0
0

Money Is Labor


 invite response                
2009 Jan 29, 1:18am   13,386 views  139 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   💰tip   ignore  

labor

On Jan 29, 2009, at 7:24 AM, Rolfe W. wrote:

But consider the math. If you have $100,000 of deposits at a bank. Do you also have the capacity to pay yourself back $100,000 if that money is lost?
If taxpayers lose all their money in widespread bank failures, they'd have no cash left to bail themselves out.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Patrick Killelea wrote:

It gets confusing because I'm not sure what cash really is. If taxpayers lose all their money, they could print more and pay themselves back. Would that be inflationary? Maybe not, if the money they "lost" in bank failures was lost real estate equity. Equity gets counted as money, though maybe it shouldn't be.

I keep trying to reduce it in my mind to hours of human labor. That's something that cannot be inflated. I think the essence of the credit crisis in one sense is that people have promised more years of work that can possibly exist. It starts with the guy who bids 100 years of income for a house. He's not going to live 100 more years. So that debt will not be paid. Now that it's clear many debts are bad, all debt is suspect. And lending stops.

#housing

« First        Comments 89 - 128 of 139       Last »     Search these comments

89   SP   2009 Feb 1, 4:48pm  

OO Says:
Sad news for chocolate fans. Scharffen Berger Berkeley will be closed and moved to Illinois. I hope Hershey’s is not going to shut it down eventually.

I was pretty outraged (at the bean counters in Hershey's) when I heard that on the news last week. The sad reality is that over time, one biz-school MBA reptile after another will chip away at the brand's quality - replacing suppliers, firing the original creators, "improving" manufacturing processes, etc. until there is nothing left but the carcass of a brand whose insides have been ripped out and restuffed with marketing bullshit. The final nail will be moving the factory to Mexico or China. Fucking Corporapists.

Hershey's might as well shut it down now - why the fuck will I want to pay extra for crappy corporate chocolate just because it has the Scharffen Berger name on it?

90   DinOR   2009 Feb 2, 12:32am  

"Has he done anything useful since, oh, 1978??"

Uh... no. Evidently the SB "entertainment" guys have a knack for dredging up people who's careers should have long ended years ago. Janet Jackson, ZZ Top, Aerosmith ( who boy ) amongst countless others.

If it was up to me the stage would be set for true, hidden American gems and purists like Dick Dale ( King of the Surf Guitar ) or Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels etc. I say bring on the folks that -started- a genre ( not the ones that ended it ) That or bring on some young guys that are starting up.

91   dan974   2009 Feb 2, 12:57am  

I didn't see any comments on the new forclosure data http://economybust.blogspot.com/2009/02/forclosures-data-for-california.html
Is this good or bad for us long term bubble sitters?

92   EBGuy   2009 Feb 2, 2:44am  

Sad news for chocolate fans. Scharffen Berger Berkeley will be closed and moved to Illinois.
News flash! Cost of doing business is high in the Bay Area. Companies moving production to flyover country. Who would have guessed?
FWIW, they (the evil Hershey empire) claim most of the Scharffen Berger products are already made in Illinois. That said, it was great place to run by as chocolate permeated the air... Sigh...

93   OO   2009 Feb 2, 3:42am  

I seriously doubt how big of a labor cost difference it is between Berkeley and Illinois, particularly in a business where cocoa beans (materials) makes the most difference. Scharffen Berger is good because the cocoa content is highly concentrated, unlike the high-fructose-corn-syrup Hershey's with very watered down cocoa content. People who pay 3x the price for a small can of cocoa expect that kind of quality. They are also one of very few undutched cocoa suppliers, if they take away that SKU, I am outta there.

You provide high quality, you charge a high price, and even in a depressionary situation, there will be people who care enough and make enough to afford these things, especially for these little luxury that are sold at discount outfits like Trader Joe's. I cannot afford a personal jet, but I sure can afford some kick-ass chocolates to brighten up my days. I honestly see a brand already on its dying path.

94   Peter P   2009 Feb 2, 3:48am  

Is this good or bad for us long term bubble sitters?

When more people are throwing money at the pit... you tell us if this is good or bad for the housing market in the medium to long term.

