patrick.net

Until you have grey hair, few people take you seriously. And by then, noone pays that much attention to you.

I have lots of grey hair already...

Ray W,

Yeah, I was born in 1959 too. But I didn't really "grow up in the 60's". I was an infant, toddler and grade schooler. I just don't seem to recall a whole lot of peace, love and dope? I read about Viet Nam in my weekly reader for crissakes! I wasn't even considered a "boomer" until I got back from the service in 1989. Huh? News to me! I'm not, (even if I wanted to join) and I don't believe they are accepting anything other than "conditional memberships" when they need your vote.

I kind of laugh because all the benefits of life they have are because of the boomers…their parents.

Ah yes, the benefits...

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html

not including SS liabilities.

Oh thank you sir, can I have another?

My parents were silent Generation, but my Dad still laughs evily whenever I decry the expected taxation rate in 2020...

newsfreak,

Well then I'm just plain sorry. All of the tied died T shirts in Berkley won't save you. They might consider you a "social member" but you will never break the "inner circle". Wrecking a car (unintentionally) that you bought and paid for by your self doesn't make for nearly as funny a boomer story where it was the old man's company car! Does that help put things in better perspective? For anyone?

Well never mind that boomer will get all of the old man’s money in the end anyway.

Is this really true? I keep hearing that the Boomers are going to inherit a fortune once the WWII generation starts to die off.

There are two things that puzzle me about this. First, the WWII generation is ALREADY dying off, and has been for the last 20-30 years at least.

Second, not everyone from the WWII generation is rich! Yeah, George Bush Sr. will probably leave a healhtly estate when he passes away, but what about some retired machinist in Toledo? THAT'S your typical WWII generation grandparent. Most Boomers aren't descended from wealthy east coast aristocrats, they are descended from people in Kansas City and Idaho who maybe own a modest tract home and an 8 year-old Buick.

Third, these estates will be distributed among several Boomers. Take my late grandmother. When she died, she left her modest, aging ranch house in suburban Chicago, which was probably valued around $125k. She had three kids, so each got roughly $40k. That's not a very big inheritance, certainly not enough to fund a Boomer's retirement!

Finally, who is to say that the Boomers will responsibly invest these inheritiances? Certainly not me! I bet a lot of them will take the check and buy a new Hummer, or maybe do what my mother did when she got a $10,000 gift from my grandmother in July, 1999 -- invest the entire amount in tech stocks! I told her not to do that, but she woudln't listen.

I have always believed that the idea that Boomers are going to inherit a bunch of money is just a myth.

Ray W,

So when all of the Gen x-ers and Gen-yer’s (whatever that is really supposed to mean) whine about the boomers I kind of laugh because all the benefits of life they have are because of the boomers…their parents.

A significant number of Xers, perhaps slightly over half, do not have Boomer parents, they have Silent Generation (or Eisenhower Era) parents. These are not Boomers, they share more in common with the GI generation. My parents fall into this category. It was during that generation, not the Boomers, that the average age at which women started having children started to rise and the average number of children per family started to fall.

I don't really join in on the Boomer trashing because I think it's a bit pointless. But I will say that, in general, I find the Boomers inexplicably most willing to take credit for any and everything regardless of whether they are in actual fact responsible. By contrast, my generation pretty much takes credit for nothing.

DinOR,

Yeah, I was born in 1959 too. But I didn’t really “grow up in the 60’s”. I was an infant, toddler and grade schooler.

Exactly, thank you. Boomers declaring their own generation's victories should probably first check to make sure their not, in fact, claiming credit for the previous generation's contributions.

Silent Gen was VERY different than Boomers. Boomers have more in common with X than Silent.

-their
+they're

Ray W,

I remember watching the White Sox on a 12" B&W TV, Gilligan's Island (after school) playing whiffle ball in the alley and getting in trouble for exchanging "play money" for real quarters at the laundromat. I'm not challenging your recollections it's just that I doubt that the "Time/Life" image of an execution was shown on TV. I don't even think they would broadcast that today. I had a happy (if not oblivious) childhood where my biggest problems were bullies and hiding "girlie" magazines from mom. Just my take.

@Randy H:

"I was only using 1494 to highlight the fact that accounting is not some kind of new-fangled distortion invented by those wishing to confound unfrozen cavemen."

