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Effective Protest Against Bailouts


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2008 Feb 28, 1:22am   24,174 views  286 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (58)   💰tip   ignore  

protest

The NY Times illustrated nicely that most people are against paying their neighbor's mortgage:

But readers aren’t biting. More than 400 vehement reader comments on the Times’ site ran 20-to-1 against any taxpayer rescue - with fairness and basic economics the main objections

But we are not unified or effective in our protests. Just disgruntled savers bleating in the wilderness while our savings are forcibly transferred to those who did not save, and representative democracy keeps electing representatives of the banks. What would really work?

One reader suggestion is an online petition that all the housing blogs could post. It also might be time to actually hit the streets with real signs and pithy slogans. I could do the SF financial district at lunch some day.

Then there are boycotts, but what are we going to boycott? We're already boycotting bad lending and high prices.

Could we create an effective and public way to track politician sell-outs to the REIC?

Is it time for direct democracy, the ability of the people themselves to make the laws?

#housing

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194   DennisN   2008 Feb 29, 5:16am  

Al Gore took it.

195   StuckInBA   2008 Feb 29, 5:16am  

HeadSet :

We have seen this before. Bad news came in from AIG and UBS so the market tanked. Within a day or two, good news will come in from another source and we’ll see a rally.

The rally always seemed to me lacking much conviction. It was happening in spite of announcements of bad economic indicators. Only on the hope of some sort of bailout for the monoliners. All the CPI, PPI etc news that mattered in the morning on those days was being ignored after some suspicious reversals. It was a good opportunity to accumulate short ETFs.

The market in my expectation is going to go a whole lot of nowhere in coming weeks and months. The only trades I will do would be in the short side.

But I couldn't accumulate more of GLD. I don't know if it's in the bubble territory or not. I don't want to sell what I have, but I also don't have the courage to buy any more.

NOT AN INVESTMENT ADVICE

196   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 5:17am  

Simple. Make sure the government doesn’t have all that much power to begin with. Then there will be no incentive to corrupt or influence government.

That would be ideal. However, it requires a slight tweak of humanity.

Where’s my nobel prize?

When you can find a way to tweak that aspect of humanity. ;)

197   DinOR   2008 Feb 29, 5:20am  

"Quick, run up your credit cards"

The sheer amount of "debt reduction" and debt "counseling you see advertised is finally over shadowing all the mortgage lender commercials. We've reached a tipping point!

198   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 5:20am  

Al Gore took it.

If "global warming" can win the Nobel Prize, anything can. You need a fearsome story behind your theory though. (Oh no! Sea level is going to rise one foot and my toes will get wet!)

199   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 5:21am  

We’ve reached a tipping point!

Peak debt?

200   GammaRaze   2008 Feb 29, 5:26am  

There is a lot of land that is unhabitable today because it is too high above sea level. Even if everything that "Messiah" Gore says about global warming is true (I have my doubts) all that land would become habitable and people would move.

BTW, people moving from one place has happened continuously throughout human history. It is not as big a tragedy as most people claim.

Maybe I will get a nobel prize for saving the world from manbearpig! I am not joking, I am totally cereal!

201   HelloKitty   2008 Feb 29, 5:27am  

@DinOR
Also I'm seeing TONS of attorneys ads who will cram down your IRS debt for pennies on the dollar.

didnt used to see so much of that.

I'm so glad the dancing mortgage people ads are mostly gone...mostly...
When those peaked it was truly a sign of the end of the credit bubble.

202   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 5:29am  

This is why I think too many people are trying to micro-manage Nature.

A true naturist will allow Nature to react freely.

For example, I don't think we have responsibility to prevent the extinction of "endangered" species. Yet many a time the same people who want Darwinism to be taught as the only truth also think they should stop Darwinism in Nature. LOL.

203   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 5:32am  

Definition of Global Warming: Hot Air!

204   HeadSet   2008 Feb 29, 5:43am  

Hopefully public reaction can limit the coming bailout. If not arrested, the current trend looks like it will go from raised conforming limits and lower qualifications to GSE's becoming insolvent and the US gov ending up with lots of REO.