95   EBGuy   2009 Feb 2, 4:15am  

Scharffen Berger is good because the cocoa content is highly concentrated...
I believe that the Scharffen Berger folks are single-handly responsible for the cacao wars (that is, getting high end bar manufacturers to state cacao percentage on their labels). Quite frankly, they "spoiled" my taste buds, and I can no longer eat the cheap cr@p.

96   Patrick   2009 Feb 2, 5:37am  

European chocolate bars have had the cacao percentage on them for a long time, more than a decade at least.

I'm a bit worried about Scharffen Berger quality since Hershey's bought them, but I assume they know full well that people won't be fooled by any reduction in quality. I have a cup of Scharffen Berger cocoa each morning, no sugar. It's really great. Valrhona tastes rather burnt.

97   EBGuy   2009 Feb 2, 6:15am  

From 2006:
With little fanfare, American chocolate companies have begun labeling their bars according to cacao (pronounced KA-cow) content, the blend of cocoa solids and cocoa butter that makes chocolate — and makes it so irresistible. Already common in Europe, this system brings to the industry a uniformity praised by bakers and chocolate experts.
Interestingly enough: "Too much emphasis is being placed on the number," says Robert Steinberg, co-founder of Berkeley, Calif.-based Scharffen Berger Chocolate Maker.

98   justme   2009 Feb 2, 6:40am  

TOB, :-) (George likes his Kung-Pao chicken. George is getting upset!)

99   justme   2009 Feb 2, 7:00am  

I'm good with some Fruit+Nut as well, works for me.

100   frank649   2009 Feb 2, 7:14am  

Some drastic predictions -

http://mises.org/story/3318


These new times are not the 1930s when a few eggheads in Washington could set most prices and wages and gather the captains of industry to cobble together business cartels. The economic and financial world moves at the speed of light and is so diffuse that no political authority can act quickly enough to control it. The establishment is going down. This is another reason that all believers in freedom have reason to rejoice today.

Twelve to 18 months from now, it will be obvious that there is nothing the new administration can do to patch things up. Obama will be humbled by the market just as Bush and Clinton were before him, but this time the humbling will overwhelm any attempts to patch things up or put a spin on the much-needed upheaval.

I agree with everything except his prediction about gold. Something along the lines of Paypal would be far more likely. Some sort of self regulating system of credits would be ideal.

101   kewp   2009 Feb 2, 8:12am  

Some drastic predictions ...

Wow, over-leveraged douchebags with a million-plus in debt are finally going to figure out negative equity.

Going back to a gold standard will just make things worse. There were more bubbles and panics when we had hard currencies; the last 70 years have been remarkably stable.

The solution is we need to put caps on federal, business and consumer debt; and make sure what new debt is created is secured against something tangible. Including the capacity for future work.

102   Peter P   2009 Feb 2, 8:18am  

Bubbles are not bad or harmful. Overzealous policy reactions to bubbles are.

103   B.A.C.A.H.   2009 Feb 2, 8:37am  

Really I don't see any way out for us except to devalue the dollar. But our friends in other nations won't let us do that in the race to the bottom.

So what's a girl to do? We'll have to devalue the dollar vs. gold, implying a return to the gold standard.

But this won't be your father's gold standard, which kept the dollar strong. The purpose of new gold standard would be to keep the dollar weak.

104   kewp   2009 Feb 2, 8:39am  

Or we just let the global leveraged asset bubble collapse and deal with a few years of high unemployment until the market soaks up all the excess.

105   Peter P   2009 Feb 2, 8:43am  

Peter, are we back to these one liners again?

Don't you like them? :)

Really I don’t see any way out for us except to devalue the dollar.

Devalue against whom? It is all relative.

106   B.A.C.A.H.   2009 Feb 2, 8:49am  

Devalue against gold.

107   MST   2009 Feb 2, 11:15am  

we need to put caps on federal, business and consumer debt; and make sure what new debt is created is secured against something tangible

Damn, here I go again agreeing with 33% of what Kewp said. Must be bad Shahi Paneer.

So yeah, Federal debt cap. Don't we have one of those? You're going to have to Constitutionalize that to put it beyond the Congress Bozos who raise it every 15 minutes. As far as business and consumer debt, yep, we've got to stop backstopping the loans (notice the most recent "guarantees"?), so banks will do what banks used to do all the time: say NO! beause they wanted to be repaid. You might not notice, but those little traditional regional and local banks, the ones who haven't been out there securitizing every Tuesday night poker game IOU on the planet and have been lending based on, well, "equity" and "ability to repay," haven't been getting chewed up and spat out in the FDIC Friday Afternoon Massacres. Leave that to the big boys.