I know exactly what you were saying -- I just wanted an excuse to say "chastity belt with one of those cool metal pee tubes". Sorry to involve you in my personal madness.

My own parents were sort of in between the Silent Gen and Boomers. My mom was born in 1944, and she's a pretty stereotypical 70's liberal. Interestingly, although her parents lived out east and had a great deal of $$$, she has lived in Chicago and worked as a nurse since the 60's and in that time has acquired the views and habits of a working-class Chicagoan, although she will deny vehemently deny this, as she still sees herself as someone with "good breeding." She has the lifestyle of a typical Boomer -- divorced, spends every cent she makes, etc. -- but the stereotypical views of a 1950's working-class Chicagoan, it's strange.

My dad was born in 1941, but he was the most Boomer-like of my parents in terms of his lifestyle (in the most important way of all, though, he was unlike the Boomers in that he was a great dad). He was sort of a 1950's version of a hippie, I guess you'd call it a "beatnik." My dad was too old for Woodstock and the Summer of Love, and he really regretted this. He spent the rest of his life trying to make up for lost time. When I was 12 he started dating this much younger chick who followed the Greatful Dead (her license plate read G DEAD) and began dealing pot on the side to the other cab drivers in town. He had this whole hydroponic garden in the bedroom of his house, and all of these books with titles like "THE HIGHEST QUALITY INDOOR AND OUTDOOR MARAJUANA GROWER'S GUIDE" He did stuff like that his whole life.

I love my parents, but I have always looked at their lives and pretty much tried to do the opposite of everything they did. So far, it's worked out. I remember joining the Boy Scouts as a kid becuase they seemed like the squarest organization imaginable. My parents were, predictably, opposed to the idea (the uniforms are like, para-millitary, man!) but somehow I knew that if my parents were made uncomfortable by them, the Boy Scouts must be doing something right.

My Dad used to laugh that evil laugh, until they started raising his Medicare monthly premiums, then he realized they were going to nick him too. Not so funny now.

By charging him a fraction for his own health care? How shocking!

Look again at that hockey-stick over the past 6 years on the debt graph. This has been incurred mainly by Bush's tax cuts (and military adventurism, but let's ignore that for now). While I've received a very generous share of these cuts, most of it goes to boomers who are in their peak earning years right now. We all know this can't last, and most of the reasonably well-heeled Gen-Xers would gladly accept increased taxes now to prevent crushingly burdensome taxes later.

The boomers are loading us up with debt and their retirement liabilities. While Asian CBs are buying some of this debt, demographics suggest that the majority of domestic holders are boomers.

Thus you're undertaxing yourselves now, shifting the resultant debt on the next generation and then collecting the payments in one of the greatest financial scams in history. All gen-X can do is save like crazy and wait for the earthquake. Oh, and try to vote the Republicans out of office.

Expected reply: "The Democrats won't be any better." Check the debt graph again. The chronology speaks for itself.

HARM,

Damn!

"Well, o.k then, son"

That is SO funny! There were older kids on my block too. Their parents were WW2 folks that were so trusting, so loving and so........ dumb. Before they knew it 18 years of solid upbringing and unwavering attention yielded zip-point-squat. For every kid on our block that got messed up in NAM there were ten that messed up their lives on the next block over. I think these trusting WW2 parents thought what their kids meant when they said they needed to "find themselves" was they were going to down to the river to use the rope swing!

Ray W,

All I said was I doubt they showed some poor guy getting his brains blown out at a time when there were only three channels on TV. Many of my friends are Nam Vets and I served 9 years active Navy and 4 in the reserves. I respect these guys. I just get tired when boomers bring up the most violent images possible to drum up support for whatever cause it is that they're currently working on.

Paying taxes is part of being part of society. People can’t and shouldn’t be able to opt out just because they don’t like it.

Death is part of being human. People can't and shouldn't be able to opt out just because they don't like it.

But why do we even prosecute murderers?

The Vietnam stuff only goes one way. Liberal Boomers who will forever be living in the Summer of 1968 bring up Vietnam whenever we go to war. To them, all wars are based on lies. Every war is a quagmire. Generals are all incompetent, American Soldiers are either violent savages (see, e.g. Abu Gharib) or poor, white-trash teens who were "forced" to join because, as we all know, it is impossible for a working-class person in this country to get ahead in life without joining the miltiary.

