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SF Bay Area Conforming Limit Not Actually Raised


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2008 Dec 10, 2:22am   23,362 views  179 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (60)   💰tip   ignore  

limit

A friend of mine who just refinanced in SF Bay Area tells me that the single-family conforming limit (the maximum size mortgage that can be sold to Fannie or Freddie) was not actually raised to $800,000 or whatever they were threatening to do. The conforming loan limit for the SF Bay Area is still $417,000.

What's going on? I'm grateful that there is a limit to the insanity, but I somehow I missed hearing about this in the news.

I thought we were all even more screwed by Congress' agreeing to put taxpayers on the hook for really huge mortgages. Why didn't they do it? It's so unlike them!

Patrick

#housing

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77   kewp   2008 Dec 14, 6:38am  

I was just tallying up the annual performance of Peter Schiff’s recommended investment products over at Euro Pacific Capital:

Why anyone still listens to this clown is beyond me.

I still like the guy.

If anything, he proves my rule that when two people are arguing, its most likely that they both are wrong.

78   PermaRenter   2008 Dec 14, 8:32am  

>> That story is pretty funny Permarenter.

Yeah ... shows that Crapertino is a Chindian mecca ...

79   thenuttyneutron   2008 Dec 14, 9:07am  

I just watched 60 minutes and saw an interesting story about the asset bubble that is now correcting itself. One of the guests on the show is saying that we are only about 1/3 through the correction. We still have CC, commercial RE, Alt-A, Auto, and Option ARMS to get through.

80   slumlord   2008 Dec 14, 9:11am  

Zephyr,
Yeah, I have heard the $6 a barrel number before. I doubt it would ever go that low. I have a family member in oil and he says some people say $8 a barrel others say around $30. So it really depends on who and where you are talking about. We can take somewhere in between to be a absolute low where it no longer would be profitable.

81   Zephyr   2008 Dec 14, 10:17am  

Oil prices bottomed at about $10 about 10 years ago. On an inflation-adjusted basis that would be about $15 today. I could see that happening again if the world economy weakens enough.

At $15 most wells would keep pumping. They would still be able to cover their current marginal costs and have good positive cash flow.

Of course, the total cost of finding and lifting the oil is much higher. Onshore costs have recently been in the $20 to $30 per barrel range, and offshore costs are multiples of that. So in the long run, I think pricing below $30 is not sustainable, and prices above $60 are unavoidable.

If I were to pick a number for reversion to the mean it would be $60 per barrel. However, since we are correcting from an oil price bubble with a slowing global economy, I would expect a substantial overshoot to the downside in the next few years.

82   frank649   2008 Dec 14, 10:23am  

Also, to see $10 that means a continued bull run for the USD and I can’t buy into that.

OPEC said to be planning more production cuts and Saudis stated target of $75.

Seems there continues to be worry by those at the spigot that oil can keep dropping.

83   justme   2008 Dec 14, 11:41am  

Neutron,

Ha ha, you guys in the Eastern time zone often get a jump on the TV news. I'm watching 60 Minutes right now and was about to say what you wrote 2.5 hours ago.

The significance of the TV program: The words Alt-A and option-ARM will now be household words.

There was also a great interview with Barney Frank, where he punched back at those trying to blame him.

84   justme   2008 Dec 14, 11:45am  

Duke,

Towards the end of the article, Michael Moore was not pulling any punches, I'll concede that, but why should he?

As far as the content goes, don't you think he was spot on in his analysis of the facts, and of the Republican attitude towards an automaker bailout?

85   Zephyr   2008 Dec 14, 12:21pm  

Demand for oil is fading, and the economies of the world are slowing further. Demand will fall more.

New wells are scheduled to come into production next year. Supply is growing.

There is a glut of undelivered oil waiting for buyers. It is sitting in full tank farms and in tankers on route to nowhere. It costs money to hold/store oil.

OPEC will most likely agree to production cuts at their next meeting. But will they actually implement these cuts? History suggests that oil prices will continue to fall long after the cartel actually implements their production cuts.

Where is the bottom? I don’t know. But it is not close yet.

With enough inflation the nominal price decline may appear less severe.

