patrick.net

Hyperinflation or deflation, Hitler will rise. Such a figure rises because people are concerned about the country as a going concern.

20% inflation is very bearable, especially for a country like the US with plenty of food supply. Nobody can force hyperinflation upon the US.

What china had before the communist take-over was hyperinflation. Hyperinflation in modern history only happened in two countries, Weimar Republic, and Republic of China 1948.

Lesson 1, don't name your country Republic of whatever, a bad sign.

Ironically this thread caught my attention because I've been telling myself that things will always work out in the end, but this time I see a slight but real chance that the wheels could come off. I don't think it would take very much for riots and some real upheaval. Other great societies have fallen in the past, and I'm sure that when they were falling they were in denial.

It was funny, a couple of days ago the market had lost whatever it had and the girl on the financial news was saying, "look this happened before and the market lost half its value, we're not even close to that" then over the last couple of days we've come pretty close, definitely we're on track to. LOL

Malcolm,

The mantra is "High prices are bad, unless it is houses or stocks. "

After all, anyone who is anyone already owns both, and you don't want thier net worth to fall, do you?

Cash Savers aren't anyone. They just privatize thier interest profits while socializing any losses through FDIC. Didn't pay no moneymen commissions, neither. It would be shame to see them buy a newly cheap house and not contribute half their earnings to debt service.

That sums it up. I'll use that because you're right and I can see how renters here feel bitter because the government does only seem to talk to the homeowners and the stockholders. They are a protected class, and I'm not saying that is always a bad thing, I think as people advance they should own their homes and invest in a long term sustainable way, but even I am disgusted at this reverse class warfare. I am completely disenfranchised.

Headset appears to have had a personal revelation that inflation favors debtors, meanwhile I said this at the beginning of this thread

That inflation favors debtors is hardly profound. That is a universal known and has been commented on for years by myself, Malcolm, RandyH, justme, DinOr, and many others.

I presume that next you will take credit (at the beginning of some thread, no doubt) for pointing out that solar cells usually don't work at night.

OO says : Hyperinflation or deflation, Hitler will rise. Such a figure rises because people are concerned about the country as a going concern.

I will choose to live in poverty than live under hitler.
The only problem is that most people won't think like me.
You statement could well be true.

Hey TOB : why are you so obsession with India ?

Hey TOB : why are you so obsessed with India ?

I will choose to live in poverty than live under hitler.

You can have both, you know.

There is no way our Gubberment will allow deflation.
They will try to pump as much money as they could possibly do.
The only problem is that , money pumping doesn't work when people stop believing in spending and start believing in savings.
Its like the last 10 minutes of matrix movie when neo stops believing in the B.S

The only comments are related to the illegals coming over here and being responsible for everything bad that happens.

snmr,

This sentence:
There is no way our Gubberment will allow deflation.

Is completely refuted by your next sentence:
They will try to pump as much money as they could possibly do.
The only problem is that , money pumping doesn’t work when people stop believing in spending and start believing in savings.

You sound a bit like MiSH:
Well the Fed can print, but the Fed cannot spend. In addition, the Fed cannot give money away, nor would the Fed even if it could. Finally, the Fed cannot force banks to lend or businesses or consumers to borrow.

No gov wants deflation. But doggone it, it happens anyway.

The real purpose of the Fed is to keep wages low.

I read that the savings rate was way up.

Not really going to get into that old debate, they can't be all good or all bad. I have a problem with someone breaking the law to show up but when businesses want to hire them and the quota is set to 0, I don't see how it can be a surprise that they show up. It is also a national security threat to have people just coming and going but we can extend that discussion since we are mentioning Nazis. No I'm not an advocate for illegal aliens but I'm not going to demonize someone who comes here out of desperation either. More of that reverse class warfare I was just talking about, I find it distasteful.

Let's suppose the gov cranks up the printing press and pays off the $2.7 trillion owed to foreign investors.

Did that $2.7 trillion in new money make up for the $trillions lost in the stock and housing meltdown?