You never, ever see Boomers portraying Vietnam in a positive light, i.e. "we fought a vailiant battle against the evils of Communism for twelve years, if only we'd held on a while longer, South Vietnam might be like South Korea today," or "let's not make the mistake we made in Vietnam -- let's finish the job and stand firm this time," etc. A lot of people subscribe to the latter therory but it is seldom discussed in the liberal MSM.

Vietnam references are inevitably used by liberal Boomers, there is very little parity with respect to it.

Intersting historical facts:

Did you know that the man executed by the South Vietnamese offical was a Viet Cong officer who had just killed a South Vietnamese policeman... and his entire family, including WOMEN AND CHILDREN? In other words, the person who was shot in the head was a terrorist who had just murdered a bunch of civillians.

Did you know that the photographer who took that picture, Eddie Adams, later apologized to the South Vietnamese official, stating:

"The guy was a hero. America should be crying. I just hate to see him go this way, without people knowing anything about him."

Google Nguyen Ngoc Loan for more info.

Joe Schmoe,

I salute you! I have so many friends that had to find a way to get through childhood in spite of their parents. That's part of the reason I get so upset when some of my friends talk about smoking dope in their teen/college years like it was some kind of birthright. In most states it's still illegal and a bad idea besides. Other than a few jazz musicians and a handful of artists there has been NO benefit! I like jazz as much as the next Chicagoan but Billy Preston just died (after like a year in a coma) pffft, yeah, drugs. It sounds like your folks were moderates in that regard but I just couldn't see my daughters growing up in an environment where pot (or other drugs) were the norm. What's the point?

Joe Schmoe,

The reason I doubt they showed it on TV was b/c I have NEVER seen any additional footage. It's possible they flashed a still of it up on screen but, I don't know. I've seen it many times in my adulthood and it's become the poster child event for that war but I don't know that there was anything more than photograph. Couldn't say.

Ray W-

Forgive me. I apologize and stand corrected.

DinOR,

A lot of Gen-X'ers have stories like mine. A lot. And if it's not drugs, it's divorce, infidelity, or just plain selfishness and neglect.

You are one of the few (by birth, anyway) Boomers who understands this. You seem like a good parent. Boomers generally either (a) don't give a care about the kids; or (b) are creepy Stepford carictures of "good" parents (setting up "play dates" and constantly driving junior to "activities")

You seem like an old-school good parent and I really respect you for it.

Joe Schmoe,

Hey thanks! I appreciate that. I somehow instinctively knew that this "be candid with your kids about your own drug use" was a load of garbage. Firstly, this "program" works off the assumption that you (as a parent) used drugs. Bad idea. Secondly (and Surfer X knows this from previous posts) that my old man's "drug lecture" was short and sweet. "If I find out you's guys has been using dope you better pray da cops get to ya' before I do. Because if I catch ya' first, I'll fucking kill ya'". End of lecture. Is it o.k if we go back to playing whiffle ball in the alley now pops? The old man was crazy. Or was he?

Incredible. We've had another long Boomer-focused debate and not one post from Surfer-X so far!

Surfer-X, where are you?

Have mom and pop hardware stores really been driven out of business by the Home Depots of the world? The True Value the Ace Hardware in my neighborhood seem to be doing all right. I always go there first becuase it is much easier to go to the small store when you just want to pick up some nails or have some keys made. You can be in and out in less than five minutes. At Home Depot you have to negotiate the entire warehouse just to find a lousy screw, and if you can't find something right away it is almost impossible to find an orange-aproned salesperson to help, they are always surrounded by five other customers with questions far more complex than yours.

Jon,

"Hi, my name is 'Divorced busted-ass home Statistic. Have we met?"

Damn!

Joe Schmoe Says:
Intersting historical facts:

Google Nguyen Ngoc Loan for more info.

Joe, thank you for defending truth against groundless, emotional, feeling-based accusations from ignorant liberals. These mother fuckers want to enjoy everything without the responsibility of defending their own liberty using their own blood. Sooner or later, the men who will fight will be bred OUT OF the system and the country will crumble. Like the Roman Empire: No one was left to fight the barbarian incursions.