What will the gov do with the REO? Demolish whole neihborhoods to keep prices high? Reminds me of the perfectly good surplus jeeps that were demolshed and sold as scrap, since selling the vehicles whole would be "unfair competition."

205   GammaRaze   2008 Feb 29, 5:44am  

Peter P, there is no such thing as Darwinism. Any more than Einsteinism or Newtonism.

The correct term you are looking for is "science".

I don't think we have a *collective* responsibility to save endangered species but there are plenty of people who are interested in that kind of thing and they can do that on their own.

And no, it doesn't violate any laws of evolution by doing that. Evolution has no purpose or direction. It just is.

206   StuckInBA   2008 Feb 29, 5:48am  

Peter P, there is no such thing as Darwinism. Any more than Einsteinism or Newtonism.

Darwinism is same as anti-Einsteinism. Which in one sentence, "God play with a perfectly random dice".

207   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Feb 29, 5:48am  

Stockmarket behavior is so very creepy these past months, why haven't we had a single instance of old fashioned panic that sends er down to the trading halts. Its almost unnatural.

208   StuckInBA   2008 Feb 29, 5:49am  

If the Govt gets stuck with a bunch of REOs then wouldn't it distribute to everyone ? Yippie, free houses for everyone !

209   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Feb 29, 5:52am  

Evolution's direction is to an ever increasing state of complexity.

210   DinOR   2008 Feb 29, 5:53am  

"Demolish whole neighborhoods to keep prices high?"

Excellent point. If the public builders can't get their $10,000 tax CREDIT passed we'll be bulldozing block after block of never occupied homes for... "public safety reasons".

211   DinOR   2008 Feb 29, 5:56am  

sriram,

I think each species has a purpose (it's own survival) and a direction (the next meal) but after that I agree.

212   HeadSet   2008 Feb 29, 5:57am  

Evolution’s direction is to an ever increasing state of complexity

Not always. The direction is more didctated by survivability. Think of the parasites that have evolved ino little more than an attachment device and sex organs, and dark dwelling fish that have lost eyes.

213   DinOR   2008 Feb 29, 6:00am  

Hello Kitty,

Here's the really laughable part. Most of those guys (in spite of what they advertise) get their fees Up Front! Maybe they can help you, but more likely they can't.

From what I understand OIC (offer in compromise) are getting to be near impossible to negotiate! If you have any income at all, they'll take the full amount owed thank you.

214   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 6:00am  

Darwinism is same as anti-Einsteinism. Which in one sentence, “God play with a perfectly random dice”.

There is no such thing as randomness. Everything that transpires has a purpose.

Evolution could have been the device of Creation.

215   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 6:02am  

I think each species has a purpose (it’s own survival) and a direction (the next meal) but after that I agree.

The purpose of many species is for the culinary enjoyment of humanity, the master species. :)

216   HeadSet   2008 Feb 29, 6:02am  

I think each species has a purpose (it’s own survival) and a direction (the next meal) but after that I agree.

DinOr, you left out nookie. Every organism has a breed instinct.

Are you sure you were in the Navy?

217   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 6:02am  

Evolution’s direction is to an ever increasing state of complexity

I don't think so. Nature is perfectly elegant.

218   HeadSet   2008 Feb 29, 6:05am  

The purpose of many species is for the culinary enjoyment of humanity.

In the Pleistocene era, many species engaged in the culniary enjoyment of humanity.

219   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 6:06am  

In the Pleistocene era, many species engaged in the culniary enjoyment of humanity.

Those species extincted because their culinary domain lacked spices and sauces.

220   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 6:11am  

BTW, I thought humanity is only 5000 years old.

221   DinOR   2008 Feb 29, 6:12am  

Nookie? Sriram didn't mention that! I thought that came under "survival of the species...?" I'm sure there are species other than humans that engage in "recreational sex" (we just ASSUME they're trying to make babies!)