86   Zephyr   2008 Dec 14, 12:42pm  

Barney Frank and the rest of the buffoons in Washington screwed up badly. But the crisis is not their fault.

We are suffering the consequences of a Federal Reserve fueled bubble that has burst.

Alan Greenspan is the villain in this debacle. Everyone else was a bit player in what has already transpired. His easy money policies were like gasoline on a fire, causing the excessive real estate bubble and its mortgage crisis. He then compounded the gravity of the situation by rapidly raising rates as the bubble reached epic proportions, thus guaranteeing an epic bust. The rest came inevitably from the disastrous policy.

Of course, the current bailout insanity is entirely the doing of our DC buffoons. They are a bunch of morons and isodopes busily creating critical morass.

87   justme   2008 Dec 14, 1:05pm  

isodopes == persons exhibiting exactly the same lack of intellect ??

:-)

88   Zephyr   2008 Dec 14, 1:11pm  

A major research institution recently announced the discovery of the heaviest element yet known to science. The new element has been named "Governmentium."

Governmentium (Gv) has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons, and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together by forces called 'morons' which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called 'peons.'

Since Gv has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected, ecause it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A minute amount of Gv causes one reaction to take over four days to complete, when it would normally take less than a second!

Gv has a normal half-life of 4 years; it does not decay; but instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places. In fact, Governmentium's mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganization will cause
more morons to become neutrons, forming 'isodopes.' This characteristic of moron promotion leads most scientists to believe that Gv is formed whenever morons reach a certain quantity in concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as 'Critical Morass.'

When catalyzed with money, Gv becomes "Administratium' (Am) - an element which radiates just as much energy as Gv, since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons.

89   justme   2008 Dec 14, 1:22pm  

I would have called it Republic(r)anium, but that is Just Me.

90   Zephyr   2008 Dec 14, 1:26pm  

Neither party has any sustainable advantage in the buffoonery competition. Whichever one is in power is the one that "shines"...

91   Zephyr   2008 Dec 14, 1:29pm  

We get tired of the incompetence, and vote the bastards out (once we have forgotten how bad the other bastards were).

92   Zephyr   2008 Dec 14, 1:41pm  

Regardless of who is in power Governmentium thrives.

The longer one party is in power the more morons and isodopes it attracts.

93   justme   2008 Dec 14, 1:43pm  

What about Corporatium, then?

94   Zephyr   2008 Dec 14, 2:17pm  

A samilar disease afflicting larger business organizations.

It seems that any large entity becomes bogged down by its own bureaucracy and internal politics. I am somtimes amazed that government entities and large businesses do not blunder more than they do. Of course, some do blunder spectacularly.

95   EBGuy   2008 Dec 15, 3:55am  

The significance of the TV program: The words Alt-A and option-ARM will now be household words.
I still carry an Ivy Zelman reset chart in my wallet... Does this mean I will get a spark of recognition when I bring it out and start talking about ARMaggedon?
Condo towers in SF are about to go critical. Looks like prices are sliding and hitting "developer pricing" of a couple of years ago. Not good for the specUvestors.

96   Duke   2008 Dec 15, 5:07am  

I think if Moore were to be correct on economics - it is either
a) accidenal - like a broken clock that is right twice a day
b) someone else's thought - as in someone told him, "say this"

I was suprised to see Yahoo people let go before the Holidays and before they chose a new CEO. The best I can tell, this signals an impending acquisition by Microsoft. It just does not make sense otherwise. . .

97   kewp   2008 Dec 15, 5:26am  

I am somtimes amazed that government entities and large businesses do not blunder more than they do. Of course, some do blunder spectacularly.

In my experience working in the public & private sector I've encountered three fundamental type of employees.

A. The Rock Star.

Worth their weight in gold. Innovates and motivates. Is genetically wired for quality. Workaholic. Makes everyone else look bad.

B. The Dead Wood.

Doesn't provide much value, yet is unobtrusive enough to not impede progress. Will do a few hours of good work a week if sufficiently motivated/prodded.

C. The Douche Bag.

Totally incompetent. A broken clock is right more often. Suffers from delusions of grandeur. Destroys all they come in contact with. Insecure at heart, so they will actively try and rid their organization of Rock Stars in order to replace them with fellow Douche Bags or Dead Wood. The Dunning-Krueger effect made flesh.