Let's just have the gov print a few $trillion more. Who are they going to give it to? Give each household a $1 million stimulus payment?

I'd also remind you that not all illegals are Latins. I've made some Mexican friends in my years in California but in general I don't care much for them. They are dirty, don't think twice about littering, I hate their crap music, they don't take care of business, they won't maintain anything of theirs so they are always breaking down and causing traffic jams. Their life experiences make them somewhat 'stupid' like not knowing that you can't safely cross a busy freeway. They destroy neighborhoods they live in because they don't understand the same norms of decency, like having a green yard, not having 8 cars in front of the house. All those stereotypes I find are generally true, but I just live my life as quietly as I can and if people aren't bothering me I tend to let things slide.

The Original Bankster Says:
October 11th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
"Malcolm, judging by your link there I assume you are of the Bay Area Haight-Ashbury hippie pedigree. This herd has thinned out in the past 8 years for sure."

You'd be way off. I've visited SF three times, I am from the East Coast and have lived in San Diego for 18 years. I have become very interested in environmental sustainability, not for political reasons or because I have something against capitalism, just because I find it is the right way to live.

That link is now outdated as I am just a limited partner in that company. The page and the feel are not really reflections on my personality. The founder of the company is an old cowboy from S Dakota.

TOB wrote :

The stock market in india does not represent Indian economy because India is primarily private.Company financing by going IPO is still not that mature in india and only accounts for a small number.
India is still largely a savings based economy - Good for them.
Thats one reason India survived most global financial disruptions pretty well. A precipetous drop in stock market is like a storm in US but like a fart in India.The only guys who are worried, are the hedge fund managers in US and other international fund managers.Vast majority of people in india don't believe in investing in equities. They just don't trust the company management, thier reportings and management integrity.This is primarily due to lack of regulation and enforcements in finacial markets or for that matter in general in the country.
One more thing , Rupee value is falling like a rock because all the investors in US are pulling dollars like crazy to cover thier asses here.
This is not good for us as it would hasten outsourcing. On top of it, we have bad economy here, which would force companies to oursource more, just like it happened in 2001-2005.
Ofcourse, all this would happen only if we survive the collapse.

In any case, we should worry more about US and less about other countries, unless it affects us negatively.

I already voted, and yes I voted yes on 8. BTW, I don't have a problem with gay marriage, see this is how difficult I am. I voted yes because I was outraged that again the courts overturned the will of the voters and forced their hand. My ballot is already in my mailbox.

Bapp33,

You really think Obama will lose? If your prediction is right, you take the title of "Oracle" from Duke, who accurately predicted the 8500 Dow.

They just don’t trust the company management, thier reportings and management integrity

I wonder if this attitude is affecting the current US stock market.

BAP, BTW you're right on about the housing thing. In my area there is a huge price premium if you want to have white neighbors. I have the blue collar kind, but even I couldn't afford to have engineers as neighbors, that was way out of reach. Ironically people with far less than I have tried to make it happen, now I'm watching many friends going through hard times because they couldn't really afford that premium.

At least I live close to a pier where I can fish if times get really bad. Oceanside if quite close, and I also can rent sailboats very cheaply. I also have my British citizenship, nice to be able to fall back on.

I'll be quite poor if I convert dollars to pounds though :(

I'm regretting bringing it up, I'm not hateful, but you guys are correct. It is a real problem, that is one group who thinks everyone should cater to them. I resent it, I don't want you guys to get me wrong.

Again though, I resent the government for its inaction more than I blame the 'invaders.' In fact who could blame them? What would you do?