I think Peter has a point. Keeping some dwindling, failing species around when he's due for extinction may be doing more harm than good?

222   GammaRaze   2008 Feb 29, 6:12am  

"Nature is perfectly elegant."

How so? I see plenty of imperfections in nature.

Maybe you are looking at things the way they are and since there are no alternatives to compare with, assuming that the existing state is perfect?

223   StuckInBA   2008 Feb 29, 6:13am  

Those species extincted because their culinary domain lacked spices and sauces.

Are you saying that the damn meteor when it struck the Yucatan peninsula forgot to sprinkle spice as it fell ?

224   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 6:14am  

"Nature is perfectly elegant" is not the same as "Nature is perfect."

225   Peter P   2008 Feb 29, 6:15am  

Are you saying that the damn meteor when it struck the Yucatan peninsula forgot to sprinkle spice as it fell ?

Yes. Cosmic spice. :)

226   HeadSet   2008 Feb 29, 6:45am  

Are you saying that the damn meteor when it struck the Yucatan peninsula forgot to sprinkle spice as it fell ?

I know you are joking, but isn't that meteor that hit Yucatan what killed the dinosaurs? The more recent Pleistocene human eaters (without spices) would be the smilodons, giant sloths, and other great carnivores we are thankful not to deal with today. Whatever evolved into Peter P might have ate them all.

227   StuckInBA   2008 Feb 29, 7:50am  

I know you are joking, but isn’t that meteor that hit Yucatan what killed the dinosaurs?

Yes, my joke was wildly inaccurate. BTW, this discussion reminds me of movie promos for 10,000BC. I suddenly feel the urge to see it now when it releases next week. Maybe I should eat some organic Vegan popcorns and drink caffeine free diet coke while watching it.

228   HelloKitty   2008 Feb 29, 8:42am  

that movie looks awsome 10k bc

imagine if you could go back in time to then and invent money, then fractional reserve banking - youd be king of tha world (or head of the federal reserve as its called now)

229   DennisN   2008 Feb 29, 9:44am  

10,000 BC? Are you talking about the film where R. Welch walks around in rags that amazingly enough barely cover her yet never fall off?

230   ozajh   2008 Feb 29, 9:57am  

In general, anyone who went back in time would have great difficulty surviving for more than a few hours.

And if you went back as an established downtime identity, statistically you would be almost certainly be an impoverished peasant burdened with enormous taxes.

Most people who imagine going back in time imagine going back to membership of a tiny, tiny elite.

That doesn't stop the idea being an SF staple, however.

One of the most interesting takes on the theme IMHO is the reader/contributor community that's grown up around the "1632" series (Eric Flint/David Drake), where the supposition is that a whole town somewhere in West Virginia gets transported back to the middle of the 30 Year's War.

The level of peer review means that the whole thing stays historically reasonable, but even with the resources of an entire (backwoods) town it's interesting to see what can and can't be done, and how SLOWLY things happen.

231   ozajh   2008 Feb 29, 10:04am  

While on the subject of bailouts, not to mention globalisation, it will be interesting to see what happens to the refuelling tanker deal now the USAF has had the temerity to pick a consortium with a non-US member.

You need to be aware that outside the US (and especially in SouthEast Asia) there is a lot of interest and not a little anger that the same financial gurus that were telling the likes of Thailand to suck it up 10 years ago are now screaming for bailouts when their OWN constituency gets it badly wrong.

232   SP   2008 Feb 29, 10:10am  

Peter P Says:
The purpose of many species is for the culinary enjoyment of humanity, the master species. :-)

Do you mean "To Serve Man", in other words...? :-)

233   HeadSet   2008 Feb 29, 10:13am  

In general, anyone who went back in time would have great difficulty surviving for more than a few hours.

And being burned as a witch when they discover your tooth fillings, casio watches, and oversize bodies. You would also look much younger for your age than the locals. Your strange insistence on sanitation, plus your innoculations will spare you from diseases locals around you get. The locals will wonder why so many of your women with children still have all their teeth.

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