patrick.net

Randy and Dennis, that's hilarious.

Randy's poll would have to be on a descending scale, since hating boomers, starting fights on Patrick.net and liking dogs to me are positives.

Dennis, I admire anyone who takes a risk and hangs it out like you did. You strike me as being like Alex P Keaton's dad on Family Ties. Just a gentle easygoing guy. You've got a 'boomer pass' in my book and being here makes you a counterboomer which is just my term for an unboomer. Your love of cats, that's a different story.

Your love of cats, that’s a different story.

Are we going to start a dogs v. cats fight?

I find cats more libertarian.

No, I'd never do that. I'll just look the other way on that issue. Denial works for some things.

Stop tempting me.

Randy H says :

I am happy to see that the level of discourse seems to have returned to one of reasonable civility around here. All the klan this and aryan nation that was a bit too much to take.

Me 2. Last few discussions had some very interesting posts - to the level what Patrick.net generally means to me.

And BTW, I was dreaming about 25% minimum down payment. Every passing day gets me near that. Wells Fargo has officially taken the first step. It's just a matter of time before others follow the suit.

We will soon see how rich the BA is. Yeah, we will see how many buyers are sitting on the fence with 250K cash in their pocket willing to throw it at a fast depreciating asset.

FAB,
Check out this UCSC alumni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Davis_Hanson

StuckInBA,

Well I guess we shall see what we shall see... hmm?

Yeah when you talk to MB's they are so conditioned by their former (and broken) sales model they now refer only to the Loan-to-Value. "Yeah, I can do that all the way up to 95% LTV!"

(It sounds SO much better than, "You'll have to bring a down payment")

They just can't bring themselves to say, the other "D" word.

I was dreaming about 25% minimum down payment.

Hopefully with that, 20 year max mortages. Even better if the attitude toward a 30 year mortage changes to considering a 30 year note no different than a long term, triple net lease.

Oh man, this is what I have to face. Here we are talking about boomers and what comes in the mail? - the "Meals on Wheels" donation card. Try as I may, I just can't throw those things away. It kills me to write the check knowing that the old cunt that cussed me out in the bank line last week is probably on the meal list. Oh well, just be grateful for what you have and try to share, I tell myself.

The worst is when I have to hear them say how ungratefull, and how this and that "the young people" are.

ungrateful

Oh crap, take a look at the DOW.

Oh crap, take a look at the DOW.

Gold is up just slightly though.

I would perceive the DOW falling as deflationary but what do I know?

Why stop with housing, soon to be announced, the stock market bailout. Oh wait, the housing bailout is just a masked Wall Street bankers' bailout. Forget I said it.

I can accept bailing out bankers and bankers only.

Quick, run up your credit cards so you can benefit from the expanding bailout trend.

Oh crap, take a look at the DOW.

We have seen this before. Bad news came in from AIG and UBS so the market tanked. Within a day or two, good news will come in from another source and we'll see a rally.

It is rarely about the news. It is mostly about the perception of a news. It is all psychology and emotion.

Not of the Mad Max variety, but more like the 1950s-1960s lifestyles of one car per family, smaller houses, shared rides to work, home economics like meatloaf, etc.
Ha, ha, ha! Doh! Welcome to my world. At least the ground beef is grass fed. Only one person working in this family right now instead of three (spouse + home ATM).

On the protest front, my suggestion would be to go with something more provactive before kicking in with a full on anti-bailout rally. You could probably even get press coverage with something like an Affordable Housing Protest. Imagine the signs "Affordable Housing Now: Just Walk Away", "Jingle Mail = Freedom from Debt Bondage", " I used to have a mortgage, now I rent for half the cost". Call the group ACORN2 (hey, we're nuts, too).

I also tend to think CAR should be held culpable for their involvement in this mess. I noticed on their website they are still pimping ARMs (for First Time buyers, in fact); this is just egregious in my book. I am going to confront Used Home Salespersons with this from now on. I'm sure the conversation will go something like this:
Me: You are one of the parties responsible for the housing bubble by encouraging buyers to get in over their heads by using ARMs.
UHSP: No, I would never do that.
Me: Well your "professional" organization created a new Affordability Index once conventional metrics showed housing was out of reach of most citizens. The FTB-HAI tells new buyers to use an ARM to get into a home.
UHSP: Uhhhh... I didn't know that.
Me: Maybe it is time for you take charge of your "professional" organization before you lose all credibility in publics eye.