Back when I knew every banker in my home town by the name of their children's dolls, my hometown bank gave me a credit card with a line of $1,500. At the same time Citi had $14,000 in cards to me, Chase another $5,000, some other bank another $10,000, and yet another $3,500. I damn near could've bought the property I was living on for what the "Big" banks had out to me.

108   SP   2009 Feb 2, 2:20pm  

EBGuy Says:
Already common in Europe, this system brings to the industry a uniformity praised by bakers and chocolate experts.

The cacao content number is just a starting point. The rest of it depends on how it is blended and some arcane things like granularity and the quantity of froth as the chocolate is poured. I have no idea about the actual science here, but like EBGuy said, once you've had good chocolate, you can't go back to the corn-syrup infused dogshit that Hershey's peddles in their more pedestrian brands.

The sad part of this is that there was enough high-end business to maintain Scharffen Berger's Berkeley plant as a boutique factory - higher prices, smaller volumes - there are a enough people who will pay the premium for this small luxury. I suspect that the prime reason for Hershey to shut it down is that they want to take the brand "mainstream" - lower its cost-basis, and carpet-bomb the country with vast quantities of inferior chocolate with a premium name.

109   SP   2009 Feb 2, 2:25pm  

In partial atonement for my off-topic chocolate ranting... here is a thought that is relevant to the original thread topic...

Any ideas for the form of a barter system for labor-to-goods that could be built along the lines of a peer-to-peer network?

110   kewp   2009 Feb 2, 2:45pm  

Re:Cacao

I use raw organic cacao nibs in my smoothies. Highly recommended.

111   justme   2009 Feb 2, 3:51pm  

Not sure if this link will work,

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_10965922

but the merc has per-zipcode database of what fractions of mrtgages are underwater in silicon valley.

112   Peter P   2009 Feb 3, 1:16am  

one liners are the work of the devil.

I never knew you had such an high opinion of me. :)

114   justme   2009 Feb 3, 2:53am  

What are the units of that plot?

115   OO   2009 Feb 3, 4:14am  

Re: the mortgage below water list, I was surprised to find Colma there. I thought Colma was nothing but graveyards.

116   OO   2009 Feb 3, 4:24am  

OK, what is the plan B for chocolates when Scharffen Berger becomes Hershey's? Now that SB and JS are gone, are we supposed to support European chocolates now? I'd like to buy American if I can, unless they insist on shoveling down corn-syrup down my throat.

117   Peter P   2009 Feb 3, 6:31am  

What are the units of that plot?

Dollars per metric ton.

118   Peter P   2009 Feb 3, 6:35am  

I thought Colma was nothing but graveyards.

Perhaps they did not even perform the mirror-fogging test when they gave out those mortgages. :)

119   EBGuy   2009 Feb 3, 7:01am  

Zillow's report showed that 27 percent of Bay Area homeowners now have negative equity, meaning they owe more than their home is worth. That's a grim indicator, because being underwater, as the condition is also known, increases the likelihood of foreclosure.
I find the 27% number to be pretty astounding; it implies that more than 27% of homes with a mortgage have changed hands (or refied!) during the boom years. Complete story at sfgate.

120   kewp   2009 Feb 3, 7:48am  

Yeah, but what if you owe $500k on a house that is now worth $480k? I wonder how many edge cases are in those statistics.

I would think you would need to be at least 20-30% underwater before foreclosure made sense.

121   HeadSet   2009 Feb 3, 9:10am  

Now that SB and JS are gone, are we supposed to support European chocolates now?

I don't know about SB and JS (chains bought by Hershey?), but I do know about small chocolatiers. Can be expensive, but you may find it quite good if you like the darker stuff. I'm sure you have places like this http://www.cocoamill.com/index.html in or near your state, too.

122   HeadSet   2009 Feb 3, 9:19am  

Also, Hershey's sells some 40% cocoa bars. I gave some to an Aussie chocolate fanatic, although I practically had to force feed one to him. He ended up liking it quite well, despite the Hershey label. Have you tried the Hershey's 40%? Oddly enough, I can find it locally only at Rite Aid.