What I've found is that all organizations are basically a battleground between the 'A' and 'C' employee types. And ultimately their success/failure is predicated on which group is dominant.

Something I've always admired about Google is that they have filters in place to actually prevent hiring Douche Bags (they call them 'bozos') while also actively expunging ones that slip through the process. I attribute their success almost entirely to this practice. Preventing bad employees from sabotaging your core business is just as important as hiring great ones to build it.

98   OO   2008 Dec 15, 5:36am  

Kewp,

lol, agree on your observation.

99   OO   2008 Dec 15, 5:39am  

Yahoo is a place full of douche bags, that I know pretty well. I have had quite a few dead wood acquaintances who churned through the revolving door, claiming that even the rock star wannabe cannot stand it.

It is such a shame because I think Yahoo still offers some of the best products in the market, Yahoo finance rocks, Yahoo IM rocks, just that the whole Yahoo sucks.

100   Peter P   2008 Dec 15, 5:55am  

It only takes time for Douche Bags to emerge in any organization. Complacency breeds incompetency.

101   thenuttyneutron   2008 Dec 15, 7:41am  

Kewp,

Where in this spectrum does President Bush rank?

102   justme   2008 Dec 15, 8:07am  

TOB,

I would call that a Douche Star. In other words, a Douche Bag that tries to masquerade as a Rock Star, mostly by stealing the product of the real Rock Stars.

Those are also quite common. In fact, most outwardly successful Douche Bags are really Douche Stars.

Neutron,

Bush doesn't even fit in this Trichotomy. The classifications only work well in organizations in which the outward goals are generally agreed upon, I think.

But if I was going to give it a try, I would say Cheney is the Rock Douche. and Bush is the Deadwood Douche.

Note to self: One of these days I'll have to find out why douche bag is such a big put down in American culture.

103   justme   2008 Dec 15, 8:09am  

TOB,

Cr*p, I did not see that before I posted, and I 'm not just saying that, or being a Douche Bag :-). Anyway, some minds do think alike.

104   justme   2008 Dec 15, 8:20am  

Re: Google

Someone would have to tell me, but at a distance, especially Sergey seems like a rather big douche to me, but of course I could be wrong.

There is no way that company the size of Google does not have a large collection of douche bags, and I am not just talking about the shower rack at the Marissa Mayer penthouse here.

105   thenuttyneutron   2008 Dec 15, 8:43am  

A bit off topic, but I could not resist. I wonder how many Latinos are going to choking their purple headed Bishops when they see this.

106   EBGuy   2008 Dec 15, 9:04am  

From the Pluck It Like a Money Chicken files comes 2608 McGee Avenue, Berkeley, CA.
Sold in 1988 for $50,000.
Refinanced in 2003 for $320,000.
Refinanced in 2006 for $630,000 ($560k first, $70k second, both variable interest).
Taken back by the bank for $395,250. Currently for sale at $389,900.

107   justme   2008 Dec 15, 9:32am  

TOB,

I wish that would always work. What if there were no women in the first place?

108   Paul189   2008 Dec 15, 10:22am  

What's now happening in the best neighborhoods of the city-

http://tinyurl.com/58tno6

109   kewp   2008 Dec 15, 11:13am  

TOB,

As has been mentioned in further comments; the hallmark of a douchebag is indeed that they they *think* they are a rockstar! This is the essence of the douche. It has even been studied, as I've alluded previously:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

In fact, if you want to determine who's who in an org, just show them my list and ask where they fit in.

If they immediately self-identify as a rock star; consider that the flag o'bag. They get a bonus point for negatively labeling their peers without being asked.

If they schedule a meeting to discuss it further or ask you to put the list in a spreadsheet, print it and fax it to their secretary; dead wood.

If they are either two busy to talk to you; or dismiss the list as a crass oversimplification and then sketch out an optimized version in UML on their whiteboard with personality traits weighted by the relevant DSM-IV... well there is your star.

I'll add that many highly successful people are an amalgam of douchebag/rockstar. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, the list goes on.