I though we had stopped attacking minorities on this blog and blaming them for all the problems we face.
Common guys, there is a storm brewing and you guys are talking about lawn maintenance and traffic jams.
I would give these latin people a pass. Every immigrant generation takes a while before they have to reset to the new norms , expectations and decency levels. Its called change of point of reference. Thier reference is still thier host country. Don't tell me , these things didn't happen for the earlier generations of european/chinese immigrants.Things smooth out after a while. We just have to make immigration rules are more perfect, rather than bitch about people who use that failed system to sneak in.
We have to take responsibility and stop this blame game.
How many of you called thier reps to complain about immigration rules.
I know, I did.
everybody started jumping up and down as soon as the 700B bail out was proposed.
In any case, I am strongly against targeting ANY minorities on this BLOG.
No special treatment for Jews.OK.

TOB : What keeps total costs low for outsourcing agencies?

snmr Says:
October 11th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
"I though we had stopped attacking minorities on this blog and blaming them for all the problems we face.
Common guys, there is a storm brewing and you guys are talking about lawn maintenance and traffic jams."

I might remind you that the modern hatred for America by Muslims stems from a cleric coming over here and being offended at the amount of effort people here spent caring for their lawns. Sorry if it is offensive, I see no reason to not bring it up as white people have just as much right to live the way they choose and BAP brought up a clear point on how it directly contributed to the housing bubble. I saw it firsthand.

TOB : What keeps total costs low for outsourcing agencies?

The sheer size of the population.Its more than a billion.

You cannot expect to connect the water tank on your home to a lake and expect the water in the lake to rise. Size does matter.

Again, I think we have to be very careful with the usage of the verbage hyperinflation. I think the US is extremely unlikely to head into that.

I heard from grandparents' generation about their lives in 1948. You got your salary as a professor at an esteemed university at the end of the week (they switched to weekly salary), the first thing you'd do is to rush to a rice wholesaler to exchange ALL that into rice, because you could always exchange into other things from rice. So on the payday, you got home with your servants with 100s bags of rice.

Anything other than grocery with a little more lasting value was quoted in gold and silver, and yet nobody wanted to let go of their gold, because a few months later, all the one-way train tickets and ferries leaving China for the free world were only quoted in the unit of gold bars. Got gold, you could escape, no gold, you'd be stuck in commie China.

We will most probably never get there. So having a double-digit inflation every year is an entirely different matter from hyperinflation. People tend to use the word hyperinflation too liberally.

TOB, you never cease to surprise me.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9323776/#storyContinued

This was mine. I'm reading yours now, I think it is the same story. I remembered seeing it on a documentary some time back. Pretty funny how something as innocent as a green lawn caused 9/11.

TOB : how exactly does that keep the costs down?

The costs are down WRT the dollar. Thier is huge difference.
The costs are not down in general in india.If that were the case, India wouldn't be still a poor country.

To bridge that gap, its would be a while due to the size of population.
Use my previous analogy.

This chick doesn't really know what she's talking about but she's hot and it's related to bailouts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgxxxCfJpxY

I didn't expect you knew that much about Sayyid Qutb. I was really expecting people to tell me I was out in left field, not for you to provide multiple links.

Deflation is never a choice. It happens despite all governments efforts to prevent it.

In the end, all fiat currencies fail. Unfortunately for Baby Boomers, this may happen in their lifetimes.

A big far afield, but since Malcolm is around and this is a survivalist thread... What do you think of a "peak shaver" DC solar system. The idea being you have a DC bus powered by solar panels that runs a baseload, therefore "shaving" the most costly marginal kWhrs. I'm thinking a refrigerator would be an ideal load. The negatives: batteries, DC refrig/freezers tend to be more expensive. Positives: no inverter cost, backup power system for when the Big One hits. Was recently reinspired by this article.

Electrocution is always a concern with electricity. I don't like DC from the stand point that once it bites, it never lets you go. With AC you at least have a chance to get off before you die.

Read the history of electricity in America. There are so many reasons AC won over DC. Edison tried and failed.

If you really want a backup source of power, pay the cost for the inverter and batteries. I am not a fan of solar, but I do like small wind turbines. The only way to get DC out of a turbine is the use of an inverter or putting a commutator on the generator part. The addition of a commutator to any Synchronous Field motor-generator for electrical generation just adds too much complexity to the machine. It will never be reliable.