RE: All this intergenerational sniping.

The notions of "Generations" is convenient, easy to get one's brain around, and somehow comforting as a point of identity. That said, the entire concept is of very limited usefulness. People are being born all the time, continuously, without regard for these cultural lines of demarcation.

Culture is extremely dynamic, not static. For example, the average age at which women have their first child has been rising dramatically since WWII. Wouldn't this compress the generations? Or do the generations stay the same and the "generation gap" changes? Isn't the generation gap the thing that started the entire thinking in generational terms in the first place?

Another point is that not all areas of the country are "at the same stage" or "of the same mindset" at any given time. When I grew up in rural Ohio in the 70s-80s it was more akin to the 50s in other places of the country. Not everywhere in the US experienced the notorious 60s equally; in fact our shared vision of the 60s was not the norm geographically, only in particular areas. Of course it affected everyone everywhere, but I assure you there are still parts of rural Ohio that do a pretty good job of denying the 60s ever happened. So, can there even be "Boomers" from these areas? Or, if we define Boomers as a certain age, then does it really mean anything much at all?

Look at how quickly discussions devolve into polarizing partisanship whenever Generational this or that is injected. It's really no different than saying "Everyone from the South is Racist" or "Everyone from CA is a flake". It's quite ridiculous.

Newsfreak,

I know what you mean -- about kids AND ACE Hardware!

JH,

don't be bitter, many immigrant Asian families prop each other onto flood plains at an inflated price tag, literally.

SFWoman is asking who are buying these flood plain properties. Plenty of recent Chinese immigrants who got money from their parents as downpayment. Nature works out in a magical way, doesn't it? Foster City, Redwood Shores, with all the glimmering new buildings and relatively new housing subdivisions, are immigrant magnets. Most new comers from other continents are not aware of the flooding, landslide or earthquake risks inherent in this area, and I can pretty confidently tell you 90% of them buy a property without checking out the topology map, although most of them are armed with an advanced degree in science studies. Ironic, isn't it?

Specific floodplain disclosure? Nil, zip, zilch, nada. There are some generic boiler plate disclosure about this and that, I wonder if anyone has the patience to go through them in detail.

To be fair to the buyers, they don't have the legal knowledge to decipher the convoluted "disclosure" or intimate geological knowledge to understand which area is flood prone. Nor should they, that is the job of the realty agents!

LILLL,

My two cents? Let the guy with the Hummer slide. Right now he's your client. If he says RE will go up forever, then it will (as long as his check clears). This kind of gets back to what we were talking about several threads back as to why guys like me never seem to have much of a political opinion. Why? B/c they are luxuries we can ill afford. Besides, what's to be gained? Now if Mr. Bigshot in his Hummer bounces a check to you, well then feel free to give him both barrels! Rather, I think you should be working him for referrals!

You know Mr. H2 I'm pretty discriminating with whom I do business with and I've gotta say that the caliber of work you and crew do really shows off my pieces in the best possible light! As a matter of fact I'm adding capacity as we speak so if there are builders that are in your league I'd love to be able to show them! Can you think of a few firms that deliver the same quality of product you do? I mean, you don't have to scramble through your palm pilot this minute just when you think of it.

But you have to follow through with a TIME! Otherwise it's just pleasant conversation. If he didn't say no it must be a yes, right? "Would it be alright if we touch base on....... Tuesday?" "Great!" Don't necessarily ask Mr. H2 out of the gate. Practice on some of your smaller clients first til you get the hang of it. My 2 cents.

He is a property manager and works for his Dad. His dad is totally ripping him off as he only makes 40K a year! Yes, 40K! We both agree that he should be making double or even triple that amount.

Not necessarily. Of course I don't know the specifics of his particular situation, but many property managers get free rent & utilities in lieu of full market-rate salary, which naturally sweetens the deal considerably.

Sorry guys, need to go OT. (I came to this country only 10 years ago, so I don't have much clue about the boomers issue.)

Isn't the increase in money supply the primary reason for inflation ? So Fed is supposedly fighting the inflation they themselves created. I think they will raise interest rates, and keep this .25 at a time policy intact. It's politically very safe strategy. They give all these warnings to make sure markets are prepared for it.