A bit late to respond, but HARM's question:

"How to stop corruption, moneyed interests and influence peddling’s power over government?"

Simple. Make sure the government doesn't have all that much power to begin with. Then there will be no incentive to corrupt or influence government.

Where's my nobel prize?

Al Gore took it.

HeadSet :

We have seen this before. Bad news came in from AIG and UBS so the market tanked. Within a day or two, good news will come in from another source and we’ll see a rally.

The rally always seemed to me lacking much conviction. It was happening in spite of announcements of bad economic indicators. Only on the hope of some sort of bailout for the monoliners. All the CPI, PPI etc news that mattered in the morning on those days was being ignored after some suspicious reversals. It was a good opportunity to accumulate short ETFs.

The market in my expectation is going to go a whole lot of nowhere in coming weeks and months. The only trades I will do would be in the short side.

But I couldn't accumulate more of GLD. I don't know if it's in the bubble territory or not. I don't want to sell what I have, but I also don't have the courage to buy any more.

NOT AN INVESTMENT ADVICE

Simple. Make sure the government doesn’t have all that much power to begin with. Then there will be no incentive to corrupt or influence government.

That would be ideal. However, it requires a slight tweak of humanity.

Where’s my nobel prize?

When you can find a way to tweak that aspect of humanity. ;)

"Quick, run up your credit cards"

The sheer amount of "debt reduction" and debt "counseling you see advertised is finally over shadowing all the mortgage lender commercials. We've reached a tipping point!

Al Gore took it.

If "global warming" can win the Nobel Prize, anything can. You need a fearsome story behind your theory though. (Oh no! Sea level is going to rise one foot and my toes will get wet!)

We’ve reached a tipping point!

Peak debt?

There is a lot of land that is unhabitable today because it is too high above sea level. Even if everything that "Messiah" Gore says about global warming is true (I have my doubts) all that land would become habitable and people would move.

BTW, people moving from one place has happened continuously throughout human history. It is not as big a tragedy as most people claim.

Maybe I will get a nobel prize for saving the world from manbearpig! I am not joking, I am totally cereal!

@DinOR
Also I'm seeing TONS of attorneys ads who will cram down your IRS debt for pennies on the dollar.

didnt used to see so much of that.

I'm so glad the dancing mortgage people ads are mostly gone...mostly...
When those peaked it was truly a sign of the end of the credit bubble.

This is why I think too many people are trying to micro-manage Nature.

A true naturist will allow Nature to react freely.

For example, I don't think we have responsibility to prevent the extinction of "endangered" species. Yet many a time the same people who want Darwinism to be taught as the only truth also think they should stop Darwinism in Nature. LOL.

Definition of Global Warming: Hot Air!

Hopefully public reaction can limit the coming bailout. If not arrested, the current trend looks like it will go from raised conforming limits and lower qualifications to GSE's becoming insolvent and the US gov ending up with lots of REO.

What will the gov do with the REO? Demolish whole neihborhoods to keep prices high? Reminds me of the perfectly good surplus jeeps that were demolshed and sold as scrap, since selling the vehicles whole would be "unfair competition."

Peter P, there is no such thing as Darwinism. Any more than Einsteinism or Newtonism.

The correct term you are looking for is "science".

I don't think we have a *collective* responsibility to save endangered species but there are plenty of people who are interested in that kind of thing and they can do that on their own.

And no, it doesn't violate any laws of evolution by doing that. Evolution has no purpose or direction. It just is.

Peter P, there is no such thing as Darwinism. Any more than Einsteinism or Newtonism.

Darwinism is same as anti-Einsteinism. Which in one sentence, "God play with a perfectly random dice".

Stockmarket behavior is so very creepy these past months, why haven't we had a single instance of old fashioned panic that sends er down to the trading halts. Its almost unnatural.

If the Govt gets stuck with a bunch of REOs then wouldn't it distribute to everyone ? Yippie, free houses for everyone !

Evolution's direction is to an ever increasing state of complexity.

"Demolish whole neighborhoods to keep prices high?"

Excellent point. If the public builders can't get their $10,000 tax CREDIT passed we'll be bulldozing block after block of never occupied homes for... "public safety reasons".

sriram,

I think each species has a purpose (it's own survival) and a direction (the next meal) but after that I agree.

Evolution’s direction is to an ever increasing state of complexity

Not always. The direction is more didctated by survivability. Think of the parasites that have evolved ino little more than an attachment device and sex organs, and dark dwelling fish that have lost eyes.