fed rate cut, as expected, the Wall Street Junkies are already looking forward to the next fix:

(from the money.cnn.com piece on the Fed cut)

Wall Street is now betting on more rate cuts in the next few months. According to federal funds futures on the Chicago Board of Trade, investors are pricing in a 100 percent chance of at least another quarter point cut by the end of April and a 26 percent chance of a half-point of cuts. The Fed will meet in March and April.

293   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Jan 30, 4:30am  

Too funny relative to Chicago Board. So Fed says that's "hopefully" it, and the wisdom of the mob says "Yeah, good luck with that".

294   Richmond   2008 Jan 30, 4:33am  

Thinking about HelloKitty's comment,

Have you ever noticed that the media has never dared drift onto the topic of depositors that used interest earnings as a very important means of income. They are usually older, conservative and need the money. If you want to make this administration look like a bunch of heartless hoods, the news should interview some of those folks.

Speaking of Volcker, I had a passbook savings that was %11.75. You wanna' get votes, bring that back!!! Of course, the rest of the economy was in the dumper at the time. Ahhh well, I guess we can't have it all.

295   netdance   2008 Jan 30, 4:49am  

Hey, how about that inedible gold, eh? Too bad I can't drink it, either.

Of course, the shorts got slaughtered today. That's OK, I can hold for another few months, market's only going in one direction, inflation or no.

296   DinOR   2008 Jan 30, 4:50am  

@Richmond,

I live there my friend, I live there. While there are some decent ETF's out there that pay 8 3/4 and upwards of 9 1/2% you have immediate and serious obstacles.

1st. you're trying to explain (to elderly clients) how this *isn't a bond. Then you have the add'l hoop of explaining the concept of ETF's. (I realize everyone here is familiar and actually prefers them but it's a new wrinkle for older folks). Assuming you haven't completely lost them by now you still have to explain options.

297   Peter P   2008 Jan 30, 4:58am  

Of course, the shorts got slaughtered today.

Huh? Dow Jones is now down.

298   Peter P   2008 Jan 30, 4:58am  

Hey, how about that inedible gold, eh?

I have definitely eaten gold on top of sushi.

299   Richmond   2008 Jan 30, 5:01am  

Huh? Dow Jones is down---------

Golly, it's only been an hour and they want more. It must not have been a %100 pure rate cut.

300   StuckInBA   2008 Jan 30, 5:05am  

DinOR :
While there are some decent ETF’s out there that pay 8 3/4 and upwards of 9 1/2%

If you don't mind, can you share the names of the ETFs you like ? No investment advice of course :-), just pointers for more research. TIA.

301   StuckInBA   2008 Jan 30, 5:08am  

northernvirginiarenter :

Appreciate your zeal bro'. Thanks for the updates from the "other" parts of the country.

302   Peter P   2008 Jan 30, 5:08am  

I used to have SFF, which used to have 11% div at a time.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SFF&t=my

Somewhere before the peak, it seemed to me the valuation was way out of whack, so I got out.

Not investment advice.

303   Brent   2008 Jan 30, 5:18am  

It would appear we now have a clear metric as to the effectiveness of the FED. By integrating the area under the curve and multiplying by 6, we can quantify...

304   StuckInBA   2008 Jan 30, 5:22am  

I was always wondering when it would begin. Seems like a small cut, but definitely a big psychological shock.

http://tinyurl.com/26d38b

MUMBAI: Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), India’s largest software exporter, is effecting a small across-the-board cut in employee salaries based on the company’s performance in the third quarter, a move reflecting caution amid tough times for the outsourcing industry.

305   SP   2008 Jan 30, 5:23am  

DinOR Says:
there are some decent ETF’s out there that pay 8 3/4 and upwards of 9 1/2%

Names! Ve vant ze names!

306   SP   2008 Jan 30, 5:28am  

Peter P Says:
Dow Jones is now down.

Ha ha ha... Hey Bernanke, what you got there, boy? A rate cut? Gimme that. Here's what I think of your f*ckin' rate cut. Here, hold it for a sec while I piss on it. Now, go back home and ask your mom to bake another cut for me, and make it quick.

Word is that a bond-insurer is going down, so the street is sh*tting itself all over again.

307   Randy H   2008 Jan 30, 5:28am  

I'm a Californian because I chose to inmigrate here from the Midwest. My son is a Californian because he was born at Sequoia Hospital. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, to be honest. Of all the generalizations chucked around, this is one of the weakest. The US has always, since before the building of the great railroads, enjoyed a unique flexibility in it's population's willingness to "move around". It has made us strong, and allowed us to survive numerous massive economic shifts.