In the background, they will keep the money supply growing. That way there will be enough liquidity to keep the assets inflated, and prevent depression.

So they will try to have their cake and eat it too. Fed will be PERCEIVED as strong and willing to keep the inflation in check, there by protecteing the USD. It's a tightrope walk. Although, longer term, this does not sound like viable, as it cannot continue forever. But who cares about long term ? The next Fed boss, the next administration will worry about that. Let's first get through the next quarter, the next year and the next election.

@To BA Or Not To BA,

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes... and maybe... yes!

We had serveral threads on this very subject back in April. You may want to look these up in the Archives:

ZIRP, Global Imbalances, and Home Prices
Inflation and Interest Rates (and the dollar)
The Global Property Boom: Danger and Delusion
Housing Bubble Pre-Flight Checklist

Foster City, Redwood Shores, with all the glimmering new buildings and relatively new housing subdivisions, are immigrant magnets.

Redwood Shores? I just do not know why they have so many powerlines there. I will NOT live under powerlines for free.

My biggest complaint about some boomers including my father is that they need to tune into reality with regards to how interesting / difficult things have become. I think trying to make it today is considerably more difficult that in times past.

What do you mean by "making it"? There are always next lives. Don't worry.

Forgive my straying from the topic at hand. I am compelled by the muse to recite some housing bubble Haikus in joie de vivre and merriment:

$900K Nervous Breakdown:

God, I’m losing it.
I’m Broke. Ha, ha! You call that
Piece of shit a house?

$900K-Mortgage Trailer Trash:

One house, three kids, two
jobs, wife left, repo’d Hummer,
no equity…Shit!

The Devil is My Realtor:

Sold my soul; bought a
house. My plastic soul looks good
in a McMansion.

Sassy Realtor Lookin’ for a Mate:

Fat temptress; brass balls.
Tall. Looks great bra-less. Lost her
ass in real estate.

TBAONTBA,

Definitely read the threads HARM pointed out.

The answer is not necessarily yes yes yes, though it probably is yes.

There are two main theories:

- Monetary Theory
- Keynesian (or rather neokeynseian) Theory.

Monetary theory has been growing in popularity since the stagflation of the 70s (which wasn't just in the US but in every industrial western country). Monetary theory states what you said: inflation simply equals increases in the aggregate money supply.

I happen to think Monetary theory is an oversimplification and is fundamentally flawed. Most popular Monetarists are, by the way, people who are heavily vested in seeing a return of a commodity based currency, like a gold-standard. The remainder are usually people who think fiat currency is a bad thing -- some for good, logical reasons, others for completely inane conspiracy paranoia.

Neo-Keynesian Theory is probably more accurate. It is a more complicated model that involves aggregate supply, aggregate demand and the money supply. This model accomodates the existence of "normal inflation", which is the biggest shortcoming of the Monetary theory. If there is real GDP growth then there must be some inflation, or else there will be structural deflation, which prevents GDP growth. Keynesian theory allows for this, and also does a lot to explain the differences between short-term temporary shocks and long-term equilibrium.

But there's a problem with Keynes; it doesn't explain unemployment properly. Under Keynesian theory stagflation cannot occur. But it did. Thus the return of Monetary Theory after the 70s.

There are a few other theories, none of which really have held up too well. The most notorious is Supply-Side economics, which was pretty heavily discredited after the 80s but still has some true believes. In this model money supply increases are not directly responsible for any inflation, only aggregate supply & demand.

The problem is, supply side theory seems to have worked very well to end the Stagflation of the late 70s early 80s, when the Fed first tightened to kill "lack of confidence" sources of inflation, then flooded liquidity. Both Monetary and Keynesian theory would predict this should cause more inflation, but it in fact was followed by a long period of the lowest inflation in 30 years.

LILLL,

Negotiating salaries is kind of alien to me b/c I've usually worked on a commission only basis? My advice though to your friend (take w/many grains of salt) is simply to threaten to walk, and mean it! From what you describe they are well qualified to work for the competition. I don't want to get involved in their family issues but an abusive relationship is an abusive relationship! Life's too short.

I should have mentioned, those involved in the foreign currency exchange business (or hedge funds investing in that market) would argue the Supply Side economics is not only correct, but irrefutable. They use international floating currency rates as empirical evidence, which is reasonably convincing.