Frank,

I would say Dubya is a pretty good mix of Dead Wood/Douche Bag and a Rock Star at dodging flying shoes. Seriously, the boy is pretty 'effin quick and I would definitely pick him over Cheney in a good ole' fashion shoe fight.

110   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Dec 15, 11:18am  

*Delurking*

Hey all, glad to see everyone still kicking and in overall decent spirits.

Justme,

RE Microsoft acquisition of yahoo search.

On the whole, a very valuable asset. On the business side, what they are after is search market share. They are getting that through yahoo's "installed" base of users, all the eyeballs that they drive through their various online properties. This market share is probably what is really coveted, as significant barriers exist to grabbing share through alternative channels in current environment. Indeed, most of their expensive efforts have fallen flat in this regard.

Greater market share means possible critical mass and greater pricing power and market control. Their sales team will also have an easier time pulling greater share of major agency ad monies.

My guess other assets are likely secondary, including intellectual property associated with search algorithms and back end processes.

On technology side, I suspect they will forklift out yahoo's analytics and back end eventually, replacing with their superior solution in that area. Migration to occur at all deliberate speed but possibly taking significant time. Probably much of their iron will be redundant and handled as such.

I cannot imagine that they would actually just redirect that traffic to their own search infrastructure. Many risks associated with user change. But doing so would be relatively trivial.

Many scenarios are possible on how to handle the overall migration, much analysis will take place. All problems that are solvable technically, what microsoft is really buying is the market share and real estate.

111   justme   2008 Dec 15, 11:56am  

NVR,

I think you're right that it does not make sense to redirect from the yahoo home page, at least not at first. Users are fickle and would quickly switch to google or elsewhere if the yahoo home page stops being an integrated one-stop-shopping site.

But I would bet that MSFT would try, eventually and gradually, to lure people across to their own site. They would have to be VERY careful not to drop eyeballs in the process.

Personally I dislike MSN because it is much too gaudy + transient, and the content too bubble-gum fluffy for my taste. I would not be surprised that is the main reasons people prefer Google and Yahoo overall.

112   PermaRenter   2008 Dec 15, 12:34pm  

>> Yahoo is a place full of douche bags, that I know pretty well. I have had quite a few dead wood acquaintances who churned through the revolving door, claiming that even the rock star wannabe cannot stand it.

I agree. I joined Yahoo Platform Engineering on first working day of 2006. I left after five months -- can not imagine working there again.

113   Paul189   2008 Dec 15, 9:41pm  

"Privately-owned housing starts in November were at a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 625,000."

WOW. Talk about falling off the cliff.

http://www.census.gov/const/newresconst.pdf

114   Duke   2008 Dec 16, 3:42am  

Who else is suprised at how well prices are holding up in core BA areas? Outlying areas have had massive capitulation - as low as $150/sq ft on new construction in Gilroy. But prices in and around the Penninsula are still 7 figures at > $600 sq/ft. The delfation CPI and job reports is just not creating any sense of urgency for sales. Only thing that makes sense to me is the homes listed are of the retiring work force who need/demand the old prices to fund their sun birding?

115   northernvirginiarenter   2008 Dec 16, 3:47am  

Justme,

By redirect I meant whose back end actually service and serve search results back to originating page. So you enter a search term in a box, well whose engine, whose algorithms, whose indexes, whose crawlers, ect would actually be servicing the search.

I don't suspect Microsoft will ever actually execute a full page high jacking, little to gain and much to lose there.

Excellent point relative to simplicity and user experience. I suspect that is one of my emotional buying triggers in using Google. Of course, I would like to think it is expediency and relevancy of returned results, but I do like goggles’ logo and simplicity as well.

116   EBGuy   2008 Dec 16, 4:06am  

Who else is surprised at how well prices are holding up in core BA areas?
I hear ya Duke. These folks are not going to be leaving quietly as there is real cash invested (in many cases). A combination of marginal players (sincere folks who stretched so as not to be "priced out forever") and high-end "homesitter/speculators" (think $250k tax free) are eventually going to be driven from their abodes by the recasts. Over 70% of Bay Area homebuyers in 2005 used option or IO ARMs. Throw some job losses into the mix and eventually even the retirees will capitulate when it is clear the direction the market is taking...

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