Contrast that to Europe, where even within one's own country people are hyper reluctant to move. Even for jobs. They'd rather stay home and force the government to pay them to sit around and bitch about how the government doesn't give them enough assistance.

308   Peter P   2008 Jan 30, 5:29am  

Names! Ve vant ze names!

http://screen.yahoo.com/stocks.html

You can search by yield. I don't think DinOR can give names. That would be investment recommendations, right?

309   Peter P   2008 Jan 30, 5:33am  

Contrast that to Europe, where even within one’s own country people are hyper reluctant to move. Even for jobs. They’d rather stay home and force the government to pay them to sit around and bitch about how the government doesn’t give them enough assistance.

Europe is toast!

310   SP   2008 Jan 30, 5:44am  

Peter P Says:
Europe is toast!

And we are... jelly?

311   Peter P   2008 Jan 30, 5:45am  

And we are… jelly?

More like peanut butter.

312   DinOR   2008 Jan 30, 5:50am  

No, in this case b/c it's not like "touting" an ind. stock some of the ones I use are...

ETY 11.06%
EXG 11.20%
QQQX 11.25%
AGC 11.91%

The discounts to NAV *aren't as steep as they were in NOV/DEC but I believe all are still somewhat discounted.

*NIA

313   DinOR   2008 Jan 30, 5:57am  

"Word is that a bond-insurer is going down"

I hate to be mean about this but... who cares!

Like a lot of us "here" (out west) we've owned a LOT of non-rated issues over the years. If the damn thing is a G.O bond why should we need the insurance anyway? Just b/c a bond is "non-rated" doesn't mean it's cr@p paper, it can often be the case that it was too small to afford the "skimming fee".

314   richcta   2008 Jan 30, 5:58am  

OT: I am heading to Iraq for a year of sun and fun. Currently I do my banking with Chase. Since I am going to be in the Middle East would anyone recomend changing banks? Barclay's? I was thinking along the lines of splitting the money stream 70%-30% of each check with the greater part going to a CD and the lesser for expenses. Opinions?

315   Richmond   2008 Jan 30, 6:11am  

@richcta,

Just eat up that year as quickly and as safely as you can and get home to your family, God's speed, Mr..

316   skibum   2008 Jan 30, 6:16am  

More bearish housing news in the local rag:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/30/BUF1UOAE9.DTL

"We're in a housing recession" (Bay Area...)

317   Peter P   2008 Jan 30, 6:16am  

richcta, come home safely! God bless!

Larger banks that are "too big to let fail" should be fine.

318   anonymous   2008 Jan 30, 6:17am  

richcta - You might want to look into what banks will have branches where you'll be based. Remember the US Empire is building several large bases there, including an Embassy larger than Monaco or something. So, just look into what banks will be there, I'd ask someone who's been over there and see. I'd guess Chase, BofA, maybe Wells and Wamu. But find out from someone's who's been. And be careful over there, last I've heard it's kinda dangerous, like Oakland.

319   skibum   2008 Jan 30, 6:17am  

And, as some of us predicted, VC funding may suffer as a result of the credit problems, impending recession:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/30/BUAUUOICM.DTL

"Venture capitalists losing confidence."

320   DinOR   2008 Jan 30, 6:31am  

"You could be a well-qualified buyer and not get your loan funded"

Sorry Mr. K. What CAR has deemed as "well-qualified" over the last 5+ years just isn't gonna' cut it any more. Think back, way back. Uh-huh, back to when well-qualified meant having a down payment.

I'm calling for a FICO Review! Let me get this straight? You have a 750+ but you can't come up w/ closing costs? Dude, you're a 650 (and I'm being generous!)

321   HelloKitty   2008 Jan 30, 7:11am  

I dont care where anyone is from either - just saying that it would sure be nice to own a ca$ino....apparently you need to have evolved from apes while in CA to do this.

The piece of dirt you land on after your mother craps you out doesnt say much about a person.

322   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Jan 30, 7:17am  

At this very moment, Cramer is spewing sewage about a bottom in the housing market. It's painful to watch. "I'm buying the homebuilders, I'm buying the banks" and "Guess what, I'm buying a house!".

Very Entertaining. Herding 'em into the slaughterhouse.

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