123   HeadSet   2009 Feb 3, 9:34am  

I thought Colma was nothing but graveyards.

Ah yes, the suicide loans.

124   PermaRenter   2009 Feb 3, 1:09pm  

Cupertino Flush With Cash In Down Economy

At a time when other cities are millions in the red, Cupertino has cash reserves in the neighborhood of $15 to 20 million. The city has no plans for layoffs and crime is down.

Property taxes did not take a hit because housing prices have dipped only five percent. Apple, which is based in Cupertino, posted huge profits last year. Large construction projects such as the Mary Avenue footbridge are done and off the books.

Mayor Orrin Mahoney credits smart investing, good planning and a little luck.

Nearby cities are not looking as good financially. Palo Alto is expected to have a nearly $6 million deficit, while Fremont is $11 million in the red. Milpitas, however, has a balanced budget.

125   PermaRenter   2009 Feb 3, 1:43pm  

Take the luxury home market, add a mortgage-credit crunch, a slumping stock market, collapsing consumer confidence and falling property values, and here's the result: The number of homes sold in California for at least $1 million plummeted 43 percent last year from 2007.

In Santa Clara County, million-dollar-plus sales fell by 34 percent to 3,055, but that was enough to rank the county No. 2 statewide. Only Los Angeles County had more such transactions, at 6,046, according to a report Tuesday from MDA DataQuick, which gathered the data from public records.

....

One in 16 California homes sold in 2008 sold for $1 million or more; in 2007 it was one in nine.

.....

Among the Bay Area enclaves that saw the highest number of $1 million-plus transactions last year were Hillsborough (274 sales, down from 384 in 2007), Cupertino (263, down from 396), Saratoga (260, down from 383), Menlo Park (258, down from 323) and Los Altos' 94024 ZIP code (204, down from 239).

126   PermaRenter   2009 Feb 3, 1:46pm  

Sons of migrant farmworkers co-found promising Silicon Valley tech startup
His parents were migrant farmworkers who worked the harvests of California and Washington state before wintering in their small hometown in rural Mexico. Bismarck Lepe, now 29, remembers how at age 5 he helped out in the strawberry fields.

"I was good at planting," he recalled. "I was very close to the ground."

"He brags about that all the time," muttered his 21-year-old brother Belsasar, known as Bel.

Today, Bismarck and Bel Lepe work marathon hours in the bright, clean quarters of their own Silicon Valley startup, with its own little fleet of electric-powered Razor scooters for zipping around Mountain View. Educated at Stanford University, seasoned at Google, these overachieving sons of the Latino laboring class are among the valley's more demographically improbable entrepreneurs. They are two of the three founders of Ooyala, a fast-growing company that in less than two years has built an impressive list of customers — Warner Bros., TV Guide, Armani — with its infrastructure technology for the booming trend in online video.

Ooyala means "cradle'' in the South Indian language of Telugu. The name reflects the founders' ambition for the company to cradle innovation in delivering and syndicating video content while leveraging the interactive nature of the Web to enhance advertising revenue.

127   OO   2009 Feb 3, 2:03pm  

Permarenter,

I actually drove by the townhome you were looking at on my way to dinner. Price still too high, but they look quite decent from a glance, and if you don't mind the buzz from De Anza, the location is very convenient, Indian, Chinese groceries, Trader Joe's all around and the largest Wholefoods in the Bay Area very close by.

The S.E. Asian restaurant, Layang Layang, that I went to is right across the street, it is probably one of the most authentic ones I've had in the Bay Area for Indonesian/Malaysian food. There's another very popular Japanese curry house across the street that we go to from time to time.

128   OO   2009 Feb 3, 2:11pm  

HeadSet,

thanks for the tips, I will go for a try. The only problem is, I am spoilt by 70% cocoa content :-)

Also, most chocolate companies no longer offer undutched cocoa powder, which is really a big shame. 95% of the anti-oxidant ingredients in cocoa, which in powder form as a drink offers a much higher anti-oxidant capacity than the usual suspects like grapes and green tea, is lost in the dutching process (alkalinazation). It is very difficult to find undutched cocoa powder out there, which was the reason that got me into Scharffen Berger. I have never seen Hershey's or any major brands offering undutched cocoa powder.

« First        Comments 89 - 128 of 139       Last »     Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions